Pass rushing OLBs addressed

[pats_premi]

And then there were five:

With the release of Angelo Craig, the OLBs on the roster are Thomas, Woods, Banta-Cain, Crable & Redd. A rather short list for this time of year, with no obvious cuts.

Some of the OTA blogs seems to indicate that Vince Redd is not getting many reps on defence. I wonder if he is going make the 53 man roster this season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

So, Its Belichick's fault that Tedy Bruschi had a stroke? It's Belichick's fault that Ted Johnson hid the severity of his concussion at the exit physical only to have it picked up at the start of TC, forcing him to retire? Its BB's fault that Colvin got injured in the 2nd game he played in for the Patriots. Its BB's fault that Jeremy Mincey didn't put 100% effort into his TC because the thought he'd be given a year to get things under his belt?

The only BB-related move at LB I truly disagree with was cutting Justin Rogers for Chad #@%#@ing Brown in 2007.

 

[mgteich]

While I think Redd is the obvious cut, I do agree that this is a short list for mini-camp. I would expect us to add a veteran or two for Training Camp.

And then there were five:

With the release of Angelo Craig, the OLBs on the roster are Thomas, Woods, Banta-Cain, Crable & Redd. A rather short list for this time of year, with no obvious cuts.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Should we start beating the drum for Greg Hardy in 2010 (6'5" 260 <4.7)?

If we do, he might not be there for the Patriots at #32.

 

[cstjohn17]

While I think Redd is the obvious cut, I do agree that this is a short list for mini-camp. I would expect us to add a veteran or two for Training Camp.

Redd is on the bubble to be sure but honestly I can't see any way that TBC makes this team.

 

[pats_premi]

It appears as if BB values the OLB's abilty to set the edge and drop back into coverage more than the pass rush. For the pass rush, I wonder if they will safety blitzing more with additions of Chung and Tank ? They had some success last season with Meriweather sacking the QB few times.

 

[cstjohn17]

I think, depending on how Woods and Crable look, that there might be something to that Derrick Burgess rumor.

OLB is very thin, adding Ellis or Burgess would make a big difference to the overall depth.

OLB - Adalius Thomas
OLB - Pierre Woods
OLB - Shawn Crable
OLB - Tully Banta-Cain
OLB - Vince Redd

Although Burgess is listed with a $3.5 salary, no way that makes sense. So my scenario focuses on Ellis. Ellis could come in and play a Vrabel/Willie McG role or move to end in shifts to the 4-3. It would also allow Thomas to shift back inside when needed. Plus he has been productive, producing more sacks the last two years than all the Patriots OLBs put together.

Eliis - Mayo - Thomas - Crable/Woods <-- looks pretty good

Sign him with my endorsement, this could be the final move to make the deep almost as deep as the 2007 team (on paper).

 

[AzPatsFan]

OLB is very thin, adding Ellis or Burgess would make a big difference to the overall depth.

OLB - Adalius Thomas
OLB - Pierre Woods
OLB - Shawn Crable
OLB - Tully Banta-Cain
OLB - Vince Redd

Although Burgess is listed with a $3.5 salary, no way that makes sense. So my scenario focuses on Ellis. Ellis could come in and play a Vrabel/Willie McG role or move to end in shifts to the 4-3. It would also allow Thomas to shift back inside when needed. Plus he has been productive, producing more sacks the last two years than all the Patriots OLBs put together.

Eliis - Mayo - Thomas - Crable/Woods <-- looks pretty good

Sign him with my endorsement, this could be the final move to make the deep almost as deep as the 2007 team (on paper).

In the years where the Line backing was a team strength, they seldom had more than three genuine players at ILB and OLB. The balance of the LB squad were Larry Izzo, ST types.

Yet that was called good depth. More often than not, one of the big six was injured. One year it was TJ; another year it was Tedy; another year it was Colvin. Willie would periodically have problems with his recurring back injury, etc.

Numbers wise we have more genuine LBs today, rather than pure ST types. The question is whether we have enough "good" ones. From my perspective, Pierre Woods won a job as a regular last year, only to see it ended by an IR Jaw injury, three games later. I thought it was very significant hat he forced Vrabel to the weak side; and even more significant that Belichick freely traded Mike in the Offseason.

Crabel was a scrawny, but prized high draft pick, that everyone said needed a year in the weight room. He has had that now. TBC is a proven better than average pass rusher, and NFL level reserve, at WOLB. So he fits as an Adalius backup.

Whether the Patriots can find one starting quality player out of those three, Woods, TBC, and Crabel, with a possible but unlikely addition of Redd, we fans just don't know. But the Coaches seem unconcerned, and they see these guys close up, unlike us.

 

[cstjohn17]

In the years where the Line backing was a team strength, they seldom had more than three genuine players at ILB and OLB. The balance of the LB squad were Larry Izzo, ST types.

Yet that was called good depth. More often than not, one of the big six was injured. One year it was TJ; another year it was Tedy; another year it was Colvin. Willie would periodically have problems with his recurring back injury, etc.

Numbers wise we have more genuine LBs today, rather than pure ST types. The question is whether we have enough "good" ones. From my perspective, Pierre Woods won a job as a regular last year, only to see it ended by an IR Jaw injury, three games later. I thought it was very significant hat he forced Vrabel to the weak side; and even more significant that Belichick freely traded Mike in the Offseason.

Crabel was a scrawny, but prized high draft pick, that everyone said needed a year in the weight room. He has had that now. TBC is a proven better than average pass rusher, and NFL level reserve, at WOLB. So he fits as an Adalius backup.

Whether the Patriots can find one starting quality player out of those three, Woods, TBC, and Crabel, with a possible but unlikely addition of Redd, we fans just don't know. But the Coaches seem unconcerned, and they see these guys close up, unlike us.

I agree with your assessment of previous LB cores, however I don't see 3 quality starters at either ILB or OLB.

1) Quality Starters - Thomas, Mayo
2) Quality backups\ ok starters - Guyton, Woods
3) Could be ok situationally but should not start - Crable, Bruschi
4) Really unknown and can't be relied upon - TBC, Redd

Getting a player now at level 2 helps the overall depth, especially if the player is an OLB. Jason Taylor fit this bill and maybe Ellis could as well.

TBC cannot be trusted or relied upon any under circumstance, I don't see him making the team.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I agree with your assessment of previous LB cores, however I don't see 3 quality starters at either ILB or OLB.

1) Quality Starters - Thomas, Mayo
2) Quality backups\ ok starters - Guyton, Woods
3) Could be ok situationally but should not start - Crable, Bruschi
4) Really unknown and can't be relied upon - TBC, Redd

Getting a player now at level 2 helps the overall depth, especially if the player is an OLB. Jason Taylor fit this bill and maybe Ellis could as well.

TBC cannot be trusted or relied upon any under circumstance, I don't see him making the team.

That is a reasonable opinion given that the questionables have not yet demonstrated to the fans on the field, that Guyton and Woods belong as better than acceptable starters, as of yet.

I am extrapolating some, I agree, but my judgement is aided by the apparent comfort and implicit confidence displayed in trading Vrabel. The Coaches would not be as sanguine were the openings not well covered. With Lenon,t here are now two vets that could replace a Guyton failure. So I disagree wit hthe sentiment that there are not three good /ok starters there. Woods has already demonstrated that he can play SOLB, so a failure is less possible. Yet with a Woods failure, there are only two talented, but unproven, youngsters as alternatives.

I don't know what you expected of TBC, but I see no problem with him as a reserve to Adalius thomas at WOLB. Just who would you see beating him out? I think there are two or three players on the cut list ahead of TBC, like Alexander, Appleby ,and even Redd, not to mention Tedy deciding to retire.

 

[cstjohn17]

Well they tried to update OLB post draft but were turned down by both Jason Taylor and Greg Ellis. Last chance in Buress and I seem him as the worst fit of the three.

Makes me believe that they saw an opportunity to improve the position. Time for the young guys to 'grow on the job'. A 25 PPG offense is going to help.