Patriots Training Camp Tuesday August 9th

[ashley]

— Speaking of Jonathan Jones, the veteran slot corner saw more reps on the outside than he had in any previous camp practice, with Marcus Jones and Bryant rotating inside. I think Jonathan playing outside would be fantastic as long as he can physically handle it. That would allow M. Jones and Wade to play inside.

— Defensive lineman LaBryan Ray is making a strong case to become the latest undrafted rookie to crack the Patriots’ Week 1 roster. He’s spent a lot of time in the backfield these last few weeks. This is great news. Is he making an impact on the line or playing just well enough to crack the 53...that's the question for me. IMO the line needs some help against the run.

— Matthew Judon and Anfernee Jennings both scored resounding wins over Herron on lineman 1-on-1s. Really happy to see Jennings playing well....about time.

- Herron has played reasonably well at left tackle in his career but traditionally has struggled on the right side, where he was stationed Monday with Wynn out. In case of emergency...Herron on the left (maybe Herron is better suited for Gap) and Onwenu on the right.

- Onwenu has been better at tackle than guard in his NFL career, though, and the Patriots seem to have some reservations about playing him at the latter this season, rotating him out for Arlington Hambright in the last several practices. As a 350-pound mauler, Onwenu seems better suited for New England’s old gap-based run scheme than the zone-blocking system they’ve rolled out this summer, as the latter typically favors more athletic blockers. Yep...but maybe Onwenu is better at RT then RG in Zone. I don't know why that would happen though. Hambright is a pleasant surprise.

Agree with all your points Zuma and I think LaByran Ray is making the team. From all we've heard and all that's been reported, he's been very active and disruptive and is seeing time with the first unit passing up Anderson.....If he stays healthy, I think we've found a player. He's somebody I'm really interested in seeing this week.

 

[RodThePat]

I think from a development standpoint you might be right. But from an outsider's evaluation standpoint, seeing them play another team tells me a bit more. No argument about the first preseason game though. We need to see how much the starters on both sides actually play before we can say anything really.

Maybe in the whole preseason combined you'll see about three drives worth of Patriots 1s versus another team's 1s. I don't really care how our first team offense looks like against backups or how our special teamers look against their special teamers. Combine that with the fact that there's no gameplanning and it's pretty much useless from an evaluation standpoint.

 

[Zuma]

Agree with all your points Zuma and I think LaByran Ray is making the team. From all we've heard and all that's been reported, he's been very active and disruptive and is seeing time with the first unit passing up Anderson.....If he stays healthy, I think we've found a player. He's somebody I'm really interested in seeing this week.

I'm just not a huge fan of Anderson....maybe it's the injuries, age (31)...IDK. Ray taking that spot is a better option...I hope.

 

[Sicilian]

Maybe in the whole preseason combined you'll see about three drives worth of Patriots 1s versus another team's 1s. I don't really care how our first team offense looks like backups or how our special teamers look against their special teamers. Combine that with the fact that there's no gameplanning and it's pretty much useless from an evaluation standpoint.

I think that's a bit harsh, but fair enough.

 

[RodThePat]

I think that's a bit harsh, but fair enough.

Bad teams play harder and play their starters longer, star-studded teams save their best players, mediocre teams usually have a lot of competition so guys are incredibly hungry for those games, while contenders know they don't mean anything and focus on small self improvements while trying to remain healthy. It's never really an even playing field. Joint practices are awesome for assessing where your team is, preseason games really aren't. At least in padded practices you have an inkling both sides of the ball are competing at a similar level trying to achieve the same things.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Padded practices are a whole lot more important and indicative of the overall state of the team than preseason games, especially the first one.

I tend to agree but I think it's entirely based on the competition in front of them.

I think back to when Stephen Neal was here trying to make the team.

When he was playing preseason games he was going up against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

When he was practicing he was locking horns with Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, the LBs, etc.

Facing that hell every day pretty much told BB all he needed to know about him.

 

[jah]

Agree with all your points Zuma and I think LaByran Ray is making the team. From all we've heard and all that's been reported, he's been very active and disruptive and is seeing time with the first unit passing up Anderson.....If he stays healthy, I think we've found a player. He's somebody I'm really interested in seeing this week.

Interesting, I haven't seen anything suggesting Ray has been taking some first team reps, but I would love to see Anderson not be part of the starting lineup.

 

[Sciz]

I'll bet we'll see him there for specific matchups, maybe even week 1 against Miami. With both Hill and Waddle on the field, one of those guys is likely to be closer to the boundary. If Marcus is ready to play a role week 1, having formations where both him and Jon are on the field together is their best way to matchup with that much speed.

Weeks 2 and 3 look okay too, with 5’10½” Diontae Johnson and Devin Duvernay both projected starters. Week 4 is more of a concern. The Packers could potentially put a pair of 6’5” guys out wide, although Watson is coming from North Dakota State and hasn’t practiced yet so maybe he won’t be contributing much.

 

[ashley]

Interesting, I haven't seen anything suggesting Ray has been taking some first team reps, but I would love to see Anderson not be part of the starting lineup.

Yeah, I forgot who it was who mentioned it, but Ray has been brought up by every beat writer as well as being disruptive.

I tend to agree with you on Anderson, would love to see someone that is more explosive and can make more plays...we don't need the "Steady Eddy" in there....we need more playmakers!!

 

[Sicilian]

Bad teams play harder and play their starters longer, star-studded teams save their best players, mediocre teams usually have a lot of competition so guys are incredibly hungry for those games, while contenders know they don't mean anything and focus on small self improvements while trying to remain healthy. It's never really an even playing field. Joint practices are awesome for assessing where your team is, preseason games really aren't. At least in padded practices you have an inkling both sides of the ball are competing at a similar level trying to achieve the same things.

I don't really disagree with you, I think it's close at least. My point is more that the feeling of "is our offense bad or is our defense good" is unavoidable when it's Pats vs. Pats, so it can be more illuminating (in some ways, not in others) when you're going up against another team. I get that it's not all 1's v 1's, but there's still value in it. For example, Jason McCourty thought he had a real chance to be cut in 2018, then had a great final preseason game. Maybe they would have kept him anyway because he's a vet, but the last performance (from the outside) made it more likely he stuck.

 

[RodThePat]

I don't really disagree with you, I think it's close at least. My point is more that the feeling of "is our offense bad or is our defense good" is unavoidable when it's Pats vs. Pats, so it can be more illuminating (in some ways, not in others) when you're going up against another team. I get that it's not all 1's v 1's, but there's still value in it. For example, Jason McCourty thought he had a real chance to be cut in 2018, then had a great final preseason game. Maybe they would have kept him anyway because he's a vet, but the last performance (from the outside) made it more likely he stuck.

I don't think it is. The 2007 team's offense was ridiculous in camp and everyone on the beat was impressed with their performance, but I can't recall any concerns about the defense being expressed. Same for the 2014 team. You can absolutely tell what's poor execution/performance and what's the other side of the ball just playing lights out. The fact that everyone is expressing the same concerns over the Patriots offensive performance tells me they don't think the 2000 Ravens is on the other side of the ball.

 

[Sicilian]

I don't think it is. The 2007 team's offense was ridiculous in camp and everyone on the beat was impressed with their performance, but I can't recall any concerns about the defense being expressed. Same for the 2014 team. You can absolutely tell what's poor execution/performance and what's the other side of the ball just playing lights out. The fact that everyone is expressing the same concerns over the Patriots offensive performance tells me they don't think the 2000 Ravens is on the other side of the ball.

Sure, but those are two pretty extreme examples: A record breaking offense and one that is clearly doing poorly. In 99% of preseasons, what we usually hear about is a back and forth. Defense wins a day, offense wins a day. Defense strings a couple good days together, then the offense does. You're right that, at this point, it seems pretty obvious the offense is struggling. I just want to see what happens against another team, that's all.

 

[Zuma]

Sure, but those are two pretty extreme examples: A record breaking offense and one that is clearly doing poorly. In 99% of preseasons, what we usually hear about is a back and forth. Defense wins a day, offense wins a day. Defense strings a couple good days together, then the offense does. You're right that, at this point, it seems pretty obvious the offense is struggling. I just want to see what happens against another team, that's all.

This is very true. It's usually back and forth in years past with the offense and defense and it was "somewhat" that way very early in camp. Not so much now.

 

[ashley]

 

[VectorPrime]

If the offense is having trouble blocking at 3/4 speed it’s not the defense being great.

 

[ashley]

If the offense is having trouble blocking at 3/4 speed it’s not the defense being great.

It wasn't 3/4 speed...yesterday's practice for example was in pads and was at full speed.

 

[VectorPrime]

It wasn't 3/4 speed...yesterday's practice for example was in pads and was at full speed.

There have been 10 practices so far I didn’t say they were all half or 3/4 speed. But some were and the offense was still a mess.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

I love TC. For an hour or two a day work isn't a complete drag.

 

[ashley]

There have been 10 practices so far I didn’t say they were all half or 3/4 speed. But some were and the offense was still a mess.

My apologies, I thought you were referring to "all" being at 3/4 speed.

I haven't seen you posting a lot and wanted to make sure you were up to date on what's going on.

 

[ashley]