Our Offense - Decisions at OT and RB

[mgteich]

Perhaps this is true. I tend to doubt it. I think that top level blockers are very hard to find. Much of my amazement with Gronk is his contribution as a blocker. A "catching" TE can easily be replaced in an offense by a slot receiver. Such player is a luxury. I'm fine with Hollister if Bennett retires (which seems likely.

Sure, we should negotiate Allen's deal if we can. However, I would keep on the team for 2018 under his current contract. He has had a yer to learn the offense. Perhaps, he will be more valuable as our #8 or #9 receiving target next year. [In any game, in addition to our #2 TE, we have 3-4 WR's, 2-3 RB's and a TE as targets].

Besides, blocking tight ends are easier to find than catching tight ends.

 

[maust]

It seems strange considering how many seasons in the Brady/Belichick era there wasn't much behind the top couple of guys but the WR position is definitely a position of strength for this team. There are decidedly more bodies, without cap busting contracts, than there are slots available. Currently there are 8 WR's under contract for '18. Cooks ($8.5m), Edelman ($4.2m), Hogan ($3.3m), Dorsett ($1.5m), Britt ($1.5m), Mitchell ($800k), Hollister ($555k), McCarron ($555k). The number will bump to 9 with what should be the inevitable re-signing of Amendola. Both Dorsett & Britt's contracts expire after this year but with their affordable cap numbers it wouldn't be surprising to me to see one or both of them as some part of a late round draft day package trade.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Although our offense is strong, think of an unknown wild card. Remember the year we traded for Moss? I am not saying something like that is imminent just keep your mind open.

 

[captain stone]

I see no reason to cut GILLISLIE...

I also expect ALLEN to stay...

Neither of them will be retained at their current salaries/cap hits. Book it.

 

[maineman209]

Then we wait til March 14.

If I read Miguel's page right, there is an out in both Bennetts' & Allens' contract - so there would be no cap hit if either or both were to be released. 2018 and 2019 base salaries for Allen are ridiculously high - 4.5 & 6.9 million vs 3.6 and 5.6 for Bennett.

Dollar for dollar, Bennett is a better deal, and I would rather have him at 31 than Dwayne Allen at 28. Allens deal is too big in the back two years - so if you are going to extend him, he needs to significantly drop those base salaries. Moving forward without addressing it, that's a huge chunk of change to carve out of the slim cap room the Pats have to work with.

Besides, blocking tight ends are easier to find than catching tight ends.

However, it all does depend on 1. what Gronk's status for 2018 is 2. Whether or not Marty wants to play in 2018 3. If Allen wants to stay with a reworked lesser deal.

Those future salaries are meaningless; they vaporize if the player is cut. So, comparing Allen's fantasy future salaries to Bennett's fantasy future salaries is also meaningless. Both will likely be cut unless they agree to restructurings that reduce their 2018 cap hits. Bennett will need to be cut before his $2M roster bonus comes due on March 14th, unless he's agreed to a restructuring by then. Cutting Allen can wait all the way through to the end of Camp, if necessary (though I strongly doubt that restructuring negotiations would last even until the end of March).

Bennett offers no long term upside. Allen does.

For the Pats in 2017, Allen was effectively "only" a blocking TE. However, he was among the best blocking TEs in the league (and, no, really good blocking TEs are NOT all that easy to find - especially for the Pats). OTOH, TEs who can catch but who can't block for s**t are relatively easy to find. Just look at the top 100 picks of pretty much any mock draft.

 

[maineman209]

It's hard to envision Gillislee being retained likewise with Bennett and Allen, at least under their existing contracts. Beyond that there's the question of what the cap hit will be to re-sign Solder before any of the other FA's contracts, beyond Amendola's, can reasonably be addressed.

I absolutely do NOT understand the pervasive loathing for Gillislee around here. A healthy, NFL-experienced, 27-year-old #4RB who can produce 40+ yards per game for ya and 4 TDs in a half-season of work for only $2M is actually a pretty good deal in the NFL today.

There's no guarantee that any shiny new 2018 draft prospect will be able to produce like that.

 

[supafly]

Although our offense is strong, think of an unknown wild card. Remember the year we traded for Moss? I am not saying something like that is imminent just keep your mind open.

The year we traded for Moss we had such studs as Doug Gabriel and Reche Caldwell leading the way as our receiving options. Not really getting the comparison.

 

[DarrylS]

I expect Bennett to retire. If not, I could see him renegotiating with us.
.

Not so sure about that, he seems to be in a "I don't give a f... "state of mind, he has already made about 33 Million playing football and has a post NFL career mapped out.. not sure he can be counted to produce as this team would expect him to..

 

[maineman209]

Although our offense is strong, think of an unknown wild card. Remember the year we traded for Moss? I am not saying something like that is imminent just keep your mind open.

Didn't the Pats kinda do that already when they traded for Cooks?

 

[Pape]

a blocking TE.

They are a dime a dozen. The Patriots past rosters are littered with them. Dwayne Allen being just the latest, and for the life of me I cannot understand why people become insanely devoted to guys like this. They are jags.

 

[BTTA]

...Currently there are 8 WR's under contract for '18. Cooks ($8.5m), Edelman ($4.2m), Hogan ($3.3m), Dorsett ($1.5m), Britt ($1.5m), Mitchell ($800k), Hollister ($555k), McCarron ($555k). The number will bump to 9 with what should be the inevitable re-signing of Amendola.

I think we can be lulled to complacency by the length of that list and the familiarity of the names. There are some serious issues about injury recovery (Edelman, Mitchell), durability and aging (Hogan and Amendola), and the need to make a "second year with Brady" jump that can be elusive (Dorsett, Britt).

 

[maust]

I absolutely do NOT understand the pervasive loathing for Gillislee around here. A healthy, NFL-experienced, 27-year-old #4RB who can produce 40+ yards per game for ya and 4 TDs in a half-season of work for only $2M is actually a pretty good deal in the NFL today.

There's no guarantee that any shiny new 2018 draft prospect will be able to produce like that.

No loathing on my part, I appreciate what he can bring to the table. My observation was based on his accrued inactives. The Pats need space and if they can pay a vet minimum vs $2.2m for that slot I believe they will.

 

[maineman209]

The Patriots past rosters are littered with them.

Dozens of them, especially if you include off-season rosters.

Virtually none of them stuck on the Pats roster for more than one season because they simply weren't good enough. The Pats had three of them at the start of the 2017 league year and then traded for Allen.

The most recent exception to "not sticking" was Hooman, who lasted for three seasons and change. I constantly heard the same "dime a dozen" common wisdom claptrap about him the whole time.

The fact is that most NFL teams go through a lot of "blocking TEs" before they find one they are willing to stick with. Sure, "blocking TEs" are easy to find. Good blocking TEs, not so much.

So, you noting how many blocking TEs the Pats have gone through over the years basically proves my point.

 

[maineman209]

No loathing on my part, I appreciate what he can bring to the table. My observation was based on his accrued inactives. The Pats need space and if they can pay a vet minimum vs $2.2m for that slot I believe they will.

Gillislee was inactive because he didn't fit what the 2017 offense needed to do as well as the other RBs.

Experienced NFL RBs who may be able to contribute as much as Gillislee and who would work for the vet minimum are not really that easy to find. Moreover, Gillislee already has a year's experience in the offense, which a new guy wouldn't. Why start from scratch with a new guy just to save maybe $1M?

 

[Pape]

So, you noting how many blocking TEs the Pats have gone through over the years basically proves my point.

Proves your point? It does the opposite. Those guys are plug and play, and are easily replaceable. Skill sets may vary between those guys, but basically its a wash.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Didn't the Pats kinda do that already when they traded for Cooks?

Cooks is a good Cat er eh kid so I admit that I cannot promise another great find like him. Maybe a healthy Julian Edelman will provide added ammunition for the offense.

 

[maineman209]

Cooks is a good Cat er eh kid so I admit that I cannot promise another great find like him. Maybe a healthy Julian Edelman will provide added ammunition for the offense.

Moss/Welker > Cooks/Edelman?

Of course, Moss/Welker didn't have Gronk.

 

[maineman209]

Proves your point? It does the opposite. Those guys are plug and play, and are easily replaceable. Skill sets may vary between those guys, but basically its a wash.

Plug and Play? You mean like WRs? Or like OL?

According to Belchick himself, TE is perhaps the most difficult non-QB position to learn on the offense, since the players need to know everything that the OL does and everything that the WRs do.

 

[TomPatriot]

They are a dime a dozen. The Patriots past rosters are littered with them. Dwayne Allen being just the latest, and for the life of me I cannot understand why people become insanely devoted to guys like this. They are jags.

He is not a great player but Allen is a better blocker than just about all of the past Pats TEs. Excellent blocking TEs are not jags.

 

[patriot1136]

I like Hollister and hope he can improve overall. Couldn't he be trained to block better? What about Will Tye on the practice squad?