Pats "TOP" priorty

[billdog3484]

you dont have to draft a long snapper. i mean, maybe we could use one, but to say it is in the top 5 of our priorities is laughible

 

[BradyManny]

you dont have to draft a long snapper. i mean, maybe we could use one, but to say it is in the top 5 of our priorities is laughible

This discussion has been had on the board many times over - BB prioritizes special teamers more than the fan base does. He used a 5th rounder on a pure special teamer in 08 (Slater), and a 4th rounder on a pure special teamer in 06 (Ghost).

 

[billdog3484]

so that means long snapper is a top 5 priority for us?
ill answer...no

 

[Jimke]

Long snapper is not a priority until the snap goes sailing over

the holder's head while attempting to tie the score in the

last few seconds of a game.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Nope. Sorry. I don't believe that in the least. However, I do believe that its MY OPINION and that I've based it on my perception of how they've run this team during the last 9 years.

There are people who I have no respect for (Mr. Bigglesworth) and some I do. This is because over time, I 've come to realize that some people just talk out their arse (Biggles) and others have done their research and can provide sensible and well founded arguments to support their ideas.

gimme a break dabruinz. apparently you are the only in tune to what the organization believes in.

don't worry the feeling is mutual.

I firmly believe that the pass rush and secondary are #1 and #2 on the needs list followed by O-line.

you are counting on people already leaving. maybe we should have drafted sedirck ellis this year and forgot about mayo.

if you want to maintain the status quo and worry about people leaving then go ahead. gee maybe the pats shoould ahve thought about addressing their defense and linebackers several years ago.

they've used the franchise tag poorly at times. the way they let deion ruin that season came back to haunt them(who would have you rather seen...caldwell or branch in the afc championship game?) then they lost asante for only a compentsation pick and then they filled it poorly with deltha.

personally you tallk outta your rear, you don't even like to have a rationale discussion.

but it's ok, it could be worst... you could be a jet or colt fan

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

first question. is migtech the same person as dabruinz? if so that would make 15,000 posts. INCREDIBLE. ill give you props to that, although i dont know how that could happen.....wow

he has his teen sister sub for him

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

With that being said, here is I see the Pats top priorities based on need only.

1) Defensive End
2) Offensive Guard
3) Nose Tackle
4) Long Snapper
5) Safety - SS to Tweener
6) Pass-Rushing OLB
7) ILB
8) Cornerback
9) Offensive Tackle
10) Tight End
11) Center
12) Running back
12) Wide Receiver

3-4 DE: I listed a number of possibilities in the draft in my response to Taxed. Using your criteria, I can't argue that it's a higher ranking need.

OL: Where we start to diverge is at Offensive Guard. Hochstein is UFA after this season (though I expect him to re-sign). Connolly, LeVoir, and Wendel are either ERFA or RFA. Neal and Mankins are not gone yet, and the other three starters, plus O'Callaghan and Yates (no hissing please), remain signed. It's not realistic to expect to carry a back-up as talented as Neal, drafting his "replacement" is a bit extravagant at this point. Finding new competition for Yates seems reasonable (I'd like to think he had a nagging injury that affected his play this year - I'd really like to think that), which, combined with LeVoir's performance, is why I now view OL as a mid-round or later "need" at best.

As an aside, NFL Draft Scout lists the following "needs" for NE: OLB, CB, S, OT, OG, TE

3-4 NT: Wright is a UFA, he's the only legitimate NT Reserve on the roster, assuming Adams hasn't shown some aptitude. Without Juniors, this class is once again "thin" (Raji, Brace, Taylor, Hill & Shaw per NFLDS' rankings). I'd argue that raises Wright's value to NE, hopefully he's re-signed. With Ochmed's report on Cody's intentions, I won't be surprised if NE tries to create another "SF" trade scenerio for the 2010 draft.

LS: While I understand your criteria, I'm expecting Loni to re-sign. Barring that, I expect Hochstein to re-sign, and barring that, we may find a more consistent niche for David Thomas... I'd lower this as a "need."

S: Here is a higher ranking need, but it's one where things aren't that gloomy. I believe BB has his new SS, Rodney Jr, who may not pack the same punch as a headhunter, but he does have the same flare for ranging around and making plays. As we've seen for some years now, you can convert a larger CB to be a pretty good FS with little difficulty, assuming the CB can/will tackle well to start with. Slater getting work at S against AZ shows how they continue to work with him. Spann hasn't seen much Safety work since he's been re-signed, but he's my binky so I have faith . Ventrone is going nowhere, BB likes his ST's play. Dillard is doing the yo-yo, always a good sign. There are also some nice looking kids in this draft to consider. I think Guyton and Mayo have combined to mitigate the need for a Tank Williams-type hybrid. And all this before anyone has been re-signed - "what me worry?"

OLB: As I've said elsewhere, I believe this "need" is no longer a draft/FA priority. I realize you specified "pass rushing" to appease that contingent of the forum, but I believe the warm body for the job is here, and that the 2008 "pass rush" was affected by more factors than the lack of a Dwight Freeney on the roster.

ILB: I'm starting to believe this is the greater LB "need." Mayo is a treasure. Guyton has earned a role. Bruschi is an icon, whom I would love to see go out with another ring (c'mon Mangini, start Clemons!). I think this draft offers a legitimate shot at finding a third ILB to team with Mayo & Guyton, if Adalius doesn't get pushed back inside by Woods & Co. I don't want Vrabel in there taking that punishment, he's still got some life left.

CB: I'm inclined to want one more CB for the mix, though I believe BB/SP have quietly built a nice pool of talent. I can't quite bring myself to consider a Day One CB, but a mid-rounder sounds nice.

OT I've lumped with OL.

TE: Other than Watson having bigger pizza paddles for Cassel than he does with Brady, I'm not that worried about TE.

Center I've lumped with OL.

RB: I still want to draft a Day Two RB to groom behind Faulk. Maroney, Morris, and BJeepers provides a nice pool. Re-signing Evans, and probably Jordan doesn't seem that challenging. If either walk, this draft is promising.

WR: Gaffney showed up as a "mudder" in the AZ game. He disappears during the season, but this is the third season he's started showing up around playoff time. I can see re-signing him to be the #3 again. I can also see spending a draft pick early to bring in some competition. Tough call, but I move this up a little higher on my shopping list.

Given the currently projected 2009 and 2010 rosters - my 2009 shopping list ranks as of late December:

1) NT - (1a) Wright needs to be replaced or re-signed. (1b) Vince needs to be re-signed.
2) DE - (2a) Wright needs to be replaced or re-signed. (2b) Seymour and Green need to be re-signed.
3) ILB - Adalius needs to move back inside, or a third wheel needs to be teamed with Mayo & Guyton.
4) WR - I really feel the team needs someone to push Gaffney (if he's re-signed), someone with two working brain cells to groom alongside Moss who has potential to grow into at least a 1b WR role would be nice, but a play-making possession guy for a #3 role will do.
5) S - (5a) Sanders needs to be replaced or re-signed. (5b) Depth.
6) CB - Depth.
7) OL - Depth.
8) TE - Depth.
9) OLB - Competition.
10) RB - After watching Ian Johnson in the Poinsettia Bowl, I really want him Day Two to work with Faulk and camp on the Practice Squad.
11) P - I've come around to thinking Hanson isn't playing that badly, but if someone with a 5 second hang time, precise aim, and enough leg to hang those 5 seconds out at 60 yds (in a pinch) comes along...
12) QB - Camp fodder, competition.
12) LS - Competition.

 

[Warren94]

I didn't realize that I wasn't entitled to my own opinion or that I wasn't entitled to voice it. Thanks for bringing nothing to the conversation.

Maybe your opinion is not the only one that is valid. You think you know everything, but you don't.

 

[mgteich]

My shopping list may be different as of December 24th than yours. However, I agree with almost all your analysis.

Some of the difference may be becaue I don't assume any speciifc UFA signings. I do assume ERFA and RFA re-signings, since we can keep these players if we wish. Also, I accept that fact that Belichick will bring in 3-7 free agent defensive backs, some of which will make the teams.

For me, the first phase of the offseason ends about two weeks after the UFA period begins. By then, many of our players have been signed, and teams have made initial moves. Also we will know the names of franchised and re-signed players.

INITIAL WISH LIST (Free Agancy Begins February 27th)

STEP ONE - The Relatively Easy Ones
a) Re-sign Hochstein, Evans, Hanson
b) Tender all the ERFA's and add all the Practice Squad players.
c) Give second level tender to RFA's Woods and Britt.

STEP TWO - A Little Harder
d) re-sign Lew Sanders or free agent replacement (could be Richardson for now)
e) re-sign James Sanders or free agent replacement
f) re-sign Colvin
g) re-sign Tank Williams or free agent replacement
h) re-sign Gaffney or free agent replacement

STEP THREE - THE HARD PART
h) Re-sign Wright or free agent replacement
i) Extend Wilfork
j) Extend Seymour
k) Extend Green

STEP FOUR - POSSIBLE
Sign one or two free agents from other teams early.

=================================================================
For me, by March 16th, we will know where we are with most of the above and be ready to consider the rest of free agency and the draft. I would note that all your top six needs are addressed. I moved Thomas inside, although I expect that Guyton will start. I do believe that ILB will be a pick in the first three rounds.
====================================================================

OFFENSE (18)
QB (2) Brady, O'Connell
RB (3) Maroney, Faulk, Morris
WR (4) Moss, Welker, GAFFNEY, Aiken
TE (2) Watson, Thomas
OL (7) Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur, HOCHSTEIN, Levoir

DEFENSE (19)
DL (5) Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Green, WRIGHT
LB (3) Vrabel, Woods, COLVIN
ILB (4) Mayo, Thomas, Guyton, Bruschi
DB (7) Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, L. SANDERS, Meriweather, J.SANDERS, WILLIAMS

SPECIALISTS (3)
K (1) Gostkowski
P (1) HANSON
DS (1) PAXTON

SPECIAL TEAMERS (6) usually six are active
ST (6) EVANS, Washington, Slater, Ventrone, Spann, Redd

BACKUPS (7) often inactive
QB (1) Gutierrez
RB (1) BJGE
OL (2) Yates, Callaghan/Britt
TE (1) DeVree
DL (1) Smith
LB (1) Crable

Practice Squad Level Players (8)
WR Price
OL Connolly, Wendell
DL Adams
LB Robertson, Ruud
S Dillard
P Malone

Given the currently projected 2009 and 2010 rosters - my 2009 shopping list ranks as of late December:

1) NT - (1a) Wright needs to be replaced or re-signed. (1b) Vince needs to be re-signed.
2) DE - (2a) Wright needs to be replaced or re-signed. (2b) Seymour and Green need to be re-signed.
3) ILB - Adalius needs to move back inside, or a third wheel needs to be teamed with Mayo & Guyton.
4) WR - I really feel the team needs someone to push Gaffney (if he's re-signed), someone with two working brain cells to groom alongside Moss who has potential to grow into at least a 1b WR role would be nice, but a play-making possession guy for a #3 role will do.
5) S - (5a) Sanders needs to be replaced or re-signed. (5b) Depth.
6) CB - Depth.
7) OL - Depth.
8) TE - Depth.
9) OLB - Competition.
10) RB - After watching Ian Johnson in the Poinsettia Bowl, I really want him Day Two to work with Faulk and camp on the Practice Squad.
11) P - I've come around to thinking Hanson isn't playing that badly, but if someone with a 5 second hang time, precise aim, and enough leg to hang those 5 seconds out at 60 yds (in a pinch) comes along...
12) QB - Camp fodder, competition.
12) LS - Competition.

 

[DaBruinz]

you dont have to draft a long snapper. i mean, maybe we could use one, but to say it is in the top 5 of our priorities is laughible

You must have a reading comprehension problem because no where did I say that this was a DRAFT PRIORITY listing. In fact, when Krafty asked, I specifically said that this WASN'T a draft priority listing.

 

[DaBruinz]

if you think we need a pass rusher we are on the same page. you just gotta stop ripping people all the time. its rude

You need to work on your reading comprehension before I listen to anything you have to say.

 

[DaBruinz]

so that means long snapper is a top 5 priority for us?
ill answer...no

Fine. That's your opinion and its an ignorant one at best.

 

[DaBruinz]

Long snapper is not a priority until the snap goes sailing over

the holder's head while attempting to tie the score in the

last few seconds of a game.

Its a priority when you don't have a long snapper on the roster at the start of the next season (which is free agency at the end of March). Its truly amazing how people don't bother to look outside their own little myopic views.

You, VJC and Bill all need to realize that special teams is a third of the game and that Long Snapper is the single most important position on FGs and Punts. And, CURRENTLY, the Pats do not have a long snapper for next season as Paxton isn't signed. Could that change? Yep. And that would change the priority listing I put up.

 

[Warren94]

You need to work on your reading comprehension before I listen to anything you have to say.

There is the pot calling the Kettle black. You gripe about people working on reading comprehension. Take your own medicine.

 

[Jimke]

Its a priority when you don't have a long snapper on the roster at the start of the next season (which is free agency at the end of March). Its truly amazing how people don't bother to look outside their own little myopic views.

You, VJC and Bill all need to realize that special teams is a third of the game and that Long Snapper is the single most important position on FGs and Punts. And, CURRENTLY, the Pats do not have a long snapper for next season as Paxton isn't signed. Could that change? Yep. And that would change the priority listing I put up.

You are interpreting my post incorrectly. I think a good long

snapper is damn important to a team. I think the Pats should

re-sign Paxton before he reaches free agency because he is one

of the best snappers and is not a big ticket free agent.

 

[DaBruinz]

gimme a break dabruinz. apparently you are the only in tune to what the organization believes in.

don't worry the feeling is mutual.

The only people who claim to be "in tune" to what this organization believes are the clueless like yourself and bill.

I firmly believe that the pass rush and secondary are #1 and #2 on the needs list followed by O-line.

Good for you. The problem is that, the way you've presented yourself ISN'T what you just said. You've presented yourself as having the stance that the Patriots NEED a SACK SPECIALIST. Those were your words. Unfortunately for you, the Patriots have never had a sack specialist. One of their needs is an OLB who fits their scheme. One who can rush the passer, set the edge against the run or drop back into coverage. A one trick pony won't help them. That is what you fail to understand.

you are counting on people already leaving. maybe we should have drafted sedirck ellis this year and forgot about mayo.

Nice way to be an idiot and blow what is said out of proportion. No where did I say i was counting on people leaving. But I should expect that from you because its the only way you can try and win an argument. Too bad that isn't what was said by myself. How about you stop being a complete idiot, read what is said, take it at face value, and be done with it. Why do you insist on making yourself look like a fool with your stupid exaggerations? Do you get JOY out of showing yourself to be foolish?

if you want to maintain the status quo and worry about people leaving then go ahead. gee maybe the pats shoould ahve thought about addressing their defense and linebackers several years ago.

Again, more idiocy on your part. Who said ANYTHING about maintaining the status quo? Seriously, you need to just stop because you are just making yourself out to be even less intelligent than people thought you were previously.

The Pats have tried to address their defense and linebackers. This has been addressed in at least 2 of the books written about the Patriots organization. Maybe you should go back and re-read those books so you can have a better understanding of what they look for in their linebackers and how they prioritize the needs on the team because, right now, its clear you don't understand it at all.

they've used the franchise tag poorly at times. the way they let deion ruin that season came back to haunt them(who would have you rather seen...caldwell or branch in the afc championship game?) then they lost asante for only a compentsation pick and then they filled it poorly with deltha.

What would you have had the Patriots do differently in the Deion Branch saga? They took him as a man of his word. You seem to forget that it was Deion who lied to everyone in a Sports Illustrated interview when he said he would be a man and honor his contract. You seem to forget that it was Branch who refused to negotiate with the Patriots. How were they supposed to know that Branch wouldn't return phone calls or that his agent would ignore their offers? Many Seattle fans have bemoaned Seattle trading for Branch. As for who I would have preferred in the AFCCG game that year, it doesn't matter because the season wouldn't have unfolded that way. Its called the butterfly effect. Once you change one thing, everything after that changes. You thinking otherwise is you being all high and mighty with the advantage of hindsight.

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but Asante hasn't exactly lit it up in Philly. His signing caused a lot of dissent there amongst their veterans. What would you have them do differently? Franchise and trade him? How do you know that Samuel wouldn't have just signed the tender? Sorry, but he's not worth what he got and he's proving that

personally you tallk outta your rear, you don't even like to have a rationale discussion.

Yes, an ignorant person like yourself would think that. Unfortunately, you aren't the one being rational here. I've had plenty of coversations with the likes of Box, JSP, AndyJohnson, and others. They actually use their brains, don't exaggerate what is said, and actually ask questions to clarify if they don't understand something. The major difference between them and me is that they have a lot more patience for idiocy than I do.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maybe your opinion is not the only one that is valid. You think you know everything, but you don't.

No, I don't think I know everything nor do I pretend to. People like you, Biggles, and others, who can't be bothered to present rational arguments with factual support use that as an excuse when people like me blow you off as being ignorant.

There are plenty of people on here who I've not gotten into it with because they actually support their opinions with fact or rational thinking even when its differed from my own. They don't just say, "well, because I said so." Which is what many of you do. Sorry, that I think its laziness on your part. And people like you and Biggles get offended when people like me use fact to blow the holes in your opinions. Then you get all defensive and act like you are being picked on and whine and cry about not being treated fairly and such.

 

[billdog3484]

this guy dabruinz is amazing. he takes everybodys posts and comments on them. i think it is great you have a lot to say, and some points you make are good points. but give me a break you dont know everything. in fact im sure there is no football in your background. all you do is go by what was done by the front office in the past, which is one way to go about things. however, i think the best part of the patriots is we adapt and continually change. so you should take that into consideration when you rip into people after everything they say. respect what others people say and maybe they will do the same for you

 

[DaBruinz]

Given the currently projected 2009 and 2010 rosters - my 2009 shopping list ranks as of late December:

1) NT - (1a) Wright needs to be replaced or re-signed. (1b) Vince needs to be re-signed.
2) DE - (2a) Wright needs to be replaced or re-signed. (2b) Seymour and Green need to be re-signed.
3) ILB - Adalius needs to move back inside, or a third wheel needs to be teamed with Mayo & Guyton.
4) WR - I really feel the team needs someone to push Gaffney (if he's re-signed), someone with two working brain cells to groom alongside Moss who has potential to grow into at least a 1b WR role would be nice, but a play-making possession guy for a #3 role will do.
5) S - (5a) Sanders needs to be replaced or re-signed. (5b) Depth.
6) CB - Depth.
7) OL - Depth.
8) TE - Depth.
9) OLB - Competition.
10) RB - After watching Ian Johnson in the Poinsettia Bowl, I really want him Day Two to work with Faulk and camp on the Practice Squad.
11) P - I've come around to thinking Hanson isn't playing that badly, but if someone with a 5 second hang time, precise aim, and enough leg to hang those 5 seconds out at 60 yds (in a pinch) comes along...
12) QB - Camp fodder, competition.
12) LS - Competition.

Box - thanks for your version. As usual, very well thought out.

LS - As I pointed out to others, with Paxton and Hochstein both being UFA I see this an area the Pats need to address in the off-season. One of the reasons I am leary about Paxton re-signing is that he didn't sign a long term deal this past off-season. Usually, when a team has a long snapper like Paxton, they sign them to long term deals with a decent bonus before he ever gets to free agency. Paxton only signing a one year deal left me perplexed because its not like the Pats didn't have the money to sign him. It could have been that he was seeing what his options were, but he was still re-signed late in the free agency period. Something was going on there that we, the fans, didn't hear about. It could have been a money thing or it could have been that Paxton wanted to see what else was out there. I don't know. But it definitely has made me leary of just assuming he'll be back.

As for Thomas, I know that he got some time long snapping during his rookie year, but did he do any during camp this season? I don't remember hearing about it.

OLB: When I said Pass Rushing OLB, when I mean is an OLB who fits the Pats scheme, but who is better at pass rushing than setting the edge against the run or dropping back into coverage. I am not referring to a SACK SPECIALST. And, this one could be done internally, which would make it a non-issue. I know that Redd, Roberstson and Craig were excellent college pass rushers. Robertson, I think, could be a steal and end up being that player. He was a very highly touted pick until he tore a pectoral muscle while preparing for the combine. Robertson was also very good against the run in college and was decent dropping back into coverage, though he wasn't asked to do so often.

WR: I was amazingly surprised that the Pats didn't make a run for Bryant Johnson. Johnson, imho, was the most under-rated receiver not named Wes Welker. He regularly stepped up while with the Cardinals and because the #2 receiver when either Boldin or Fitzgerald were injured. I'd love to see the Pats get him as I think he could easily push Gaffney out the door. Particularly lining up opposite Moss.

Other than that, I agree with much of what you wrote. We just weigh the areas differentlly. Thanks again.

 

[DaBruinz]

this guy dabruinz is amazing. he takes everybodys posts and comments on them. i think it is great you have a lot to say, and some points you make are good points. but give me a break you dont know everything. in fact im sure there is no football in your background. all you do is go by what was done by the front office in the past, which is one way to go about things. however, i think the best part of the patriots is we adapt and continually change. so you should take that into consideration when you rip into people after everything they say. respect what others people say and maybe they will do the same for you

I was the OP, why wouldn't I comment on people's posts in the thread that I started?

Give you a break? No. Why should I? You are the on insisting on posting unrelated junk in this thread.

I don't act like I know everything. Only ignorant people like yourself believe so. You'd also be wrong about my background. But that's ok. You've been wrong pretty much this entire thread. So why would you change now.

The Patriots adapt and change based on the personnel that they have available. However, the concepts are still the same. They still have certain criteria that they look for in particular positions. That doesn't change.

You clearly don't understand what I do and don't take into consideration when I put up a thread like this one. You don't understand what I have looked at and how much research I've done on the subject.

As for respect, your parents must not have taught you that respect is earned, not given freely. You want my respect? Earn it. Post intelligent, well thought out and supported ideas the way that BOR or JSP or AndyJohnson do. I go out of my way to do so with my posts. You could have the courtesy to do the same. Don't take what is said and blow it out of proportion or try to read something into it. If you have a question, ask it. Don't just assume you know it and go off on some tangent. And stick to the subject.

And, if you make a mistake and are called on it, own up to it and thank the person who found it. Don't try and be a spin doctor.