OT: The Chiefs had "Super Bowl fatigue"

[RobertWeathers]

Even Big Ben was meh for a few years.

Cowher was a very good HC and put together some really talented teams, but he never had an elite passer.

Yea Ben didn't become a ProBowl QB until Tomlin became HC.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

If he wants to catch Brady he needs to start challenging Willem Dafoe for those Ultras. He turns 30 next year and has already played a lot of ball. Brady figured that out and started his inhuman fitness/diet regiment.

His longevity or lack of it will be what determines how "great" he is. Another knee injury will knock some of it off and we know how often those happen in the game. I don't see him coming close to how psychotic brady had to be to do what he did. The man truly is one of a kind where they broke the mold after making him.

 

[signbabybrady]

His longevity or lack of it will be what determines how "great" he is. Another knee injury will knock some of it off and we know how often those happen in the game. I don't see him coming close to how psychotic brady had to be to do what he did. The man truly is one of a kind where they broke the mold after making him.

He doesn't need to go until 45 if he can avoid the lull Brady had. Which would mean he needs to shake off the loss and get right back to the pace he's already put himself on.

On the other side he's 8 years in so even if he drops off the Brady hunt he doesn't need much more longevity for comparison to all others. The only things really left for him to accomplish is one More to pass Montana and then try to get as close to Tom as he can but not doing either won't really determine how "great" he is pretty much 2nd or third all time already and in this case that's pretty freaking crazy.

 

[lancerman]

He doesn't need to go until 45 if he can avoid the lull Brady had. Which would mean he needs to shake off the loss and get right back to the pace he's already put himself on.

On the other side he's 8 years in so even if he drops off the Brady hunt he doesn't need much more longevity for comparison to all others. The only things really left for him to accomplish is one More to pass Montana and then try to get as close to Tom as he can but not doing either won't really determine how "great" he is pretty much 2nd or third all time already and in this case that's pretty freaking crazy.

This is basically the thing. Mahomes might not have the lull Brady had. But he also probably can't endure even a moderate lull.

Mahomes is going to be 30 next year. If he just doesn't win any of the next 5, then he goes into a season the year he turns 35 and you are figuring his legs are going to go sooner rather than later. He has less margin for error. That said, if Mahomes becomes a freak and is constantly upping his game like Brady, that changes the math.

 

[Wozzy]

Fatigue and more importantly injuries happen, it's happened to the Patriots.

The 2007 team IMO suffered from fatigue in the Super Bowl, they burned a lot of fuel to go undefeated and it ran out at the worst time. Their offensive scheme also got a little too soft and pass happy over the regular season. They had very little ground and pound to their arsenal.

The 2024 Chiefs didn't have a lot of significant injuries, they actually seemed to get healthier as the season wore on. Their offense was short a linemen or two. Thuney playing guard in the regular season was reasonable, having to play the best of the best in the playoffs was asking too much. He's a guard.

Ever since they traded Tyreek and let Orlando Brown walk because he was too expensive, they been using bandaids at WR and playing musical chairs at offensive tackle. The postseason ended because the music stopped and they had no tackles. The Patriots had better be playing attention to this, or how great both of Philly's lines were.

 

[NE_Zealot]

He doesn't need to go until 45 if he can avoid the lull Brady had. Which would mean he needs to shake off the loss and get right back to the pace he's already put himself on.

On the other side he's 8 years in so even if he drops off the Brady hunt he doesn't need much more longevity for comparison to all others. The only things really left for him to accomplish is one More to pass Montana and then try to get as close to Tom as he can but not doing either won't really determine how "great" he is pretty much 2nd or third all time already and in this case that's pretty freaking crazy.

I still think he needs 2 more to pass Joe IMHO. Brady didn’t get a pass at 4, plenty still stood in Joe’s corner whether the argument made sense or not. It took 5 to move the needle towards Tom and 6 to really swing it. Getting a seventh on a new team solidified it. To me Pat cannot be the GOAT without proving he can do it somewhere else near the end of his career. Longevity is a big part of it, not just going on a run early in your career.

 

[sb1]

Fatigue and more importantly injuries happen, it's happened to the Patriots.

The 2007 team IMO suffered from fatigue in the Super Bowl, they burned a lot of fuel to go undefeated and it ran out at the worst time. Their offensive scheme also got a little too soft and pass happy over the regular season. They had very little ground and pound to their arsenal.

They also had a major distraction in the week leading up to the game and seemed a little arrogant for their own good.

The 2024 Chiefs didn't have a lot of significant injuries, they actually seemed to get healthier as the season wore on. Their offense was short a linemen or two. Thuney playing guard in the regular season was reasonable, having to play the best of the best in the playoffs was asking too much. He's a guard.

Ever since they traded Tyreek and let Orlando Brown walk because he was too expensive, they been using bandaids at WR and playing musical chairs at offensive tackle. The postseason ended because the music stopped and they had no tackles. The Patriots had better be playing attention to this, or how great both of Philly's lines were.

The takeaway is also that riding that many one score games doesn’t mean you’re a championship team or “finding ways to win”. A lot of times it was the other team beating themselves. That’s not sustainable.

I don’t think the Patriots can learn anything from Philly that they can’t learn watching their own mess the last couple of seasons.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is basically the thing. Mahomes might not have the lull Brady had. But he also probably can't endure even a moderate lull.

Mahomes is going to be 30 next year. If he just doesn't win any of the next 5, then he goes into a season the year he turns 35 and you are figuring his legs are going to go sooner rather than later. He has less margin for error. That said, if Mahomes becomes a freak and is constantly upping his game like Brady, that changes the math.

A damaging, underrated loss was Sammy Morris week 6 vs Dallas.

Weeks 1-5 Pats actually ran more than they passed (35/32) and ave'd 155ypg on the ground.

He and Maroney were a nice combo.

After Morris got hurt they averaged 101 ypg on 25 carries a game the rest of the way while throwing it 37 times per game.

 

[Wozzy]

The takeaway is also that riding that many one score games doesn’t mean you’re a championship team or “finding ways to win”. A lot of times it was the other team beating themselves. That’s not sustainable.

This isn’t necessarily correct, it worked for them last year, it worked when the Giants beat us twice, it worked for those early 2000 dynasty teams.

A team can win with a ground and pound time consuming approach. It failed this season because they didn’t have the horses upfront and turned the ball over. There’s multiple ways to skin a cat.

I don’t think the Patriots can learn anything from Philly that they can’t learn watching their own mess the last couple of seasons.

Considering they took their franchise QB then reached for the 3rd best WR on Washington University and signed a bunch of jags to start on the offensive line… Wolf needs to learn. Hopefully Vrabel has his priorities in order.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

True dynasties never get "Superbowl fatigue."

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

A damaging, underrated loss was Sammy Morris week 6 vs Dallas.

Weeks 1-5 Pats actually ran more than they passed (35/32) and ave'd 155ypg on the ground.

He and Maroney were a nice combo.

After Morris got hurt they averaged 101 ypg on 25 carries a game the rest of the way while throwing it 37 times per game.

This. Losing Morris was my one concern heading into the postseason that year. I still believe to this day that they would have won the SB going away if they had been able to play that style of football from start to finish that year. And when it was time to throw Brady would have been even more deadly on play action.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

So what's the deal with the Chiefs drafting?

2024

Worthy - a move-up in the draft for the Chiefs, who traded up 4 spots for a guy withre fastest combine score in history. I didn't watch them a whole lot, but he doesn't seem to be really worth that trade up.

I personally think Worthy is going to be a nice player for them. He can get separation and beat you in many different ways. Whenever Rice comes back I think Worthy is going to be even better. He was the one player for the Chefs that actually showed up against the Eagles.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This. Losing Morris was my one concern heading into the postseason that year. I still believe to this day that they would have won the SB going away if they had been able to play that style of football from start to finish that year. And when it was time to throw Brady would have been even more deadly on play action.

I was hopeful w/ LoMo running well in the playoffs vs JAX and SD they would continue that in the SB but not the case.

 

[TheRainMaker]

True dynasties never get "Superbowl fatigue."

Pats looked pretty exhausted in 2002 and 2005.

 

[Lavictoire]

It's been so glorious - all the Brady love this past week. Watching the Chiefs get their doors blown off was delicious. Having Brady announcing it was the cherry on top. Even better is Nick Wright's tears.

I love Brady doing the color commentary. I hope we hear him regularly. I like Romo too.I guess QB's have a unique overview of offense and defense for that job. That said bias can ruin the commentary. I think Aikman has a bias.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

Pats looked pretty exhausted in 2002 and 2005.

They may have been. The difference is they made no excuses about it.

 

[1960Pats]

So are the Jets lol

The Jets aren't just fatigued. They're in a coma.

 

[1960Pats]

I’m on the fence on this one. On one hand, anyone can do it if they commit to drafting/acquiring a fleet of big and powerful OL, a QB who can run with power, and they coach it and execute it well. On the other hand, pushing the ball carrier from behind used to be viewed as illegal and then somewhere along the way it just sort of became fine. That second part is what confuses me.

I think that push rule was changed because the refs had a hard time with it as it was. It's hard to distinguish between an OLineman blocking one of the defenders or pushing the runner.

 

[1960Pats]

Eh. The Chiefs dynasty is still one of the best ever. Seven straight AFCCG means something. 3 out of 5 in superbowls too. Packers and Browns were good in a vastly different era. I’d say the best modern dynasties are:

1: Steel Curtain Steelers. 4 of 6 in superbowls. The Patriots are number 1 if you count their entire run.
2: 2010s Patriots.
3: Ongoing Chiefs dynasty.
4: 2000s Patriots. This one easily switches to 2 or 1 if they win 07.
5: 90s Cowboys.

Where are the Packers? They won 5 of 7 and 4 straight in the 60's after 3 of 3 and 2 of 4 in their early days. Their 13 total championships more than doubles any other team.

I don't think the Pats were two mini dynasties. They had the same QB and HC for 20 years with 3 of 4 and 3 of 5 SB runs with 2 AFC titles in between. Their entire run should be considered and it's unmatched in NYFL history. I can't see another team getting to 11 SBs in 20 years.

Dallas won 3 of 4 and KC won 3 of 5. They both also have 2 more SB wins. I like the Dallas run more.

 

[1960Pats]

Uhh, are we forgetting the second Pats run?

It's there.