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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BobDigital, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Scenario #2, aka the Best Case scenario:

    1/32 - OT Dalton Risner; by far the most versatile of the top linemen and an immediate game-day active as the super-sub & member of the short-yardage package, similar in a way to Solder in 2011.

    2/45 - N'Keal Harry; if Arizona doesn't take him at 33, then would anyone really be surprised if he were still available here? I would like the trade-up a helluva lot more if it was used for Harry instead of used for JoeSlo Willies.

    3/77 - Chase Winovich

    3/87 - TE Dawson Knox; I mean, does this one really need any further explanation?

    3/101 - S Chauncey Gardner Johnson or Armani Hooker; I've always seen our need for quality youth at Safety to be greater than that at CB, and both players represent fantastic value here.

    4/118 - C/G(/LT?) Mike Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>T-Rex Jr Jr.

    4/133 - CB Armani Oruwariye; similar body type and game as JoeSlo, except that he runs better & isn't grabby in coverage. Much, MUCH better value here than JoeSlo was at #45.

    5/159 - DE Charles Omenihu; the 1st-down/short-yardage complement at DE to Winovich as the 3rd-down/long-distance DE, and also one of the Best Players Available Regardless of Position.

    5/167 (No trade-up!) - WR Darius Slayton; we need more than one new WR, and he's one of the best remaining. He also has the one thing that Harry doesn't have: superior straight-line speed.

    (If Bill hadn't thrown away #204 for Johnny Badmostly, then I would've used that pick for DT Dontavious Russell, or for Byron Coward if you insist.

    7/246 - QB Tyree Jackson; here's your QB. He's also one of the Best Players Available Regardless of Position, and a Much MUCH better value here than Kevin O'Connell Jr was at 133.

    7/252 - LB Jamal Davis; freshman LB-to-senior DE with the twitchiness to be trained to return to LB as a Van Noy understudy.

    Scenario #3, as if Arizona did choose Henry at 33 after we chose Risner at 32, to follow...
     
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  2. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Scenario #3 - Bill takes Risner at 32, Arizona picks Harry at 33, and Bill does Not trade 56 & 101 for 45; he instead trades 56 to KC for 61 & 167:

    1/32 - OT Dalton Risner; he Automatically becomes our 6th-best lineman with practically unprecedented 5-Position versatility. Perhaps Bill indeed was just a shade too early pulling the WR lever in the first round...especially because he could have as a consolation prize at #61:

    2/61 - WR Terry McLaurin; he checks off a lot of boxes on the list of traits Bill seeks at the position. He would've had a great opportunity here to become our 2nd-most dynamic playmaker after Minitron; and while he was learning on the job, he also would've vied for a spot on one or more of the Big 4 STs units.

    3/77 - RDE Chase Winovich

    3/87 - TE Dawson Knox; bypassing the best available player at a position where he could easily have become #1 on his team's depth chart in favor of somebody who, however skillful he might be, will begin the season no better than #4 on his position's depth chart (barring injuries) makes No Feckin Sense Whatsoever.

    3/97 - Safety Chauncey the Gardner Johnson or Safety Armani the well-dressed Hooker; 2019 is the 6th anniversary of the last draft in which Bill selected a Safety of consequence. It's time to give his geezers a couple of talented yutes to groom.

    3/101 - QB Ryan Finley; I feel that he would've had a better chance to be useful here than Stidham will have, and because I have already filled Each and Every One of my Days 1 & 2 needs, I can afford to gamble on a tall, cerebral QB out-performing his traits.

    4/118 - CB Armani Oruwariye; I won't know whether to laugh or cry if he becomes more in-demand after his rookie contract expires than JoeSlo (I like SloJuan too) becomes.

    4/134 - OL Mike Jordan; sorry not sorry, but 31-1/4" arms is a Deal-Breaker. Jordan (and Dalton Risner) is what a Real Offensive Lineman looks like.

    5/159 - DE Charles Omenihu; he could've been the Ying to Wino's Yang.

    5/167 - WR Darius Slayton; with McLaurin's & his additions, speed on the outside shouldn't have been as much of an issue now...although having a Mr Inside such as Kelvin Harmon or Travis Fulgham to complement Mr Outside McLaurin wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

    7/246 - OLB Jamal Davis; we still need youth & athleticism at LB. He also might've been able to provide some occasional juice on 3rd down while he learned to eventually transition back to more of an off-the-LOS role here.

    7/252 - QB Tyree Jackson, "TE" Caleb Wilson & Big Back Alex Barnes on offense; and 3-tech DTs Gerald Willis & Byron Coward (if available) on defense are all worthy options here; and except for perhaps Jackson they all still have chances to fill holes in the roster. Jackson's athletic ability might be too intriguing to overlook, however.
     
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    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  3. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    Reading over CPT Stone’s scenario #3–the one that has Arizona nabbing Harry at 33, which the ASU receiver says the Cardinals promised him—I have to say he’s our genius resident curmudgeon.

    I am likewise committed to Dalton Risner at 32. Read about his leadership and performance at the Senior Bowl.

    Watching Joejuan Williams’s 40 at the Combine is painful. And his Pro day improvement wasn’t as dramatic as I was told: 4.66 to 4.59. However his top play in the SEC makes me accept him at 45, though the logic of not trading up is obvious. Doing the deal to trade back from 56 sounds even better.

    Here, again thanks to CS, i’m reminded the Rams did a deal with the Chiefs for 61 and 167. Trading up for Joejuan likely cost us an opportunity for going after a decent TE like Sternberger.

    My only quibble is that Dawson Knox was a project (at an area of need), but Damien Harris will immediately be part of a two-pronged running attack. The Patriots obviously have reservations about the durability of Sony Michel, their starting RB. I share this concern.

    The earlier suggestion of Tyree Jackson as both a back-up QB and TE is brilliant. Something Belichick wishes he had thought of.

    It’s fruitless but _fun_ to do a “what-if” draft redo. I plan on doing one late May.

    Almost every year CPT Stone (as we did it in the Army) makes a cogent criticism or two of a Patriots draft-day trade. The talking head wisdom of Belichick’s smart wheeling and dealing during the draft is rarely looked at critically, except by Mike Reiss and our own CS.

    If Joejuan Willigetthereintime? Williams is the player that the tingle going up Belichick’s leg is telling him, then this is a home run haul.

    I had a bad dream last night, though. Free agent Emanuel Hall, now of the Bears, formerly of Missouri, beats Joeslow deep down the left sideline in a key play in next year’s Super Bowl.

    Both are 6’2”. But at the Combine Hall ran a 4.39 and had the highest vertical of all the WRs. Speed kills, Bill.

    The fact Emanuel Hall wasn’t drafted is a big surprise.

    It’ll look Tavon Wilsonesque, another former second-round tingle that went up Bill’s leg.
     
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    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  4. SBLIII

    SBLIII In the Starting Line-Up

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    While his 40 time is not good, he makes up for it with his short area quickness.
     
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  5. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    No doubt, 4.07 shuttle & 6.92 3-cone (pro day) are VG times to go along with 17 reps, 36 vertical & 127 broad.

    *JoeJuan Williams, Vanderbilt, CB, 2019 Draft Scout, DraftScout.com/NFL Draft Scout

    Still...I have to wonder how he is going to keep up with outside receivers who are able to avoid the jam and start running downfield without always getting deep help...
    So my question regarding this pick will always be, until/unless shown otherwise, is it really worth it to sacrifice #101 overall and with it the opportunity to acquire another solid prospect in order to jump ahead of Who-Knows-Who (the same ghosts that Gettleman saw?) and choose a CB who might never be able to lock down his side of the field?
    My answer, until further notice, is No.
     
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  6. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    If it makes you feel any better, Hall has all of 3 catches for 22 yards against Vanderbilt. I'll try to cut some gifs of the matchup tomorrow -- I don't have the notes from film study, and today is mother's day, so I'm busy with family obligations. Interesting matchup.
     
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  7. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I scrubbed through the gameplay I could find from the Missouri vs Vanderbilt game. Unfortunately, I couldn't get all-22, and on a number of snaps Williams and Hall left the screen stride for stride (presumably Williams had tight enough coverage to discourage deep pass attempts). It looks like the defensive game plan was to play all the corners off 8 - 10 yards in order to prevent deep shots. As a result, Missouri ran the ball a lot and took easy, underneath passes all game, with a few opportunistic deep passes mixed in when advantageous. It reminded me of a Patriots gameplan. Pretty smart.

    Here Williams is beaten for one of the two catches he gave up all game. He's playing way off, per coaching (my assumption since every corner did it almost all game, except for red zone, where they let Williams press and he was lockdown). Hall doesn't even have to do anything special for an easy slant and first down. Tough to fault Williams too much here, although I suppose he could have broken to the ball a step earlier. Either way, it's not a big deal.





    Here is the second (and only other) catch Williams gave up in the game. On this rep I would have liked to see Williams press, but again it may have been a coaching decision based on the overall alignment and depth of all the corners throughout the game. He's a half-step late on his break, but still forces a tight catch and makes an immediate tackle, only allowing 9 yards. With a jam or a quicker backpedal -- which he displayed numerous other times in this same game -- he probably prevents the catch. I can live with giving up 2 catches for 20 yards to the other team's #1 receiver, especially one who led the SEC in yards per catch for two straight years.

     
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  8. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    I do like the way he closed on the receiver and tackled him immediately; fast & decisive.

    I wonder if he played at 210 lbs all season, because he doesn't quite look like it here; maybe his height is just stretching out his weight.
     
  9. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Yes, he led the SEC in solo tackles by a corner for a reason. He'll stick his nose in against the run, or take down a receiver after a catch. He's not shying away from contact.

    Moss looked similar. So tall and slender that it was hard to believe that he was over 200 pounds. Some people just carry weight differently, I guess.

    Even Revis got beat during his all pro season. Only giving up 20 yards in a game on two quick hitter, underneath throws is pretty impressive, even though with cleaner technique he may have prevented either catch, or both. I'm pretty bullish on his prospects.
     
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  10. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    If I were facing the Pats, I’d try to get a speed mismatch with Williams. Something as simple as a mesh route.

    He’s no doubt quick and sudden with unusual length and is very coachable with the Eye of the Tiger look. But running any appreciable distance might get him—and us—in trouble.

    I was on record with my doubts of Jordan Richards’s speed. The Stanford safety had the angle but was clearly beaten in the 2014 Rose Bowl by Jeremy Langford, the Michigan State RB, for a TD.

    I can’t help but think similar thoughts with the guy Cap’n Stone calls Joeslow.
     
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  11. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    He's going to need help over the top on the longer post-type of routes, and he absolutely needs to learn to stop being so grabby.

    I really, Really wish that Bill had been more patient by waiting for him at #56 and not throwing away #101 for him. That pick could've been used to draft one of several good players still available then. Same as his throwing-away last year of #117, which I would've likely used to take 3-Tech (and local dude) Maurice Hurst, for the thoroughly-unworthy little Duke (but Not of Dorchester) Dawson.

    I recently saw something from the Pats Local News sidebar that claimed Bill was prepared to select SloJuan at #32 if Harry had not been available...Frightening...
     
  12. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

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    With Winovich rushing the passer QBs wont have more than 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. No big deal that JoeJaun doesn't have long speed. ;)

    I'm willing to give BB the benefit of the doubt on this one for now.

    Also Tyree Jackson as a late round developmental prospect at TE in this Draft class is a no brainer :). How is it that all of the NFL scouts, GMs and coaches are blind to the infinite wisdom of armchair draft nicks.
     
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  13. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Won't be shocked if JoeJuan ends up at safety. He's got the size and can tackle. Kind of like
    McCourty. Maybe, SS instead of FS
     
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