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OT: The Case for Eliot Wolf to be Elevated to General Manager in Front Office

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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I thought Jennings looked lost. Maybe a full camp would have helped, but I figured he'd be a little more 'game ready' considering the program he came from.

There may be no position in any sport where uncertainty or hesitation hurts more than a linebacker.
Another reason why, unless he's blitzing/rushing the QB, Jennings is useless as an off-the-LOS player...Might as well have a few extra Fatburgers this offseason and become a full-time DE...
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Why we suck so bad at drafting WRs and CBs:

"When McDaniels and Caserio were tasked with scouting New England's opposing receivers and corners, they took it further, creating a formula for size, speed, ball skills, scheme and assignments. Then they developed a ranking system based on the Patriots' personnel and playbook. Impressed, Belichick ditched his manual for scouting receivers and corners, replacing it with what he'd learned."

 

ChrisR2223

Pro Bowl Player
Why we suck so bad at drafting WRs and CBs:

"When McDaniels and Caserio were tasked with scouting New England's opposing receivers and corners, they took it further, creating a formula for size, speed, ball skills, scheme and assignments. Then they developed a ranking system based on the Patriots' personnel and playbook. Impressed, Belichick ditched his manual for scouting receivers and corners, replacing it with what he'd learned."

Dear God
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
We have a talented front office consultant where it seems to make sense to elevate him into at least what Nick Caserio was doing, if there is a concern that he's too young to be outright GM:

1. Eliot Wolf is the son of Ron Wolf, the legendary GM who built the Marcus Allen Raiders and then the Brett Favre Packers. Remember when we got Belichick who grew up around Steve Belichick's teachings? We have a guy who has a lot of lifelong knowledge about being a GM, scouting, and drafting in Wolf. Could be like a Belichick on the GM side.

2. Eliot Wolf joined Jan'20, and our 2020 draft is one of the best since 2012. Onwenu, Dugger, Uche and others, we have multiple guys who could become long term foundational players for the team. When Wolf was in Cleveland the 2 years prior they found major guys like Chubb, Williams, Mayfield, and Ward. Before that he was part of a long-winning Packers organization.

3. We had good drafts from 2009-12 when Reese and O'Brien were here. Then Crappy drafts from 2013-2019 with the John Carroll cabal of McDaniels back, Caserio, Ziegler giving bad opinions to Belichick and having Patriot scout opinions overridden by these bad talent evaluators. And now a good draft in 2020 where in a big coincidence the new add to the front office was Eliot Wolf.

I think the Patriots, assuming they were and are smart, knew Caserio might leave and brought in Wolf as insurance. Well it's time to make a play on this and keep Wolf long-term on the Patriots.



I thought you were going to make the case for why Wolf should be made 2nd in charge? All I see is that his dad was a good GM and he was a part of the franchise this year. By this criteria Belichick’s dog should get the job, he picked everything after Duggar.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
I thought you were going to make the case for why Wolf should be made 2nd in charge? All I see is that his dad was a good GM and he was a part of the franchise this year. By this criteria Belichick’s dog should get the job, he picked everything after Duggar.

Belichick's dog plus Wolf would be better than the sub-IQ John Carroll d3 tag team of McDaniels and Ziegler leading the draft decline the last 7 years.

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Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Belichick's dog plus Wolf would be better than the sub-IQ John Carroll d3 tag team of McDaniels and Ziegler leading the draft decline the last 7 years.

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Still waiting for you to “ make the case!” His dad was Ron Wolf really doesn’t make any kind of case., nor does MACDANIELS SUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKS!
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Still waiting for you to “ make the case!” His dad was Ron Wolf really doesn’t make any kind of case., nor does MACDANIELS SUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKS!

It's weird that you can't even read the first post. He was there when Cleveland had 2 straight years of good drafts, our NE draft this past year was better than the sh-t the prior 6 years, and he was with Green Bay in some good drafts. Compare that to Belichick hearing from McDaniels that NKeal Harry aced his Foxboro workout , the same McDaniels who traded up for Tim Tebow in the first round and also pushed for Laurence Maroney.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
It's weird that you can't even read the first post. He was there when Cleveland had 2 straight years of good drafts, our NE draft this past year was better than the sh-t the prior 6 years, and he was with Green Bay in some good drafts. Compare that to Belichick hearing from McDaniels that NKeal Harry aced his Foxboro workout , the same McDaniels who traded up for Tim Tebow in the first round and also pushed for Laurence Maroney.
“ He was there” doesn’t tell anyone anything, other than the fact that he was there. By that metric Brandon Bolden is as important as Tom Brady to the Patriots success in their second dynasty. You completely dismiss the success of MacDaniels in one of the most important roles on a football team while elevating the “ success” of someone whose role you can’t even define. You claimed you were going to “ make the argument” to elevate Wolf without even being able to articulate what he actually has done. Feel free to make an actual argument for Wolf, so far you haven’t even come close.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
“ He was there” doesn’t tell anyone anything, other than the fact that he was there. By that metric Brandon Bolden is as important as Tom Brady to the Patriots success in their second dynasty. You completely dismiss the success of MacDaniels in one of the most important roles on a football team while elevating the “ success” of someone whose role you can’t even define. You claimed you were going to “ make the argument” to elevate Wolf without even being able to articulate what he actually has done. Feel free to make an actual argument for Wolf, so far you haven’t even come close.

Can you even characterize Ziegler's experience? Gets into the nfl in Denver because he was roomates with McDaniels.

Wolf is miles ahead of Ziegler, he was already doing Caserio's job in Green Bay. And Cleveland's rejuvenated roster was assembled during his 2 years there.

 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Can you even characterize Ziegler's experience? Gets into the nfl in Denver because he was roomates with McDaniels.

Wolf is miles ahead of Ziegler, he was already doing Caserio's job in Green Bay. And Cleveland's rejuvenated roster was assembled during his 2 years there.

I’m tired of your obsession and agenda about MacDaniels, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the argument you claimed you were going to make for Wolf. Let us know if you can ever make a substance based argument for Wolf, “ he was there,” and “ his daddy was” don’t make it.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
I’m tired of your obsession and agenda about MacDaniels, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the argument you claimed you were going to make for Wolf. Let us know if you can ever make a substance based argument for Wolf, “ he was there,” and “ his daddy was” don’t make it.

Awesome so you have zero evidence of anything Ziegler has done. Well I have 7 years of evidence that he sucks in the Patriots front office since the Pats have been one of the worst in draft impact the last 7 years.

.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Awesome so you have zero evidence of anything Ziegler has done. Well I have 7 years of evidence that he sucks in the Patriots front office since the Pats have been one of the worst in draft impact the last 7 years.

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You haven’t offered one bit of evidence to back your position on Wolf, and Josh MacDaniels has one of the best resume’s of any OC in football. And I’m not sure why you expect me to take any position on Ziegler when I have never even mentioned him in any post I have made? Your obsessions are yours, don’t expect expect others to conform to them, or to make arguments about things they have never mentioned. Once again, let us know when you can make a substantive argument regarding Wolf to back up your position, so far you have failed that completely.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
You haven’t offered one bit of evidence to back your position on Wolf, and Josh MacDaniels has one of the best resume’s of any OC in football. And I’m not sure why you expect me to take any position on Ziegler when I have never even mentioned him in any post I have made? Your obsessions are yours, don’t expect expect others to conform to them, or to make arguments about things they have never mentioned. Once again, let us know when you can make a substantive argument regarding Wolf to back up your position, so far you have failed that completely.

I provided links you refuse to read. Here let me dig up more evidence the Patriots have been straight garbage at drafting with Ziegler and McDaniels.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Belichick was an excellent drafter 2009-2012 and 2001-2004. Article below. Belichick was a terrible drafter from 2005-2008 and 2013-now. The bad drafting years might be interesting because they are when McDaniels has been here. 2009-2012 was when McDaniels was not here busy burning a 1st round pick for Tim Tebow and another 1st rounder for Alphonso Smith. Ask anyone in Denver about McDaniels. Somehow Ziegler broke into the nfl because he was McDaniels' college roomate. This war room needs more IQ in the room than two d3 guys from John Carroll.

 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
I provided links you refuse to read. Here let me dig up more evidence the Patriots have been straight garbage at drafting with Ziegler and McDaniels.
Belichick and Caserio bear responsibility for drafting decisions, be that good or bad, period. Trying to parse out others roles without actually knowing what input they gave is ********, period. You hate MacDaniels, everyone knows it, you can continue to pound that drum mercilessly or you can recognize that we already know where you stand on it, and have discussions without continuously hammering the point.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Belichick and Caserio bear responsibility for drafting decisions, be that good or bad, period. Trying to parse out others roles without actually knowing what input they gave is ********, period. You hate MacDaniels, everyone knows it, you can continue to pound that drum mercilessly or you can recognize that we already know where you stand on it, and have discussions without continuously hammering the point.

I've asked you to provide any evidence that Ziegler is actually any good. You can't. Because his results the last 7 years are sh-t. Also here's some more about his college roommate. Pats have the worst war room in the NFL:

 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
I've asked you to provide any evidence that Ziegler is actually any good. You can't. Because his results the last 7 years are sh-t. Also here's some more about his college roommate. Pats have the worst war room in the NFL:

And once again I don’t know why on earth I need to provide any evidence regarding Ziegler when I have never brought him up in any post? That’s your issue, not mine. What you are really trying to do is change the subject because you can’t make the argument you told everyone you were going to make, and at this point it’s clear that the reason is because you have nothing. Let us know if that changes, I seriously doubt it will, instead you will just continue to harangue everyone about your MacDaniels hatred.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
And once again I don’t know why on earth I need to provide any evidence regarding Ziegler when I have never brought him up in any post? That’s your issue, not mine. What you are really trying to do is change the subject because you can’t make the argument you told everyone you were going to make, and at this point it’s clear that the reason is because you have nothing. Let us know if that changes, I seriously doubt it will, instead you will just continue to harangue everyone about your MacDaniels hatred.

I shared the article that calculated AV and Patriot draft performance. Not sure why you're so entrenched in a deep hole denying the Pats have not drafted well from 2013 to now.

.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
I shared the article that calculated AV and Patriot draft performance. Not sure why you're so entrenched in a deep hole denying the Pats have not drafted well from 2013 to now.

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Where did I say that? My only point has been that you posted a thread claiming to “ make the argument for Eliot Wolf,” and then never made any good argument. I don’t care who Belichick chooses as his 2nd in command because I don’t know enough about either to take a position on it, I don’t even know if Belichick is going to fill the position now, and I don’t believe any fans have enough knowledge of their inner workings to make a case for anyone, as you have inadvertently proven to this point. I’m far more interested in seeing what the overall direction is going to be than I am front office positions. Once Belichick starts making serious decisions I’ll have more of an opinion on them, right now everything is up in the air. By May we should have a good sense of where is is going with the franchise, right now it’s impossible to tell.
 

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