Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal" [merged]

[TedyB54]

Something I've always been curious about, just wondering if someone has the basis for why penalties are sometimes "half the distance to the goal".

For example, if a team is at the opponents 8 yard line and the defense commits a 5 yard offsides penalty, the ball would get moved to the 3. However, if a defender decided to take a swipe at a QBs head at that same 8 yard line, it only ends up as a 4 yard penalty even though the infraction is much worse.

Seems to me that the ball should be marked off as far as possible for the yardage of the penalty until it gets to the 1 yard line.

Any idea as to why it's not done that way?


Thanks.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

Something I've always been curious about, just wondering if someone has the basis for why penalties are sometimes "half the distance to the goal".

For example, if a team is at the opponents 8 yard line and the defense commits a 5 yard offsides penalty, the ball would get moved to the 3. However, if a defender decided to take a swipe at a QBs head at that same 8 yard line, it only ends up as a 4 yard penalty even though the infraction is much worse.

Seems to me that the ball should be marked off as far as possible for the yardage of the penalty until it gets to the 1 yard line.

Any idea as to why it's not done that way?


Thanks.

You're incorrect; a 5 yard penalty from the 8 yard line is actually marked off as half the distance to the goal and would be spotted on the 4 yard line.

Seems like a reasonable rule to me; your opinion may vary.

 

[TedyB54]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

You're incorrect; a 5 yard penalty from the 8 yard line is actually marked off as half the distance to the goal and would be spotted on the 4 yard line.

Seems like a reasonable rule to me; your opinion may vary.

So, where on the field do they start marking half the distance for penalties. Is it for anything inside the 10?

 

[SaCaCh]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

I believe the rule is if the penalty yardage carries into the goal it is then halved.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

So, where on the field do they start marking half the distance for penalties. Is it for anything inside the 10?

The rule applies to any penalty where the yardage marked off would be more than half the distance to the goal. In other words, it would apply to a five yard penalty from inside the 10, a 15 yard penalty from inside the 30, etc. The only time it doesn't apply is when a penalty is based on spot of infraction, like a pass interference call in the end zone being brought out to the one.

 

[godef]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

I believe the rule is if the penalty yardage carries into the goal it is then halved.

No, the original post cited such an example, a 5 yard penalty from the 8.

More simply, if the penalty moves the ball more than halfway to the goal, then it becomes half the distance.

 

[DGameguy]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

I'm pretty sure unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and personal fouls ie rough the quarterback, which would normally be 15 yards, are also halved when inside the opposing team's twenty yard line. I would check my NFL rulebook, but I'm at work. I believe there is an online version, however, if anyone is bored enough to look it up.

As for the reasoning behind it, I assume that the league does not want to change the result of a game by allowing a team to score simply because of a penalty, in other words, they want the red zone to be tougher/mean something, unless it is a penalty which directly affects scoring, such as pass interference in the end zone or something.

 

[TedyB54]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

The rule applies to any penalty where the yardage marked off would be more than half the distance to the goal. In other words, it would apply to a five yard penalty from inside the 10, a 15 yard penalty from inside the 30, etc. The only time it doesn't apply is when a penalty is based on spot of infraction, like a pass interference call in the end zone being brought out to the one.

Ok, that answers where it gets applied. Still curious as to the basis for the rule though. Seems odd that you can commit a 15 yard penalty at the 20 yard line and the ball ends up at the 10 instead of the 5.


Thanks for the info.

 

[TedyB54]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

As for the reasoning behind it, I assume that the league does not want to change the result of a game by allowing a team to score simply because of a penalty, in other words, they want the red zone to be tougher/mean something, unless it is a penalty which directly affects scoring, such as pass interference in the end zone or something.

Could be, although on the other hand it would seem that the rule almost favors the defense in that situation.

What if it's late in a game and a team is driving with minimal time left on the clock. They're at the 18 yard line and a defender decides puts a late hit on the QB knowing that it's only going to move the ball to the 9 instead of the full 15 yards (which would be the 3). Might be worth the shot in some cases.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

Ok, that answers where it gets applied. Still curious as to the basis for the rule though. Seems odd that you can commit a 15 yard penalty at the 20 yard line and the ball ends up at the 10 instead of the 5.


Thanks for the info.

The idea in a penalty is to encourage people not to break the rule not to change the outcome of the game, placing the ball on the one would be to harsh. Personally I think a PI call should be placed on the 5 instead of the one unless the inseide the 20 because I think placing the ball on the 1 is too harsh

 

[jmt57]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

Ok, that answers where it gets applied. Still curious as to the basis for the rule though. Seems odd that you can commit a 15 yard penalty at the 20 yard line and the ball ends up at the 10 instead of the 5.


Thanks for the info.

I would imagine the rule was put into effect because the rulemakers still wanted the points to be "earned" and not determined by a penalty. They probably felt that moving the ball from the 16 to the 1, for example, was "too much" of a penalty. In addition, it wouldn't seem right that a 15-yarder from the 16 ends up at the 1, while the same penalty from the 14 only goes to the 7 yard line.

Also, it works the same way on both ends of the field against the offense (leading to a safety) as it does against the defense (allowing a touchdown). Similar to a pass interference in the end zone where the offense is not awarded a touchdown, they still have to go in and score from the field of play.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

In addition, it wouldn't seem right that a 15-yarder from the 16 ends up at the 1, while the same penalty from the 14 only goes to the 7 yard line.

There's the answer right there. You really don't need to say any more than this to understand the rule.

I challenge anyone to come up with a way, other than a half the distance (or some portion of the distance), that doesn't avoid this anomoly.

I guess you could make it "two-thirds the distance to the goal." But that's hard math.

I think the way it works now is pretty fair. Once you're inside the 30, you're subject to getting less yardage on penalties than in the other 70 yards, but it always stays proportional: You get more yards the further you are from the goal and less the closer, where the real estate is much more valuable.

The one continuing anomoly is that inside the 10, a 5 yard penalty is worth the same as a 10 or 15 yard penalty. (And, inside the 20 a 10 yard penalty is worth the same as a 15.) Maybe you could have some proportion there, but it would be too complicated. Also, remember that many 10 and 15 yard penalties carry an automatic first down, which often is worth more in the red zone than the yardage anyway.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

Actually, any 15 yard penalty that occurs inside the 30 is 1/2 the distance, since if at the 29 a 15 yard mark off would leave it more than 1/2 way to the goal.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

For some reason, half the distance does not apply to pass interference, which is marked down to the 1 yard all the time. This is particularly lame since it's often a 30+ yard penalty. What's up with that?

 

[JoePats]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

I'm pretty sure unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and personal fouls ie rough the quarterback, which would normally be 15 yards, are also halved when inside the opposing team's twenty yard line.

These are half the distance if they're inside the 30 yard line.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

For some reason, half the distance does not apply to pass interference, which is marked down to the 1 yard all the time. This is particularly lame since it's often a 30+ yard penalty. What's up with that?

I'm not saying I agree with the rule, but I think the thinking behind this is that if the P.I. happens in the end zone, it pretty much must have prevented a score, so putting it at the 1 is "fair"?

I am a college official and prefer our rule on P.I. which is the spot of the foul OR 15 yards, whichever is less. If there is a P.I. in the end zone, and the pass came from outside the 17, it's a 15 yard penalty. If it came from the 17 to the 2, then the ball is placed at the 2, and if it came from inside the 2, it's half the distance.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

Could be, although on the other hand it would seem that the rule almost favors the defense in that situation.

The other team has the ball first and goal at your 1 yard line.

Offense is off-side: FIVE yard penalty.
Defense is off-side: 18-inch penalty.

The rule doesn't favor the offense or the defense. It simply states that (except for spot fouls like PI) penalties shall not be more than half the distance to the goal line.

 

[pats1]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

The half-the-distance-to-the-goal rule starts at the 30 yard line.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

The half-the-distance-to-the-goal rule starts at the 30 yard line.

not true.....remember the half the distance on the illegal kick off.

Damn I cant remember the full details of the play...I just remember they enforced half the distance.......the more I think about this play even though I cant remember it accurately I don't think it apllies so maybe you are true.

Anyone else remember what I am talkin about?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Question on "Half the Distance to the Goal"

The half-the-distance-to-the-goal rule starts at the 30 yard line.

FWIW, that's not actually in the rulebook; if, for example, the penalty for some personal foul were increased from 15 yards to 20, the half-distance rule for that foul would start at the 40.

Also, it's worth noting that there are two exceptions to the rule: the almost-never-called "palpably unfair act," and intentional grounding.