Patriots Daily News Thread Patriots Wednesday 10/4/23

[Real fan 02]

Mac needs to learn how to make plays the ball is in his hand. They made him a First Rounder he needs to start playing like one or play Zappe.

Crappe was released no one picked him up.. he is what he is...

 

[Real fan 02]

That's what I'm saying.

I really... wasn't intending to get into a Mac debate.. I'd have to imagine we all just want our patriots to just win right?

 

[PatsFan2]

Crappe was released no one picked him up.. he is what he is...

Crappe?? or Zappe for some reason Parker clicked with him not so much Mac.

 

[Wozzy]

We'll hear the excuses when he gags against the Saints. Just get a lead on the Mac Jones lead Patriots and game over I see a trend. The Saints have some explosive players on Offense in Olave and Shaheed plus the crafty vet M Thomas.

The bigger concern with Derek Carr playing with a bum shoulder and the horrid Raiders defense the following week, is that Mac coming off a stinker will play just well enough (see weeks 1-3) to retain his job.

Then in weeks 7-8 he’ll get completely slaughtered by the Bills and Dolphins… so any possibility of sneaking into the playoffs will end.

This makes more sense to the coaching staff then making the tough choice, letting Zappe warm up and improve against two softer defenses before he has to face Buffalo.

 

[Wozzy]

Solely from watching the QB School videos, I get the sense that Mac is a good QB (with the exception of the Dallas game where he completely unraveled), but that our offense is built on an insanely high degree of efficiency. And I'm pretty sure Mac can't do that. And if we're not going to give him better weapons, he's definitely not going to get there.

So I look at it like either we get him better weapons or we get a QB that can play in an offense that doesn't require such a high level of efficiency. And at this point, I'm kind of okay with both.

This sounds suspiciously like tip toeing around the truth rather than facing it head on. The offense isn’t the problem.

 

[Wozzy]

Crappe?? or Zappe for some reason Parker clicked with him not so much Mac.

So did Thornton.

 

[Real fan 02]

Crappe?? or Zappe for some reason Parker clicked with him not so much Mac.

Sorry crappie zappe

 

[PatsFan2]

The bigger concern with Derek Carr playing with a bum shoulder and the horrid Raiders defense the following week, is that Mac coming off a stinker will play just well enough (see weeks 1-3) to retain his job.

Then in weeks 7-8 he’ll get completely slaughtered by the Bills and Dolphins… so any possibility of sneaking into the playoffs will end.

This makes more sense to the coaching staff then making the tough choice, letting Zappe warm up and improve against two softer defenses before he has to face Buffalo.

McDaniels is not losing to Mac 10 that I guarantee.

 

[Wozzy]

Randy checked out that season.
We know this.. is why we got him for a 4th rounder in 07.. wozzy.. I'm not sitting here saying Mac should not take some blame.. just the kid hasn't been put in the best situation for a 3rd year QB. Is all I'm saying. Now get Mac the real devante not named Parker and let's see then...

Randy checked out because his QB’s, who both were out of the NFL within a season, stunk to the high heavens.

Mac is mentally soft, no heart, no fight, poor decision maker, snowflake.

I said they should have stuck with the hot hand in Zappe last season before the Bears game. I said prior to the Ravens game that Mac was in danger of losing his job if he didn’t stop turning the ball over… I wasn’t alone, Mike Lombardi said the same thing.

The only thing that saved Mac’s job was getting hurt in that Ravens game and the staff feeling terrible about starting Mac against the Bears three weeks later only to hear the home crowd chant Zappe’s name.

Mac showed some contrition and stopped turning the ball over… at least until later in the season. If the coaches had the balls to keep Zappe in there, he may have taken the job and never looked back.

Now here we are, with mediocre to poor QB play and a mentally fragile starter who loses a little more confidence after each game.

 

[Wozzy]

McDaniels is not losing to Mac 10 that I guarantee.

The Raiders D is ranked 29th out of 32 teams in preventing points.

McDaniels can’t do anything… especially build a complete roster and be a head coach.

 

[PatsFan2]

The Raiders D is ranked 29th out of 32 teams in preventing points.

McDaniels can’t do anything… especially build a complete roster and be a head coach.

And we're the 32nd Ranked Offense talk about irony. Crappy D playing Crappy O Defense always wins.

 

[mike_usagisan]

This sounds suspiciously like tip toeing around the truth rather than facing it head on. The offense isn’t the problem.

I'm not trying to and I'm basically agreeing with you. The offense is built on Mac's supposed strengths, which are accuracy and efficiency. But he's not playing well enough to make that work (especially without a running game). So, either we give him better weapons to make that easier. Or we get a new QB with other strengths and build a different offense around them. And I'm leaning toward a new QB and better weapons. Is that saying Mac isn't good enough? Yes. I think we could get the offense there where Mac could do okay, but I don't think he's ever going to be great, which is really what we need.

 

[Wozzy]

I'm not trying to and I'm basically agreeing with you. The offense is built on Mac's supposed strengths, which are accuracy and efficiency. But he's not playing well enough to make that work (especially without a running game). So, either we give him better weapons to make that easier. Or we get a new QB with other strengths and build a different offense around them. And I'm leaning toward a new QB and better weapons. Is that saying Mac isn't good enough? Yes. I think we could get the offense there where Mac could do okay, but I don't think he's ever going to be great, which is really what we need.

Everyone keeps perpetuating this myth… that Mac’s strength is decision making and his problem is a weak arm or his weapons.

Really... based on what?

Throwing back across the field not once, but twice last game... after getting away with it once. Does he think these defenders are dumb?

He throws high arcing back shoulder throws when he has WR's (Parker, Douglas) running free behind the defensive backs for easy TD's.

He throws 50/50 balls where only the defender can get them (Parker, Gesicki).

He holds the ball when he has receivers streaking free in front of his face.

He still misses free blitzes because he doesn't slow down and scan the field one last time before he snaps the ball, missing defenders who have crept up late on the line.

He runs out of the pocket when there is zero need to, or when stepping up in the pocket and making a throw to an open receiver would be more prudent.

He steps to the line and rushes his cadence or can't keep it consistent, so his own players are fooled by his hard count. He runs a ragged sloppy operation.

So where is this good decision making? I think that is a byproduct of the file on him exiting Alabama, but we haven't seen that player here.

We've seen a guy who needs a third and 3 to keep a drive alive, then throws thirty yards downfield out of bounds instead.... dumb, not smart decision making.

But blame the weapons...

 

[mike_usagisan]

Everyone keeps perpetuating this myth… that Mac’s strength is decision making and his problem is a weak arm or his weapons.

Really... based on what?

Throwing back across the field not once, but twice last game... after getting away with it once. Does he think these defenders are dumb?

He throws high arcing back shoulder throws when he has WR's (Parker, Douglas) running free behind the defensive backs for easy TD's.

He throws 50/50 balls where only the defender can get them (Parker, Gesicki).

He holds the ball when he has receivers streaking free in front of his face.

He still misses free blitzes because he doesn't slow down and scan the field one last time before he snaps the ball, missing defenders who have crept up late on the line.

He runs out of the pocket when there is zero need to, or when stepping up in the pocket and making a throw to an open receiver would be more prudent.

He steps to the line and rushes his cadence or can't keep it consistent, so his own players are fooled by his hard count. He runs a ragged sloppy operation.

So where is this good decision making? I think that is a byproduct of the file on him exiting Alabama, but we haven't seen that player here.

We've seen a guy who needs a third and 3 to keep a drive alive, then throws thirty yards downfield out of bounds instead.... dumb, not smart decision making.

But blame the weapons...

I'm not. I'm saying Mac cannot run the offense as it is constructed with the suitable weapons around him. And it was constructed around his strengths. Mac wins when he knows where to go from the snap and can fire it quickly. When he has to hold the ball or go through his reads, things fall apart. For all the many reasons you point out, he either needs above-average talent to bail him out or we need to move on.

Basically, I'm agreeing with you but think the Pats could mask some of his bad play with better weapons. It's not a great route to go, but I don't know that a better answer at QB is going to come along.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm not. I'm saying Mac cannot run the offense as it is constructed with the suitable weapons around him. And it was constructed around his strengths. Mac wins when he knows where to go from the snap and can fire it quickly. When he has to hold the ball or go through his reads, things fall apart. For all the many reasons you point out, he either needs above-average talent to bail him out or we need to move on.

Basically, I'm agreeing with you but think the Pats could mask some of his bad play with better weapons. It's not a great route to go, but I don't know that a better answer at QB is going to come along.

Mike it's pointless arguing anything on Mac. Here's what I say. Let's see how the season goes here on out. If he looks like he did in Dallas wich I doubt he will.. then to @Wozzy and @PatsFan2 thier points then Mac is the issue.

I'm looking at the eagle eye view. It starts up front. If the line can continue to settle and open up running lanes then play action is back in the offense. Mac thrived under McDaniels becuase he was in play action all the team as teams had to respect the run game. Mac is good enough to lead this team.. he has 3s and 4s as his weapons and he pretty much has to make spaghetti with no sauce.

No matter what happens Mac or zap this season we can all agree as posters thier projects to be significant changes come the off season.

 

[PP2]

So we have to wait ten years like Geno Smith… while young QB’s like Burrow, Mahomes, Purdy, Herbert, rookie CJ Stroud and others play winning football?

Again… excuse making is for losers. Pretending a problem doesn’t exist is not how you fix said problem.

Cutting a QB after just 2-3 years if he doesn't become the next Brady is how you get to be the New York Jets.

 

[Real fan 02]

Cutting a QB after just 2-3 years if he doesn't become the next Brady is how you get to be the New York Jets.

And to your great point.. what do all those QBs have in common. #1 WRs.

 

[Bruins29]

What did Moss do for the GOAT? After having Doug Gabriel and reche Caldwell in 06.

In 06 they were a whisker away from going to the Superbowl. A Superbowl I am pretty sure they would have won.

So I am not sure the point you are making here. TB with his Welker, Moss, Stalworth and Gaffney went one game further and scored 14 points..

 

[Bruins29]

Mac is the issue.

Maybe its not that simple. Maybe its a combo of things like the line.

Anyway, your 2006 team is a perfect example of why it could be a Mac issue.

2006 Patriots scored a lot of points in the AFCCG and the D melted down. That was with no "NuMbEr 1 rECeIvEr"

2007 with arguably the best WR tandem of all time they go one more game and **** the bed.

 

[PatsFan2]

Cutting a QB after just 2-3 years if he doesn't become the next Brady is how you get to be the New York Jets.

Oh really let's wait on Mac Geno Smith...BB have another five years. The Cardinals went from Rosen to Murray in a year three years is more than enough time.