Pats Bring Safety Taylor Mays for workout

[mgteich]

Even though it's just a tryout situation, the only thing that makes sense about this, to me, is the possibility that BB wants to see if he can possibly be coached up to play the Patrick Chung position. If that's BB's thinking, good luck to him trying to teach this guy.

Belichick would like SOMEONE to be coached up to backup Chung as a SS (and big nickel back). If not, we'll go without or keep Richards in that role.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

He can't play safety. He can't play linebacker. Is he going to play DL?

From what I understand, he was decent on special teams? Big guy who can run fast and deliver a hit, but that's about it. He just didn't have the processing power to understand the pro game. That said, we already have quite a few specialists in the kicking game, and we just brought in more via UDFA. Jason Thompson, for example, who is one of the best ST players in the nation. He's still young and has some upside. Mays, on the other hand, never flashed real ability other than a few big hits and nice speed at the Combine.

 

[rads2005]

I don't see this happening. He reminds me of David Boston, all muscle no play.

David Boston was a good receiver. I don't think you can get 98 receptions in a year without some skills. I remember he had a lot of injuries and a bad attitude.

 

[maineman209]

Taylor Mays to work out for Patriots

Considered a top player in the 2010 draft but has bounced around from team to team over the years. Had good combine numbers including a 4.43 40 time. He was suspended for substance abuse.

In addition to the 4.43/40, Mays had a 41" vertical and a sub-7 3-cone. He's also 6031/230. There have been LBs drafted that are about that size, but not as athletic.

Lots of amateur tape-watchers were really skeptical of his skill level and intelligence, though.

 

[maineman209]

FYI, "Bwahahaha" is a laugh..."Mwahaha" is an evil laugh.

And yes, I'm the guy who coined those!

IIRC, it's the opposite in Canada.

I'm in Maine, so either one works.

 

[maineman209]

Not directed at you directly but personally I think people get hung up on draft labels way too much. After a player's second season it doesn't matter anymore where he was drafted. At that point when he is going into his third offseason a players value is solely based on what he is and where he was drafted is completely irrelevant.

With BB, I think where guy was drafted ceases to matter about a nanosecond after he sends the card up.

 

[woolster22]

Not directed at you directly but personally I think people get hung up on draft labels way too much. After a player's second season it doesn't matter anymore where he was drafted. At that point when he is going into his third offseason a players value is solely based on what he is and where he was drafted is completely irrelevant.

Not sure thats completely true. I think those drafted high for their athletic abilities generally hold enough value to a certain hooded hc with a new boat. How many vet 1st rounders did BB bring in last year (on the cheap and for cheap compensation). Van noy, the guard in the jones trade, Mcclellin. I'm sure i missed a few. While the guard didn't pan out, Mcclellin and van noy contributed, albeit with limited roles (how many on here were saying "Collins who?" after Van Noy jumped the line to block the fg, iirc, shortly after Collins was traded).

I'd argue that draft slot contributes to interest from the 31 teams who have not had the borderline player on their roster, when said player is cut/trade bait/UFA. The athletically gifted raises an eyebrow, the less gifted probably isnt given the same regard. Often, the difference would be original draft position.

There was a good discussion here earlier this week regarding "athletes" and "football players." While it was vaguely agreed the football player generally has a more productive career, it was in regard to top flight producers. Id argue that fringe players (STs, limited roles, backups) generally will be more appreciated for their athletic ability, where the intangibles in this group tend to be limited, at best. The discussion in said thread was generally around WR, and did not denote a seperation of slot/split while relying heavily on 40/3 cone times.

Long story short, I disagree. While draft slot itself may not hold water, the attributes that land a player in said slot matters to a team contemplating giving them a shot to make the roster.

 

[luuked]

Not sure thats completely true. I think those drafted high for their athletic abilities generally hold enough value to a certain hooded hc with a new boat. How many vet 1st rounders did BB bring in last year (on the cheap and for cheap compensation). Van noy, the guard in the jones trade, Mcclellin. I'm sure i missed a few. While the guard didn't pan out, Mcclellin and van noy contributed, albeit with limited roles (how many on here were saying "Collins who?" after Van Noy jumped the line to block the fg, iirc, shortly after Collins was traded).

I'd argue that draft slot contributes to interest from the 31 teams who have not had the borderline player on their roster, when said player is cut/trade bait/UFA. The athletically gifted raises an eyebrow, the less gifted probably isnt given the same regard. Often, the difference would be original draft position.

There was a good discussion here earlier this week regarding "athletes" and "football players." While it was vaguely agreed the football player generally has a more productive career, it was in regard to top flight producers. Id argue that fringe players (STs, limited roles, backups) generally will be more appreciated for their athletic ability, where the intangibles in this group tend to be limited, at best. The discussion in said thread was generally around WR, and did not denote a seperation of slot/split while relying heavily on 40/3 cone times.

Long story short, I disagree. While draft slot itself may not hold water, the attributes that land a player in said slot matters to a team contemplating giving them a shot to make the roster.

Yeah, like I said people just overvalue historic draft spots and see correlations where there are none.

The only draftees where there really is a substantial gap in athletic ability relative to the average at their position in the NFL are those rare blue chip players that usually go in the early teens and don't generally don't end up busting too often. Apart from those rare players you'd be surprised how little difference in terms of overall athletic ability between most players in the league actually exists. This happens mostly because each team's strength and conditioning crew mostly knows what they are doing to "max" their players.

The other main reason why some players are being taken before others is because they are closer to being "pro ready" and don't need to redshirt. But that advantage disappears after the first season completely with late round players developing faster than their day 1 / day 2 counter parts.

Most players you cited are those that were on the Pats radar even before they were drafted. It doesn't matter where their original team took them as they fit a profile or a specific role.

But whatever..

 

[mgteich]

With BB, I think where guy was drafted ceases to matter about a nanosecond after he sends the card up.

This sounds good, but it simply isn't true.

Consider two players, an UDFA and one drafted in the 1st or second round. The UDFA could be cut the next day. The first or second round draft choices will always make the 53 (barring IR or PUP) and will also make the squad in their second year.

The first or second rounder will definitely be given a shot to have significant reps. Of course, when crunch time comes and one is game planning the UDFA could be active and playing while the top draft choice sits.

BOTTOM LINE
Belichick does NOT treat a first or second rounder the same as an UDFA.

 

[maineman209]

This sounds good, but it simply isn't true.

Consider two players, an UDFA and one drafted in the 1st or second round. The UDFA could be cut the next day. The first or second round draft choices will always make the 53 (barring IR or PUP) and will also make the squad in their second year.

The first or second rounder will definitely be given a shot to have significant reps. Of course, when crunch time comes and one is game planning the UDFA could be active and playing while the top draft choice sits.

BOTTOM LINE
Belichick does NOT treat a first or second rounder the same as an UDFA.

BB clearly drafts prospects for whom he has certain floor and ceiling expectations. What round he drafts a prospect in is dependent on perceived market demand for that prospects services.

If a prospect fails to meet those original expectations, but still remains useful to the team in some capacity (stays above his expected floor), he typically hangs onto them - at least until they get beat out by someone who comes closer to meeting those original expectations.

The notion that BB hangs onto second-rounders or treats them differently from the scores of shot-in-the-dark UDFAs simply because they were second rounders is extremely shallow analysis.

 

[mgteich]

Belichick has NEVER cut a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounder in their rookie year. He has cut hundreds of UDFA's. So, yes, he "hangs" on to second rounders because they are second rounders.

I don't believe he has cut a 1st or 2nd rounder in their second year either.

The notion that BB hangs onto second-rounders or treats them differently from the scores of shot-in-the-dark UDFAs simply because they were second rounders is extremely shallow analysis.

 

[Kontradiction]

Belichick has NEVER cut a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounder in their rookie year. He has cut hundreds of UDFA's. So, yes, he "hangs" on to second rounders because they are second rounders.

I don't believe he has cut a 1st or 2nd rounder in their second year either.

He DID cut Easley not long after his second season with the team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

In addition to the 4.43/40, Mays had a 41" vertical and a sub-7 3-cone. He's also 6031/230. There have been LBs drafted that are about that size, but not as athletic.

Lots of amateur tape-watchers were really skeptical of his skill level and intelligence, though.

Yeah, I hope we pass on him because of that last point. He doesn't play with anywhere near that kind of game speed. Doesn't change directions well, not very good anticipation.

 

[mgteich]

He DID cut Easley not long after his second season with the team.

Yes, AFTER his second year; also he had an injury history. The assertion was that 2nd rounders and UDFA's are treated the same.

My point is that Belichick "gives" second rounders a couple of years to prove themselves on the squad. UDFA's sometimes get less than a week.

So, yes, since Richards is on the 90 man squad, I believe that Belichick thinks that he is more qualified than others who could be potentially signed to the 90 man squad. And, as I pointed out, the team COULD think very highly of him.

 

[maineman209]

He DID cut Easley not long after his second season with the team.

Darius Butler, cut after two seasons.
Cunningham benched for his second season after a decent rookie season, then cut after his third season after making a slight comeback.
Traded Chandler Jones before the end of his rookie contract.
Traded Jamie Collins in the middle of his fourth season.
Traded Maroney after 4 seasons and went with UDFA BGE as his lead back for the next two seasons.
Chad Jackson, cut after two.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, AFTER his second year; also he had an injury history. The assertion was that 2nd rounders and UDFA's are treated the same.

My point is that Belichick "gives" second rounders a couple of years to prove themselves on the squad. UDFA's sometimes get less than a week.

So, yes, since Richards is on the 90 man squad, I believe that Belichick thinks that he is more qualified than others who could be potentially signed to the 90 man squad. And, as I pointed out, the team COULD think very highly of him.

The reason Easley was cut has more to do with his attitude than his injury history.

 

[mgteich]

STATEMENT
UDFA's and 2nd rounders are treated the same once they arrive on the team

MG's RESPONSE
Nonsense. 2nd rounders are always kept for their rookie season, almost always through two seasons. UDFA's are sometimes cut within a week of being signed.

I extended this conclusion to 1st though 4th rounders. I also indicated that it was between the end of the second and the Game 1 of the 3rd season that early draftees often have their last chance to show something, although injured players sometimes a given more tome.

MY CONCLUSION
continues to be that 2nd rounders are treated much differently than UDFA's. through their rookie seasons, and through their sophomore seasons.

Darius Butler, cut after two seasons.
Cunningham benched for his second season after a decent rookie season, then cut after his third season after making a slight comeback.
Traded Chandler Jones before the end of his rookie contract.
Traded Jamie Collins in the middle of his fourth season.
Traded Maroney after 4 seasons and went with UDFA BGE as his lead back for the next two seasons.
Chad Jackson, cut after two.

 

[Deus Irae]

Darius Butler, cut after two seasons.
Cunningham benched for his second season after a decent rookie season, then cut after his third season after making a slight comeback.
Traded Chandler Jones before the end of his rookie contract.
Traded Jamie Collins in the middle of his fourth season.
Traded Maroney after 4 seasons and went with UDFA BGE as his lead back for the next two seasons.
Chad Jackson, cut after two.

Your argument was clearly and provably wrong. No need to keep digging the hole.

 

[mgteich]

Darius Butler, cut after two seasons.

????

Butler played for two seasons and was in camp for the entire 3rd off-season. He wasn't cut after his second year. He was cut well into the 2011 season. He wasn't cut until September, after having not shown enough to continue. He was given the entire offseason (camps and the pre-season) to show enough to stay.

BTW, I am not discussing the decision to cut Butler. However, he was give 3 offseason to show his stuff. He also had lots of opportunities to play in his 2 seasons here.

 

[captain stone]

I really, really hope that both David Jones & Demarius Travis make the 53, and that the bust (as predicted) Jordan Richards does not.