2020 Patriots Season:
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Next Up: at Chargers
Pick Results: NE: 91.2% at LAC: 8.8%

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Dec 6th

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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Not with that defense they wouldn't.

The Brady Pats in 08 would probably make the playoffs - Cassel was responsible for the Colts loss so there's the 1 extra win - but then more than likely get truck stomped in the playoffs.
Brady would've won the home game vs the Jesters too.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Brady would've won the home game vs the Jesters too.
That was one of Cassel's best games for us. 400 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT and had a 103 passer rating in that game. Game tying TD pass as time expired. And 62 yards rushing.
The defense also gave up 34 points. To the Jest. That's how bad they were. Doubt the outcome is different if Brady is there.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
The oft reported Patriots mantra that it is better to leave or cut a player a year too early rather an year too late is a theme here...

The Brady I saw in '18 & '19 was not the same Brady that we saw for all the time previous, people will claim lack of talent.. but for years we saw Brady make chicken salad out of chicken crap, so the lack of talent is BS...
Oh really? When did we see that?
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
Or for nostalgia.

Brady had inferior talent to work with in 06 and 13 and maybe 09 after Moss left - and he still looked a lot better than he did last year.
To quote you: " Numbers don't lie, even if you don't like what they're saying." Well, you're not going to like this:

If you think Brady "looked a lot better" in 2006 than he did last year, then you either didn't watch 2006 or didn't watch last year. In 2006, Brady had 3,529 yards with 24 TDs against 12 INTs, 87.9 rating. In 2019, he had 4,057 yards, 24 TD's against 8 INT's, 88.0 rating. At best that's a wash, not a situation where he "looked a lot better" in 2006.

Brady looked better in 2009 than in 2019 but you are conveniently forgetting that in 2009, Brady had Randy Moss for 16 games (Moss was traded away in 2010, not 2009 like you claim) and Wes Welker for 14 games. They combined for 2,5000 receiving yards.

Brady may have looked marginally better in 2013 than 2019, but I just don't see how that was with "inferior talent". The Edelman injury alone makes a huge difference. And after Edelman, I'd take Amendola and Dobson over any 2 WR's that finished the season for NE in 2019.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
To quote you: " Numbers don't lie, even if you don't like what they're saying." Well, you're not going to like this:

If you think Brady "looked a lot better" in 2006 than he did last year, then you either didn't watch 2006 or didn't watch last year. In 2006, Brady had 3,529 yards with 24 TDs against 12 INTs, 87.9 rating. In 2019, he had 4,057 yards, 24 TD's against 8 INT's, 88.0 rating. At best that's a wash, not a situation where he "looked a lot better" in 2006.

Brady looked better in 2009 than in 2019 but you forgetting that in 2009, Brady had Randy Moss for 16 games (Moss was traded away in 2010) and Wes Welker for 14 games. They combined for 2,5000 receiving yards.

Brady may have looked marginally better in 2013 than 2019, but I just don't see how that was with "inferior talent". The Edelman injury alone makes a huge difference. And after Edelman, I'd take Amendola and Dobson over any 2 WR's that finished the season for NE in 2019.

You're right it was the start of 2010 when Moss was traded. So I'll exclude that one below.

Yards per attempt is a good barometer of a passing game.
2006 - 6.8 - no receivers over 800 yards. Worse talent than this year and it was better than 2019's as you see below.
2013 - 6.9. other than Edelman - Collie, Boyce, Hooman, Dropson were some of the "talent" Brady had. Still looked better than 2019.

2019 - 6.6. Worst since 2002.

Those other years I didn't see Brady miss receivers that did get separation like I saw this year. And the attitude. Maybe if he worked with his new receivers things would have gone better for the offense.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
You're right it was the start of 2010 when Moss was traded. So I'll exclude that one below.

Yards per attempt is a good barometer of a passing game.
No, it kinda really isn't. As is well established, Brady is coached to just throw away the football when no one is open. "No negative plays." He did that all year long in 2019. It is the smart thing to do even though it hurts the YPA stat.
2006 - 6.8 - no receivers over 800 yards. Worse talent than this year and it was better than 2019's as you see below.
2013 - 6.9. other than Edelman - Collie, Boyce, Hooman, Dropson were some of the "talent" Brady had. Still looked better than 2019.
When comparing 2013 and 2019: After Edelman, who was there both years (but badly injured in 2019), I'd take Amendola and Dobson over any 2 WR's that finished the season for NE in 2019.
2019 - 6.6. Worst since 2002.

Those other years I didn't see Brady miss receivers that did get separation like I saw this year. And the attitude. Maybe if he worked with his new receivers things would have gone better for the offense.
Seriously. You're just embarrassing yourself here. You say "Brady looked a lot better" in 2006 and 2013 than he did in 2019. And what do you give us as your smoking gun evidence? 2/10th of a yard better YPA? Really? Really..??

If that's all you have, then you have nothing.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
No, it kinda really isn't. As is well established, Brady is coached to just throw away the football when no one is open. "No negative plays." He did that all year long in 2019. It is the smart thing to do even though it hurts the YPA stat.
When comparing 2013 and 2019: After Edelman, who was there both years (but badly injured in 2019), I'd take Amendola and Dobson over any 2 WR's that finished the season for NE in 2019.
Seriously. You're just embarrassing yourself here. You say "Brady looked a lot better" in 2006 and 2013 than he did in 2019. And what do you give us as your smoking gun evidence? 2/10th of a yard better YPA? Really? Really..??

If that's all you have, then you have nothing.

Yes he did look a lot better then with less. I saw it myself, and I already explained why.

That's also incorrect that throwing the ball away hurts YPA because YPA's is a large sample size stat and a measurement of how effective the passing offense is. His YPA dropped one full yard per attempt from 2018 to 2019. Huh I wonder why.

The offense was terrible in 2019 and so was Brady. I love the GOAT but I'm objective enough to admit it when I see it.
 

DarrylS

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Oh really? When did we see that?

On most games he played for the NEP.. low throws, overthrows.. from my comfy couch he was not himself... there is a myriad of evidence. There were reports of injuries last year, so much so he did not throw all that much when they practiced after TC...

It is easy to blame the receivers, but as mentioned there were years for Tom in NE when he had less talent and excelled..
 
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patsfanincleveland

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Surprised he didn't have enough after Billy's botch job in the 2017 Super Bowl. Brady goes off for 500+ yards yet was backed up by the worst defensive game plan (including the inexcusable benching of Malcom Butler). And it's not like the D was terrible going into that game.

What's the excuse the next year when the offense only scored 13 points in the Super Bowl?

Is that loss on Brady?
 

PatsBoy12

Pro Bowl Player
On most games he played for the NEP.. low throws, overthrows.. from my comfy couch he was not himself... there is a myriad of evidence. There were reports of injuries last year, so much so he did not throw all that much when they practiced after TC...

It is easy to blame the receivers, but as mentioned there were years for Tom in NE when he had less talent and excelled..
There was never a season when Brady had less talent than '19. Hint: don't just consider the receivers. Look at the complete offensive roster.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
What's the excuse the next year when the offense only scored 13 points in the Super Bowl?

Is that loss on Brady?
I believe you mean "win" on Brady...But yeah he shares the blame (with Bill/Skippy/Gostkowski) for the low score...That first-quarter INT meant for Hogan when Edelman was Wide Open in the middle was inexcusable, for example...That's at least 3 points right there if Gostkowski doesn't blow that one too...
 

patsfanincleveland

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I believe you mean "win" on Brady...But yeah he shares the blame (with Bill/Skippy) for the low score...That first-quarter INT meant for Hogan when Edelman was Wide Open in the middle was inexcusable, for example...

Note the irony of the 3 point defensive masterpiece.

Funny how things can even out when you look at the entire picture.

What we really need is Andy Johnson for the final word.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
All you have is 2/10ths of a yard lower YPA to support the thesis that he "looked a lot better with less."

You have nothing.
Nope. Watched enough to know when a QB is playing well and when he isn’t. YPA is useful and so is the eye test.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
Nope. Watched enough to know when a QB is playing well and when he isn’t. YPA is useful and so is the eye test.
You couldn't even remember what year Randy Moss left the team, but we are supposed to rely on your memory of the "eye test" for games from 14 years ago?? LOL!!

You have nothing to support your thesis.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
You couldn't even remember what year Randy Moss left the team, but we are supposed to rely on your memory of the "eye test" for games from 14 years ago?? LOL!!

You have nothing to support your thesis.

Oh noes I was one year off how awful :rofl: I’ve seen him play dude not my problem if you don’t like my observations.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
Oh noes I was one year off how awful :rofl: I’ve seen him play dude not my problem if you don’t like my observations.
Well, when the whole point you were making is that Brady's receivers in 2009 were worse than what he had in 2019, then yeah, it kinda matters that you were "one year off".

But we are supposed to trust you memory for your "eye test" regarding games played 14 years ago. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

TommyD4207

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
That was one of Cassel's best games for us. 400 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT and had a 103 passer rating in that game. Game tying TD pass as time expired. And 62 yards rushing.
The defense also gave up 34 points. To the Jest. That's how bad they were. Doubt the outcome is different if Brady is there.
That throw to Moss is still one of the best clutch throws I've ever seen.
 
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