Pats considering Butler trade to Saints for Brandin Cooks

[Pats1989]

Draft one

Easier said than done. Butler is worth a ton.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's a good point and you are right I was being simplistic.

However: all of that is complimentary to having what you call an "underneath guy" and what I rather lazily called the slot receiver. Cooks by all accounts can stress defenses no matter who is matched up on him horizontally (and vertically). The people we have on this team can only do that if they have a matchup advantage (LB on a RB in the slot, TE/WR on a S, etc.)

Edelman (and Cooks) beat slot CBs.

I agree.

Beating man to man coverage at the WR position is a desirable quality to have in this offense however they get by without it very well because of matchups, play design, Brady and excellent route-running. JE 11 is the closest guy we have to beating man to man coverage. Because of his size, Gronk is as well.

IThis offense needs at base that guy who beats the best defender, beats him horizontally, and beats him quickly. Then he draws the doubleteam, and the offense opens up for matchup advantages elsewhere.

I support acquiring that kind of player but I'm not 100% all -in that person is critical. I think BBs approach is to execute on those things in the aggregate.

 

[luuked]

Personally, the more I think about it the more I am expecting the Pats to trade Butler to the Saints unless he agrees to a very, very team friendly offer.

The entire situation reminds me a bit of Amendola/Welker in 2013 where BB/Caserio set a deadline to Welker and when he didn't sign at that point they executed plan B (Amendola). The way that some of the beat reporters mentioned the Pats not being "officially" interested in Gilmore until suddenly at some point today morning kinda smells like a similar deadline passed and BB once again went to plan B.

Lets not forget that Butler doesn't have a particularly experienced agent (only 2 players under contract) so that guy might have overplayed his hand by calling the Pats deadline a bluff.

Obviously, I might be totally misreading it but the entire sequence of how things happened just seems a bit weird to me.

 

[JayNM]

This makes it even more jarring to me.

The trade rumours have some truth to it, but I doubt this guys has any privileged information like this. Just one more writer trying to look good on a guess.

 

[Marqui]

This makes it even more jarring to me.

Why is that account credible?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Why is that account credible?

I don't think it is...at all. But idk

 

[luuked]

even if no one picks up the tender, $3.91m for another year of butler's services is a good deal for the patriots.
.

It depends on how the player deals with the situation. Most here can remember how Welker was pissed at the franchise tag in 2012 and ****ed all over the preseason/camp to the point where BB was keeping him on the bench.

At this point Butler has so much tape that even if he phones it in the same way Welker was he'd maintain most of his value into FA next year.

 

[luuked]

Why is that account credible?

It was retweeted by Chatham which gives it a bit of credibility.

 

[GodBrady]

i wrote this in the gilmore thread:

so the (hypothetical) options are:

1) butler for 5 years @ $14m/year

2) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + butler for 1 year @ $3.9m + possible compensatory pick when butler leaves in free agency

3) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + 1st-round pick if butler gets signed to another team

and if the butler/cooks trade goes through

4) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + cooks for 2 years @ ~$4.6m/year + possible compensatory pick when cooks leaves in free agency

i think it's a no-brainer that you would do the gilmore deal even if you liked butler better, because there's no way to match the additional extras you get with the gilmore deal.

Excellent breakdown.

Since they have signed Gilmore, I wonder if they won't be a little more aggressive in FA? Normally we'd get a compensation pick for Hightower signing elsewhere, but now that's likely gone since we signed Gilmore to a huge deal.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Butler not signing his tender is making this trade less likley. I think the Saints rightly want this done today. If Butler doesn't sign the Pats can't do it.

If the happens the Pats will hope to hope for someone to pick up the tender if they want to get value for him this year.

Personally I am fine having him on a 1 year deal for fairly cheap. Him Gilmore and Rowe? Good luck passing on us. That would make our D better than last year without doing anything else to big.

I worry about him not being there 100 percent. Still don't know why he won't sign the tender. He will get paid eventually if he believes in his skills as a player. He's still young

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

Easier said than done. Butler is worth a ton.

If he's unhappy, he's worth nothing. They trade him for a great WR they get a top 15 pick and saints get a GREAT CB, Butler gets paid and they keep a first. Everybody wins.

 

[unoriginal]

I agree.

Beating man to man coverage at the WR position is a desirable quality to have in this offense however they get by without it very well because of matchups, play design, Brady and excellent route-running. JE 11 is the closest guy we have to beating man to man coverage. Because of his size, Gronk is as well.



I support acquiring that kind of player but I'm not 100% all -in that person is critical. I think BBs approach is to execute on those things in the aggregate.

For me the criticallity of this person was summed up in the Super Bowl on Edelman's ridiculous catch where he was blanketed by 3 Falcons. If Edelman does not draw that kind of attention on nearly every play because he or someone like him is unavailable the Patriots get demolished, like the Broncos were when the Seahawks knocked Emmanuel Sanders around.

Job #1 when facing the Patriots offense is to stop Welker/Edelman. Well technically its stop the run but that isn't hard. Teams that devote themselves to taking away Brady's favorite quick read give themselves a chance to compete in their match-ups elsewhere and for the rush to get home.

 

[ViperGTS]

For me the criticallity of this person was summed up in the Super Bowl on Edelman's ridiculous catch where he was blanketed by 3 Falcons. If Edelman does not draw that kind of attention on nearly every play because he or someone like him is unavailable the Patriots get demolished, like the Broncos were when the Seahawks knocked Emmanuel Sanders around.

Job #1 when facing the Patriots offense is to stop Welker/Edelman. Well technically its stop the run but that isn't hard. Teams that devote themselves to taking away Brady's favorite quick read give themselves a chance to compete in their match-ups elsewhere and for the rush to get home.

Um...forgetting Gronk in your theory?

 

[BobDigital]

i wrote this in the gilmore thread:

so the (hypothetical) options are:

1) butler for 5 years @ $14m/year

2) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + butler for 1 year @ $3.9m + possible compensatory pick when butler leaves in free agency

3) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + 1st-round pick if butler gets signed to another team

and if the butler/cooks trade goes through

4) gilmore for 5 years @ $14m/year + cooks for 2 years @ ~$4.6m/year + possible compensatory pick when cooks leaves in free agency

i think it's a no-brainer that you would do the gilmore deal even if you liked butler better, because there's no way to match the additional extras you get with the gilmore deal.

Doesn't signing Gilmore make it virtually impossible for the Pats to get a comp pick?

 

[unoriginal]

Um...forgetting Gronk in your theory?

I did not forget that Gronk is chronically unavailable, and specifically was not available much last year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Doesn't signing Gilmore make it virtually impossible for the Pats to get a comp pick?

For the 2018 draft, yeah, but if Butler leaves after this season his possible comp pick would be for the 2019 draft.

 

[RobertWeathers]

For me the criticallity of this person was summed up in the Super Bowl on Edelman's ridiculous catch where he was blanketed by 3 Falcons. If Edelman does not draw that kind of attention on nearly every play because he or someone like him is unavailable the Patriots get demolished, like the Broncos were when the Seahawks knocked Emmanuel Sanders around.

We agree on JE11's importance but hes not the same receiver as Cooks.

Lets be honest here, Tom should have thrown the ball somewhere else. However, as Tom's binky, I think that play is more of a poof-point of JE11's elite-level clutchness, being a total and complete baller and Tom's confidence in him. We have no idea if Cooks has the intestinal fortitude JE11 has. Quite frankly, I think you can count on two hands the # of NFL receivers in the NFL that measure up to JE11s guts and determination but that is a separate discussion,.

Job #1 when facing the Patriots offense is to stop Welker/Edelman. Well technically its stop the run but that isn't hard. Teams that devote themselves to taking away Brady's favorite quick read give themselves a chance to compete in their match-ups elsewhere and for the rush to get home.

I agree but because the NEP have a much more diversified attack, that strategy isn't as full-proof as it once was.

 

[long distance]

Don't know which thread is more about Butler perspective..

I think with BB its really simple.
If looks on long-term are too far apart - short-term release follows.

Its actually a good philosophy bc its straight up and avoids too much drama.
Butler (or his agent) hinting on sitting out 2016 pre-season didn't sit well w Bill.
He wants the focus on the field at all times.
Butler finally bought in - had a great season - they sat at negotiating table again, reportedly quickly saw they're too far apart - and that means the end long-term.


When and how this end comes it is in Pats hands. If they get their value now its now - like the CJ scenario. Im sure they are also comfortable going with dissatisfied Butler into the season - and if hiss mood enters the field or the locker room - its the JC scenario. Or they can play the season out with monster secondary - and its goodbye for a comp. pick.

With Gilmore reportedly taking Pats #1 CB spot, its really hard to envision any kind of Butler re-signing scenario - like it could possibly happen w Hightower.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

As an RFA he can be signed to an offer sheet by another team. And the Pats (or the Saints) would have the right to match. Obviously, if the trade happens the Saints would want Butler to first agree to an extension so it doesn't even come to this but technically that's how it is. Isn't it ?

Butler cannot be traded as an RFA. He has to be under contract with the trading team before he can be traded.

So Butler signs the NE tender thereby becoming under contract to NE and no longer a RFA (no longer a FA in any form for that matter). At that point no one can even talk to him w/o NE's permission. Butler is now traded to NO. As in all trades, the contract follows him. Once in NO he tears up his contract and signs the long-term deal that was agreed to as part of the trade negotiations.

Now, if before NE can do the trade some team makes an offer to Butler and he signs it, NE would have to match the offer if they still wanted to do the trade. Matching the offer puts Butler under contract to NE and then they can trade him. The contract would follow him, etc. Of course, NO wouldn't do the trade if they can't get a commitment from Butler to renegotiate that contract into a longer-term deal NO wants. If NE does not match the offer Butler goes to the team he signed with and NE gets that teams's 1st round pick.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

This makes it even more jarring to me.

That last is not surprising given that Butler's agent has virtually no NFL experience. He probably doesn't know how things work, doesn't know typical NFL practices and parameters, and so forth. I'd imagine experienced agents know how to not waste time when negotiating with teams.