OT: The Chiefs had "Super Bowl fatigue"

[1960Pats]

His longevity or lack of it will be what determines how "great" he is. Another knee injury will knock some of it off and we know how often those happen in the game. I don't see him coming close to how psychotic brady had to be to do what he did. The man truly is one of a kind where they broke the mold after making him.

In the Brady 6 video his college counselor explained that Brady had a very strong respect for authority. IOW, Brady was the perfect QB for a taskmaster like Bill. Luckily, Drew went down and Brady got his chance and never let go of it. Who knows what would have happened had Drew not been injured?

 

[ErniesPinkStripes]

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[RobertWeathers]

Who knows what would have happened had Drew not been injured?

Keep in mind leading up to his injury, Drew was playing like absolute crap. We had 18 games worth of film. It was obvious he was not a fit for what Bill and Charlie expected from the QB position.

Speculation but I firmly believe if they were sitting at 1-4, 2-5, 2-6, etc, Bill was going to start to integrate Tom into the lineup (tail end of blowouts, etc). Very similar to how they handled the Cam Newton situation in 2020.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

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I want one!

 

[The Brandon Five]

It's there.

Those other columns were hard to see on a phone. My bad.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

The Chiefs have no identity.

The skill positions are a hodgepodge of guys at the end of their careers and unproven first and second year guys

Pacheco looked like he’d be good but he got hurt and when he came back he looked terrible.

The defense was solid, and great at times. They’re well coached and have an all world QB who didn’t have a great season

2006 Patriots vibes (but a little better)

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Chiefs have no identity.

They absolutely have an identity. What does that even mean?

Their identity is their future HoF QB & coach and a defense which consistently goes to the Super Bowl. Sound familiar?

The skill positions are a hodgepodge of guys at the end of their careers and unproven first and second year guys

Pacheco looked like he’d be good but he got hurt and when he came back he looked terrible.

The defense was solid, and great at times. They’re well coached and have an all world QB who didn’t have a great season

If Pacheco and Rice come back to 2023 form with Worthy that'll be a step in the right direction.

2006 Patriots vibes (but a little better)

To me, the 2024 Chiefs were the 2019 Patriots only they went farther but same situation. Good D that finally collapsed due to stress carrying a pedestrian offense because their line sucked and got their QB killed, lost their top WR to injury and all-pro TE fizzled due to age (Gronk retired). Bands-aid help couldn't stop the bleeding.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

They absolutely have an identity. What does that even mean?

Their identity is their future HoF QB & coach and a defense which consistently goes to the Super Bowl. Sound familiar?

If Pacheco and Rice come back to 2023 form with Worthy that'll be a step in the right direction.



To me, the 2024 Chiefs were the 2019 Patriots only they went farther but same situation. Good D that finally collapsed due to stress carrying a pedestrian offense because their line sucked and got their QB killed, lost their top WR to injury and all-pro TE fizzled due to age (Gronk retired). Bands-aid help couldn't stop the bleeding.

Having an all world QB who had an off season isn’t an identity. . The whole offense is a mess. It was scarped together to make up for injuries., it’s full of Old free agents and mediocre to bad draft picks at skill positions. Kelce isn’t long term, Hunt isn’t long term, Hopkins isn’t long term. Hollywood Brown isn’t long term, Smtih-Shuster isn’t long term

As for defense, we all admire Chris jones who’s on the wrong side of 30 What’s the rest of the defense that’s defined the team? George Karlaftis? Tershawn Wharton? I don’t consider either to be building blocks of your future

 

[RobertWeathers]

Having an all world QB who had an off season isn’t an identity. . The whole offense is a mess. It was scarped together to make up for injuries., it’s full of Old free agents and mediocre to bad draft picks at skill positions. Kelce isn’t long term, Hunt isn’t long term, Hopkins isn’t long term. Hollywood Brown isn’t long term, Smtih-Shuster isn’t long term

As for defense, we all admire Chris jones who’s on the wrong side of 30 What’s the rest of the defense that’s defined the team? George Karlaftis? Tershawn Wharton? I don’t consider either to be building blocks of your future

Sure it is. You are confusing identity with execution.

Their offense runs through Mahomes. He throws the ball and runs it. That's regardless who catches the passes. That is the identity.

If they pivoted and ran it 40 times a game, that is changing the identity...just like what the 2018 Patriots did. Before that Tom threw it 50 times a game and running was an afterthought.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

Having an all world QB who had an off season isn’t an identity. . The whole offense is a mess. It was scarped together to make up for injuries., it’s full of Old free agents and mediocre to bad draft picks at skill positions. Kelce isn’t long term, Hunt isn’t long term, Hopkins isn’t long term. Hollywood Brown isn’t long term, Smtih-Shuster isn’t long term

As for defense, we all admire Chris jones who’s on the wrong side of 30 What’s the rest of the defense that’s defined the team? George Karlaftis? Tershawn Wharton? I don’t consider either to be building blocks of your future

I'm not a Chiefs fan but I think you are undervaluing the fact that this franchise is pretty well run.

We've seen firsthand over a 20-year period how good coaching and a great QB can make up for a lot of deficiencies in both personnel and talent. It was never the Chiefs plan to have Hopkins and Smith-Shuster be focal points in the passing game for the long or short term. The Rice injury I think put a dent in their plans.

This was not a great season for the Chiefs despite their record, and the Eagles exposed some major deficiencies in the O-line, which I expect the Chiefs will prioritize this offseason. I'm not sure what Rice's timetable to return is (he has some legal issues to work out as well IIRC), but if he comes back healthy and Worthy doesn't have a sophomore slump that's a pretty decent top two targets. If they can fix the line and give Mahomes time, I expect him to at least return to top 7 QB status (which he was nowhere near this season).

I agree Kelce is getting long in the tooth, but he has been faltering the last couple of seasons (including last year when they won the SB). His current production while still good won't be nearly as difficult to replace as it was a few years ago.

As for the defense, despite looking bad in the SB, they still have a very good coach who will maximize guys and put them in position to make plays, much like BB often did for the Pats, often with guys no one else wanted.

Does this all translate to a Chiefs dynasty that will match the Pats? No way in hell. I just don't think anything like that will ever happen again. But I don't think they're as dead in the water as some are saying.

 

[TheRainMaker]

In the Brady 6 video his college counselor explained that Brady had a very strong respect for authority. IOW, Brady was the perfect QB for a taskmaster like Bill. Luckily, Drew went down and Brady got his chance and never let go of it. Who knows what would have happened had Drew not been injured?

They wouldn't have made the playoffs and Bill gets fired. Drew didn't fit the offense and would've struggled even more without his favorite WR in Glenn. Drew had already lost a game week 1 against a team that would end in last place where Brady didn't lose to ONE team that was under .500.

Brady himself was pretty rough, but he understood that he wasn't going to be able to get in shootouts and just took what the defense gave him.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

They wouldn't have made the playoffs and Bill gets fired. Drew didn't fit the offense and would've struggled even more without his favorite WR in Glenn. Drew had already lost a game week 1 against a team that would end in last place where Brady didn't lose to ONE team that was under .500.

Brady himself was pretty rough, but he understood that he wasn't going to be able to get in shootouts and just took what the defense gave him.

Was there some rumor around that Bill would have been fired? I remember BB and RK talking back then about a 5-year plan to get to the super bowl. If you guys heard something different, I'd like to hear it.

 

[Jackson 2]

Was there some rumor around that Bill would have been fired? I remember BB and RK talking back then about a 5-year plan to get to the super bowl. If you guys heard something different, I'd like to hear it.

I don't recall any speculation about Bill's future with the Pats at that time, nor do I ever recall having heard about or read about any since.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Was there some rumor around that Bill would have been fired? I remember BB and RK talking back then about a 5-year plan to get to the super bowl. If you guys heard something different, I'd like to hear it.

Bill was brought in to get the Pats back to the playoffs and being a Super Bowl contender. He stripped the roster in 2000 going 5-11 when he had core players such as Bledsoe, Glenn, McGinest, Law, Milloy, Ted Johnson, Teddy Bruschi and special teams ace Larry Whigham. They really weren't much better going into 2001 and regarded as the least talented team in the NFL. They just signed Drew Bledsoe to a record setting contract. This would've been 3 consecutive years of not making the playoffs.

Your boy Jerod got his ass canned after one season with a bad team. Bill would've been fired had he had another bad season with the core players he had. No rumor needed.

 

[XLIX]

There's no way to know what happens to Belichick after 2001 without the Bledsoe injury because there's no way to know how the Patriots would have performed.

IMHO if they stumbled to 5-11 again (or worse) then Bill probably gets fired. There was certainly enough public pressure to do this the summer of '01 (which has been conveniently forgotten by all involved). If they show improvement going 6-10 or better, he probably gets year 3.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

Sure it is. You are confusing identity with execution.

Their offense runs through Mahomes. He throws the ball and runs it. That's regardless who catches the passes. That is the identity.

If they pivoted and ran it 40 times a game, that is changing the identity...just like what the 2018 Patriots did. Before that Tom threw it 50 times a game and running was an afterthought.

Mahomes scrambles, he doesn’t run. His rushing numbers are rather pedestrian, doubt he was even sniffing the top ten in that category.

If you’d like to say Mahomes, Jones, Reid and whatever’s left of Kelce are their identity that’s fine. But they could have a lot of turnover. There’s a lot of guys on both sides of the ball who probably aren’t long term.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

I'm not a Chiefs fan but I think you are undervaluing the fact that this franchise is pretty well run.

We've seen firsthand over a 20-year period how good coaching and a great QB can make up for a lot of deficiencies in both personnel and talent. It was never the Chiefs plan to have Hopkins and Smith-Shuster be focal points in the passing game for the long or short term. The Rice injury I think put a dent in their plans.

This was not a great season for the Chiefs despite their record, and the Eagles exposed some major deficiencies in the O-line, which I expect the Chiefs will prioritize this offseason. I'm not sure what Rice's timetable to return is (he has some legal issues to work out as well IIRC), but if he comes back healthy and Worthy doesn't have a sophomore slump that's a pretty decent top two targets. If they can fix the line and give Mahomes time, I expect him to at least return to top 7 QB status (which he was nowhere near this season).

I agree Kelce is getting long in the tooth, but he has been faltering the last couple of seasons (including last year when they won the SB). His current production while still good won't be nearly as difficult to replace as it was a few years ago.

As for the defense, despite looking bad in the SB, they still have a very good coach who will maximize guys and put them in position to make plays, much like BB often did for the Pats, often with guys no one else wanted.

Does this all translate to a Chiefs dynasty that will match the Pats? No way in hell. I just don't think anything like that will ever happen again. But I don't think they're as dead in the water as some are saying.

I’m not suggesting the Chiefs are done or even that they won’t be competing for the Super Bowl again next season. I just think the future of their roster on both sides of the ball are in flux. They have a bunch of interchangeable parts on both sides of the ball. Outside of a handful of guys who on the Chiefs are part of the future or who are just filling out the roster?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mahomes scrambles, he doesn’t run. His rushing numbers are rather pedestrian, doubt he was even sniffing the top ten in that category.

If you’d like to say Mahomes, Jones, Reid and whatever’s left of Kelce are their identity that’s fine. But they could have a lot of turnover. There’s a lot of guys on both sides of the ball who probably aren’t long term.

Agree. Mahomes was 12th in yards rushing for QBs. Hes no LJ or Allen but he is a threat which is part of their offensive identity.

They'll be changes on offense. No question. Now....based on the changes their identity MIGHT change.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Bill was brought in to get the Pats back to the playoffs and being a Super Bowl contender. He stripped the roster in 2000 going 5-11 when he had core players such as Bledsoe, Glenn, McGinest, Law, Milloy, Ted Johnson, Teddy Bruschi and special teams ace Larry Whigham. They really weren't much better going into 2001 and regarded as the least talented team in the NFL. They just signed Drew Bledsoe to a record setting contract. This would've been 3 consecutive years of not making the playoffs.

Your boy Jerod got his ass canned after one season with a bad team. Bill would've been fired had he had another bad season with the core players he had. No rumor needed.

So you discount the interview with BB and RK saying they had a 5 year plan to reach the Super Bowl? Jerod isn't my man, just to lazy to change my avatar.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

There's no way to know what happens to Belichick after 2001 without the Bledsoe injury because there's no way to know how the Patriots would have performed.

IMHO if they stumbled to 5-11 again (or worse) then Bill probably gets fired. There was certainly enough public pressure to do this the summer of '01 (which has been conveniently forgotten by all involved). If they show improvement going 6-10 or better, he probably gets year 3.

I distinctly remember an interview back then where they said they had a 5-year plan. Maybe RK would have changed his mind if not for TB but if they kept showing improvement, he would have kept Bill. I don't buy he would have been fired after year 2 unless it was a total disaster.