Patriots Daily News Thread Patriots Wednesday 12/27/23

[upstater1]

since all turnovers like lost fumbles and interceptions trigger an automatic booth review, when an offensive team attempts a fourth-down conversion but fails, the coach will not be allowed to challenge the failed attempt because officials in the booth will examine the play by default.

NFL rule changes for 2023: Here's what they are and what they mean

Ahead of the 2023 season, the NFL's competition committee adopted two rule changes and two points of clarification to existing rules.

www.usatoday.com

It happened on 1st down.

 

[signbabybrady]

??
You can definitely challenge a fumble call. Right?
What are you referring to?

I'm saying all turnovers and scoring plays are already subject to review so it's up to the officials and not Bill.

 

[upstater1]

I'm saying all turnovers and scoring plays are already subject to review so it's up to the officials and not Bill.

You're mistaken.

Coaches can challenge whether something is a fumble or not. Just because the booth can step in doesn't mean a coach can't challenge it.

 

[signbabybrady]

It happened on 1st down.

The article also states this "the coach will not be allowed to challenge the failed attempt because officials in the booth will examine the play by default." Since a 4th down can't be challenged because it's a turnover any other type of turnover falls under the same umbrella and booth examines by default.

 

[stcjones]

Arm was moving forward, lost control of the ball. Not a fumble

If anything seemed like textbook tuck rule….seemed like he was actually pulling it back down after arm went forward….surprised that BB didn’t challenge and that NY didn’t look at it again

 

[Mack Herron]

It happened on 1st down.

Replay officials are solely responsible for confirming all plays that result in a score or turnover and all try attempts.

NFL Replay Officials | NFL Football Operations

The NFL's replay officials perform a critical role in ensuring that all reviews during games are handled consistently, efficiently and correctly.

operations.nfl.com

 

[upstater1]

The article also states this "the coach will not be allowed to challenge the failed attempt because officials in the booth will examine the play by default." Since a 4th down can't be challenged because it's a turnover any other type of turnover falls under the same umbrella and booth examines by default.

It wasn't 4th down. It was first down.

 

[signbabybrady]

It wasn't 4th down. It was first down.

Yes 4th down is turnover on downs. Lost fumbles are just plain turnovers. Regardless all turnovers are on the booth. Your focusing on the wrong part of the article.

 

[upstater1]

Replay officials are solely responsible for confirming all plays that result in a score or turnover and all try attempts.

NFL Replay Officials | NFL Football Operations

The NFL's replay officials perform a critical role in ensuring that all reviews during games are handled consistently, efficiently and correctly.

operations.nfl.com

This is all clear as mud.

The language on this rule says that on 4th down, they trigger an automatic review, no coaching challenges allowed. BUT if it applied to all downs, then why specify what happens on 4th down? Why make the 4th down distinction if it's a general rule in all cases that a coach can't challenge a fumble?

Here is a screen shot of one rule:

 

[upstater1]

But then you look at the actual Section 3 and Article 2, and it becomes even more confusing:

 

[upstater1]

 

[upstater1]

Article 2 says these are only booth reviewable, but we see coaches challenge those things all the time.

This stuff is really nuts. N. V. T. S. nuts.

The NFL badly needs an English major to rewrite the rule book.

No wonder Spygate happened.

If you do searches of coaches challenging fumbles, you'll find a bunch of NFL website commentators from this fall 2023 saying exactly what I said. They might all be wrong, who knows.

 

[upstater1]

I just did a search and found that on Oct. 8 of this year, Mike Tomlin challenged a fumble ruling and that the fumble was upheld by the review assistant.

 

[upstater1]

Yes 4th down is turnover on downs. Lost fumbles are just plain turnovers. Regardless all turnovers are on the booth. Your focusing on the wrong part of the article.

That may be, but someone will have to explain this:

NO GAIN

1 & 10 - WAS 38 (3:37 - 3rd) T.Heinicke sacked at GB 48 for -10 yards (K.Enagbare). FUMBLES (K.Enagbare) [K.Enagbare] - touched at GB 45 - recovered by WAS-J.Bates at WAS 49. Washington challenged the fumble ruling - and the play was REVERSED. T.Heinicke pass incomplete short middle to C.Sims [K.Enagbare].

 

[signbabybrady]

That may be, but someone will have to explain this:

NO GAIN

1 & 10 - WAS 38 (3:37 - 3rd) T.Heinicke sacked at GB 48 for -10 yards (K.Enagbare). FUMBLES (K.Enagbare) [K.Enagbare] - touched at GB 45 - recovered by WAS-J.Bates at WAS 49. Washington challenged the fumble ruling - and the play was REVERSED. T.Heinicke pass incomplete short middle to C.Sims [K.Enagbare].

That reads like a fumble that was recovered by the fumbling team so not a turnover and not an automatic review. The challenge looks like it turned a fumble into an incomplete and they avoided losing yards with the challenge.

 

[signbabybrady]

Article 2 says these are only booth reviewable, but we see coaches challenge those things all the time.

This stuff is really nuts. N. V. T. S. nuts.

The NFL badly needs an English major to rewrite the rule book.

No wonder Spygate happened.

If you do searches of coaches challenging fumbles, you'll find a bunch of NFL website commentators from this fall 2023 saying exactly what I said. They might all be wrong, who knows.

Yeah the minutia can get very specific and confusing.

I would point out a few things about what you identified above. Some things you're pointing out are rules as to what is reviewable but not who initiates that review. So as a reverse example regardless of booth or coach you can't review a holding call.

As another point you're getting confused by the fact not all fumbles are turnovers. And that is one of those minute details that makes a huge difference.

 

[PatsFan2]

The Slant by the WR was open too nice route combinations by OCBOB zone or man beater.

 

[captain stone]

I certainly hope so.

 

[captain stone]

That ****ing dusty old mediocrity Rivera should've let Jacoby cook on that final ****ing drive vs the Jete, the ****ing Coward.

 

[upstater1]

Yeah the minutia can get very specific and confusing.

I would point out a few things about what you identified above. Some things you're pointing out are rules as to what is reviewable but not who initiates that review. So as a reverse example regardless of booth or coach you can't review a holding call.

As another point you're getting confused by the fact not all fumbles are turnovers. And that is one of those minute details that makes a huge difference.

? Presumably no one would challenge a call unless it's a turnover or should've been called a turnover.