Patriots name Matt Groh as Director of Player Personnel

[Stu Pidassle]

Somebody mentioned nepotism & I've been looking much more askance at that lately... That shovel was cool until it stopped working, then it was just a guy on the sidelines looking like he missed his improv class for this.

Hiring the kids of old connections seems bad on the surface. In a glass is half full world, having access to young talent with a life long football background is beneficial. From the outside it appears as if BB expects that everyone pay their dues and earn larger roles. Replacing coaches with younger people with organizational background is less disruptive than bringing in a bunch of experienced coaches from the outside if you are trying to maintain a culture. Another amazing part of sustaining the dynasty. Hopefully it will work out in this case.

 

[chief1]

well this means that Wolf is staying...yay ! We lost too many personnel this off season. And yes last draft was great. Hoping for another one just like it.

How do we know Wolf is staying? Has he been assigned a front office position?

 

[venecol]

How do we know Wolf is staying? Has he been assigned a front office position?

Wolf and Groh were at the Pro Bowl with some other scouts.

 

[Sciz]

Matt Groh focuses his practice on complex and general litigation. Prior to joining the firm, Mr. Groh worked in the Executive Office of the President in Political Affairs and Presidential Personnel. He also served as personal aide and advance agent to Cabinet Secretaries Mel Martinez and Alphonso Jackson at the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Mr. Groh received a bachelor of arts degree from Princeton University and a juris doctor degree from the University of Virginia School of Law. While in law school, Mr. Groh was a member of the Student Bar Association, Virginia Journal of Social Policy & the Law, and served as notes development editor for the Virginia Sports and Entertainment Law Journal. (December 1, 2008)

https://www.williamsmullen.com/news/seven-associates-join-williams-mullen’s-richmond-office

Quite the roundabout way to end up working in the NFL when his brother took the much more conventional approach of working for their dad.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Wow, what could have been. Samuel is such a weapon.

Not only did BB whiff on Deebo Samuel in the first round, but he could have snagged a Pro Bowler-level talent such as AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Mecole Hardman, or Diontae Johnson in the second round, but instead they took JoeJaun Williams!

Then in the 4th round they decided not to draft Hunter Renfrow but instead got Hjalte Froholdt

It was one of the most disastrous drafts in Patriots recent history and helped push Brady out the door and to a team that actually had someone to throw to.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

It was Harry, the scout team were against that pick because of the blatant issues Harry has had with separation and route running, it was considered a weakness that will hamper his success in the NFL, they preferred and saw Samuel and Brown as a better fit over Harry. Harry had a great interview and impressed BB there, so based on the interview BB picked Harry and "overruled" the scout proposal. I can't recall whether any scout resigned after that.

I certainly would have resigned and gone to a team that listened to what I said. Imagine doing all that work and having it ignored by your boss who makes an idiotic pick....

 

[jdlboot14]

Groh's promotion suggests Matty P is coming back to the sidelines - which is likely the best place for him. I do believe he is a smart and effective coach. He tanked as HC trying to be BB in Detroit, but a little humble pie and hunger (pun intended) could help our coaching staff. Whether back in the Defensive mix, or new perspective in the Offensive game planning - he knows football.
BOLD prediction - he could end up calling plays - just because of his breadth of experience doing it in big moments on the D. The guy was a literal rocket scientist, he could accelerate the Offense too (pun intended again)

 

[UrbanCowboy]

Not only did BB whiff on Deebo Samuel in the first round, but he could have snagged a Pro Bowler-level talent such as AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Mecole Hardman, or Diontae Johnson in the second round, but instead they took JoeJaun Williams!

Then in the 4th round they decided not to draft Hunter Renfrow but instead got Hjalte Froholdt

It was one of the most disastrous drafts in Patriots recent history and helped push Brady out the door and to a team that actually had someone to throw to.

ouch, that just hurts... stop it

 

[upstater1]

Not only did BB whiff on Deebo Samuel in the first round, but he could have snagged a Pro Bowler-level talent such as AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Mecole Hardman, or Diontae Johnson in the second round, but instead they took JoeJaun Williams!

Then in the 4th round they decided not to draft Hunter Renfrow but instead got Hjalte Froholdt

It was one of the most disastrous drafts in Patriots recent history and helped push Brady out the door and to a team that actually had someone to throw to.

I think they blew the early rounds for sure, but I mean no one was complaining here about Chase Winovich when they could have taken any of the guys you mentioned after him.

Same really goes for Harry. People were 90%+ happy on this board about the pick, and people linked to many glowing reports from scouts and evaluators. Meanwhile, DK Metcalf had a million detractors. The things we're saying about Harry now were said exactly about Metcalf predraft.

So, in retrospect you'll always find reports to reinforce the reality of how these players performed. The trick is to use trusted sources, and apparently Belichick did not.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Then in the 4th round they decided not to draft Hunter Renfrow but instead got Hjalte Froholdt

They still had Edelman at that point and they drafted Berrios the year before, so I can understand passing on Renfrow.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Groh's promotion suggests Matty P is coming back to the sidelines - which is likely the best place for him.

Possible but not really. Zeigler was D of PP last year and Fat Matt was signing contracts.

I do believe he is a smart and effective coach. He tanked as HC trying to be BB in Detroit, but a little humble pie and hunger (pun intended) could help our coaching staff. Whether back in the Defensive mix, or new perspective in the Offensive game planning - he knows football.
BOLD prediction - he could end up calling plays - just because of his breadth of experience doing it in big moments on the D. The guy was a literal rocket scientist, he could accelerate the Offense too (pun intended again)

Fat Matt gets way too much crap here. He a good coach....just not a good head coach.

 

[venecol]

I think they blew the early rounds for sure, but I mean no one was complaining here about Chase Winovich when they could have taken any of the guys you mentioned after him.

Same really goes for Harry. People were 90%+ happy on this board about the pick, and people linked to many glowing reports from scouts and evaluators. Meanwhile, DK Metcalf had a million detractors. The things we're saying about Harry now were said exactly about Metcalf predraft.

So, in retrospect you'll always find reports to reinforce the reality of how these players performed. The trick is to use trusted sources, and apparently Belichick did not.

But anything said here is irrelevant, isn't it. His scouts, however, are another story. Not listening to the advice of people you pay to specifically do a job is dumb AF.

 

[Sicilian]

Possible but not really. Zeigler was D of PP last year and Fat Matt was signing contracts.

Fat Matt gets way too much crap here. He a good coach....just not a good head coach.

Patricia gets a bad rep here because, stylistically, the defenses he coordinated seemed more passive. How much of that was his philosophy versus the players he had at his disposal is a good question, but regardless of style his results were pretty much the same over the long haul as anyone who's served as DC (either named or unnamed) in the Belichick era. The exception there being Crennel in the first dynasty, but those defenses were also VERY talented at all three levels and could play by very different rules.

Most often I see people point to the stylistic difference between 2017 under Patricia and 2018 under Flores. But here are the defenses rankings for those years:

2017 - 4th in yards allowed, 5th in points allowed.
2018 - 21st in yards allowed, 7th in point allowed.

The big difference came in the playoffs, where the 2018 defense had a really nice run (capped off by a dominant SB performance), where 2017 ended with a really sour taste defensively (which may have had a factor at play that I won't mention here for fear of derailing the thread entirely).

 

[venecol]

Groh's promotion suggests Matty P is coming back to the sidelines - which is likely the best place for him. I do believe he is a smart and effective coach. He tanked as HC trying to be BB in Detroit, but a little humble pie and hunger (pun intended) could help our coaching staff. Whether back in the Defensive mix, or new perspective in the Offensive game planning - he knows football.
BOLD prediction - he could end up calling plays - just because of his breadth of experience doing it in big moments on the D. The guy was a literal rocket scientist, he could accelerate the Offense too (pun intended again)

Just because someone is wicked smart doesn't mean they can do anything and everything effectively. You can't learn or replace experience.

 

[venecol]

The big difference came in the playoffs, where the 2018 defense had a really nice run (capped off by a dominant SB performance), where 2017 ended with a really sour taste defensively (which may have had a factor at play that I won't mention here for fear of derailing the thread entirely).

In the lead-up to Super Bowl LII against the Philadelphia Eagles, Patriots cornerback Malcolm Butler and defensive coordinator Matt Patricia traded heated words at practice over the former Super Bowl hero's lack of effort. Butler was demoted. At the team party after New England's loss, Butler responded to teammates asking why he was benched by saying, 'These dudes,' referring to the coaches, according to the book, 'these mother f---ers.'"

The story doesn't mention the argument was between Butler and Little Steven, and Little Steven went crying to Fat Matt, who proceeded to bench him with Bill's backing. Fact.

 

[upstater1]

But anything said here is irrelevant, isn't it. His scouts, however, are another story. Not listening to the advice of people you pay to specifically do a job is dumb AF.

I'm talking about reports from scouts as regards Harry and Metcalf. They get posted here after the draft.

And scouts get things wrong too-- are there examples of Belichick pushing, say, Dugger when scouts were like, no go with Winfield? We don't know.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Patricia gets a bad rep here because, stylistically, the defenses he coordinated seemed more passive. How much of that was his philosophy versus the players he had at his disposal is a good question, but regardless of style his results were pretty much the same over the long haul as anyone who's served as DC (either named or unnamed) in the Belichick era. The exception there being Crennel in the first dynasty, but those defenses were also VERY talented at all three levels and could play by very different rules.

Most often I see people point to the stylistic difference between 2017 under Patricia and 2018 under Flores. But here are the defenses rankings for those years:

2017 - 4th in yards allowed, 5th in points allowed.
2018 - 21st in yards allowed, 7th in point allowed.

The big difference came in the playoffs, where the 2018 defense had a really nice run (capped off by a dominant SB performance), where 2017 ended with a really sour taste defensively (which may have had a factor at play that I won't mention here for fear of derailing the thread entirely).

As a rule of thumb, great defenses have great talent.

Lousy defenses do not.

When Fat Matt took over in 2010 and got the title in 2012, the defenses were very meh. Once they started adding cover corners like Talib and later Revis and Gilly and pass rushers like Jones, etc run stuffers like High, Flowers, Uncle Phil, etc they became a very good D.

 

[Sciz]

Was looking up the rest of the personnel department and stumbled upon this. Former Pro Scout Jordan Hein now lists himself as an employee of the Raiders organization. It gets him significantly closer to his hometown in Arizona.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordon-hein-215245100

 

[Love The Drake]

Was looking up the rest of the personnel department and stumbled upon this. Former Pro Scout Jordan Hein now lists himself as an employee of the Raiders organization. It gets him significantly closer to his hometown in Arizona.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordon-hein-215245100

Way more to come.

We just need Groh and the Wolf.
But raiders fired like 4 big guys in the front office.
Our pockets are being picked.
I read Josh may want to trade for Agholar.
This would put Josh in my good graces.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Was looking up the rest of the personnel department and stumbled upon this. Former Pro Scout Jordan Hein now lists himself as an employee of the Raiders organization. It gets him significantly closer to his hometown in Arizona.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordon-hein-215245100

I don't want to click on it. Might think i'm some kind of stalker.

A couple of weeks ago I accidentally clicked on Mike Kensil's . That was stalking..