OT Parcells Documentary on NFLN

[Garbanza]

I watched most of it last night. Well done. Parcells is a "jersey guy" (his words). Translastion: I'm an a@@hole. Nothing last night disputed that.

 

[NE39]

I think Parcells and the Krafts could have handled things better back then. I've heard both Parcells and Bob Kraft talk about how they might have done things differently back then. The Krafts were new to ownership and had things to learn (they didn't hire Parcells, but inherited him), and Parcells was so full of himself he couldn't understand why he had to explain himself to anyone (even ownership).

However, I will forever be grateful to Parcells for what he did for the Patriots. People forget how dreadful the Patriots were back then.

I had season tickets in the early 90's when Kiam and Jankovich ran the team, and they were a complete joke of a franchise. They were the worst of the worst, and season tickets base was small. The Pats were the 4th team in town then, and few cared.

When Orthwein bought the team he was doing so as a favor to the league (because St. Louis wanted a franchise). The Patriots were a mess, a joke franchise in a bad stadium with little local support.

When Orthwein hired Parcells in changed everything. Back then, Parcells was the guy who won 2 Super Bowls with the Giants and was a great coach. His hiring energized the fanbase and got people interested. I remember the day after he was hired that season ticket sales went through the roof. He took over and changed everything, and suddenly there was a real NFL team to root for. By 1994 the Patriots currently sellout streak started, and they haven't looked back.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Bob Kraft, who a year later stepped in and bought the team to keep it from moving. If Kraft hadn't purchased the stadium and stepped up to keep the team, there would be no more New England Patriots. However, Parcells is the guy who started the turnaround. He was the guy that brought respectability back to a struggling franchise and got them headed in the right direction. Without Parcells, Belichick probably doesn't come to NE in 1996 and establish a relationship with the Krafts which led to them ultimately making the (incredibly brilliant) move to hire Belichick.

So... does Parcells have his flaws? Sure. But I will forever be grateful to him for what he did for the Patriots franchise. I'll never say a bad word about the guy.

 

[Bella*chick]

I think Parcells and the Krafts could have handled things better back then. I've heard both Parcells and Bob Kraft talk about how they might have done things differently back then. The Krafts were new to ownership and had things to learn (they didn't hire Parcells, but inherited him), and Parcells was so full of himself he couldn't understand why he had to explain himself to anyone (even ownership).

However, I will forever be grateful to Parcells for what he did for the Patriots. People forget how dreadful the Patriots were back then.

I had season tickets in the early 90's when Kiam and Jankovich ran the team, and they were a complete joke of a franchise. They were the worst of the worst, and season tickets base was small. The Pats were the 4th team in town then, and few cared.

When Orthwein bought the team he was doing so as a favor to the league (because St. Louis wanted a franchise). The Patriots were a mess, a joke franchise in a bad stadium with little local support.

When Orthwein hired Parcells in changed everything. Back then, Parcells was the guy who won 2 Super Bowls with the Giants and was a great coach. His hiring energized the fanbase and got people interested. I remember the day after he was hired that season ticket sales went through the roof. He took over and changed everything, and suddenly there was a real NFL team to root for. By 1994 the Patriots currently sellout streak started, and they haven't looked back.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Bob Kraft, who a year later stepped in and bought the team to keep it from moving. If Kraft hadn't purchased the stadium and stepped up to keep the team, there would be no more New England Patriots. However, Parcells is the guy who started the turnaround. He was the guy that brought respectability back to a struggling franchise and got them headed in the right direction. Without Parcells, Belichick probably doesn't come to NE in 1996 and establish a relationship with the Krafts which led to them ultimately making the (incredibly brilliant) move to hire Belichick.

So... does Parcells have his flaws? Sure. But I will forever be grateful to him for what he did for the Patriots franchise. I'll never say a bad word about the guy.

I really like what you wrote here.

I remember all of the excitement too. I was SO excited, I went from being just a fan to someone who started following the draft and really getting into the team. I still have old articles I saved from Sports Illustrated back then.

 

[Bella*chick]

I think Parcells and the Krafts could have handled things better back then. I've heard both Parcells and Bob Kraft talk about how they might have done things differently back then. The Krafts were new to ownership and had things to learn (they didn't hire Parcells, but inherited him), and Parcells was so full of himself he couldn't understand why he had to explain himself to anyone (even ownership).

However, I will forever be grateful to Parcells for what he did for the Patriots. People forget how dreadful the Patriots were back then.

I had season tickets in the early 90's when Kiam and Jankovich ran the team, and they were a complete joke of a franchise. They were the worst of the worst, and season tickets base was small. The Pats were the 4th team in town then, and few cared.

When Orthwein bought the team he was doing so as a favor to the league (because St. Louis wanted a franchise). The Patriots were a mess, a joke franchise in a bad stadium with little local support.

When Orthwein hired Parcells in changed everything. Back then, Parcells was the guy who won 2 Super Bowls with the Giants and was a great coach. His hiring energized the fanbase and got people interested. I remember the day after he was hired that season ticket sales went through the roof. He took over and changed everything, and suddenly there was a real NFL team to root for. By 1994 the Patriots currently sellout streak started, and they haven't looked back.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Bob Kraft, who a year later stepped in and bought the team to keep it from moving. If Kraft hadn't purchased the stadium and stepped up to keep the team, there would be no more New England Patriots. However, Parcells is the guy who started the turnaround. He was the guy that brought respectability back to a struggling franchise and got them headed in the right direction. Without Parcells, Belichick probably doesn't come to NE in 1996 and establish a relationship with the Krafts which led to them ultimately making the (incredibly brilliant) move to hire Belichick.

So... does Parcells have his flaws? Sure. But I will forever be grateful to him for what he did for the Patriots franchise. I'll never say a bad word about the guy.

I really like what you wrote here.

I remember all of the excitement too. I was SO excited, I went from being just a fan to someone who started following the draft and really getting into the team. I still have old articles I saved from Sports Illustrated back then.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Right, Parcells left because he knew bad decisions would be made. He can see the future. Thats why he leaves everywhere, right? Give me a break How could Kraft have been hands off when Parcells was threatening to retire every year? They needed some accountability there. I am sure Kraft would noy be hands off if BB told him he might not be back next year.

IMHO I think the evidence points to this; remember he made that comment about buying the groceries and that seemed to be the start of the schism. What other reason is there for him to leave? Wanderlust? Maybe but he was clearly not happy with Kraft meddling with the draft picks (Terry Glenn in particular). It is possible as you say that Kraft started meddling because he knew Parcells was going to leave but I think the reserve is possible; Parcells decided to leave when Kraft started meddling.

As far as predicting the future Parcells was actually quite good at it! Remember when the Patriots let Curtis Martin go to the Jets for first and third round picks? Parcells was asked if he was worried about his division rivals getting those extra picks and Parcells said that management (Kraft Greer and Carrol) would just blow the picks. Everyone was scandalized by this statement but he was right. He must have been really really steamed at Kraft and Greer to say this publicly.

Although not was well know I believe this is the reason Parcells left the Giants. Wellington Mara was a hopeless (an incompetent) meddler but cousin Tim Mara was able keep Well out of Parcells hair. When Tim sold his share to Tisch Parcells saw the writing on the wall and bailed. The details are not clear but I suspect that Tisch had a long Dan Synder-esque "talk" with Parcells when he bought his share explained how he would have the final say in personnel decisions.

The great thing about Kraft and he deserves a lot of credit for is that he was smart enough to change his ways. Unlike Gerry Jones and Al Davis and (until recently?) Dan Synder Kraft realized that it was best to let the pros make the personnel decisions.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

As a Parcells expert I should note that there was one little unpleasant tidbit left out of this excellent biopic. That was jilting Hugh Culverhouse at the alter and declining the Tampa Bay job at the last second. The reasons given were mirky but I think the truth was that he was getting a divorce and did not want to let the ambulance chasers get at a possible head coaching salary.

 

[alamo]

IMHO I think the evidence points to this

I think the actual evidence (and not wishful thinking and pure speculation on your part) shows exactly the opposite.

 

[PatsDeb]

My husband (a transplanted NYer who was a big Giants fan until I converted him to the Pats) bought our season tickets when the Boston Globe ran a big ad with a picture of him shortly after Parcells was hired, which said something like, "Come on, you know you want to, buy some season tickets." We yelled "We want to!" and have never looked back. He definitely was the start of putting the Pats on the map and I am forever grateful to him for that.

I think both he and Kraft have admitted years later (in as many words as their egos will allow) that a clash of big egos led to him leaving town. The days following the Superbowl loss in 1997 sure were a big punch in the gut, though. It felt like we were going to be the same old Patriots after all. Luckily, that never happened! I thought the documentary was a softball, but well done. It was an enjoyable watch.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I think the actual evidence (and not wishful thinking and pure speculation on your part) shows exactly the opposite.

Showed what? Showed that Parcells left for no reason at all? Why did he leave; I am waiting for an alternative explanation.

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: Programming note: Bill Parcells on NFLN

Yup. Reality is he was a better groomer than shopper or strategist or builder... Many of his protogees took away what he did best and learned not to do what he did worst... That and they all benefitted from association with each other over time.

He was one conflicted dude throughout his life and absent the Giants championships that some guy on his defensive coaching staff had a lot to do with than most, he'd just be a character. He bailed on teams twice after accepting positions...and that was before he even started. Then there were the predictable bailouts on NY (once he lost his binky), Dallas and now Miami... And he always seems to leave chaos in his wake (including underperforming talent that often projected as better because he selected and/or motivated it...). His W-L record absent the two years the Giants won it all isn't all that impressive...

BB says he was a big picture guy who wasn't detail oriented. Somehow I think that coexisting with ownership is part of the big picture he never could acknowledge. I think as with his staffers he hated to share credit for success (although he was not nearly as stingy with the blame).

It was basically a puff piece on Parcells. It glossed over a lot and really left me wondering whether I admire him or not. His primary skills above all appear to have been his ability to push players' buttons and surround himself with talented staff. What he said about expressing OTT anger toward others was very interesting, though -- that he used it deliberately as a tool to get what he wanted out of people and that football is unique in that respect. Many coaches would not be able to get away with that approach and some (including BB) don't even try.

I got the sense that Parcells still is pretty arrogant and sold on himself. I enjoyed the relatively neutral nature of BB's comments about him.

 

[GroganCountry]

Parcells w/ Belichick

Giants (1983-1990)
Reg Season : 77-49-1
Post Season: 8-3 w/ 2 Super Bowl Titles

Patriots (1996) *
Reg Season : 11-5
Post Season: 2-1 w/ Conference Title

Jets (1997-1999)
Reg Season : 29-19
Post Season: 1-1


Without Belichick

Patriots (1993-1995)
Reg Season : 21-27
Post Season: 0-1

Cowboys (2003-2006)
Reg Season : 34-30
Post Season: 0-2


So...
With Bill Belichick: 12 Seasons
117-73-1 (.616 win pct)
Post Season: 11-5 with 3 Conference Titles and 2 Super Bowl Titles

Without Bill Belichick: 7 Seasons
55-57 (.491 win pct)
Post Season: 0-3 with 0 Conference Titles and 0 Super Bowls Titles


* In 1996 Belichick was technically the "Assistant Head Coach and Defensive Backs Coach" because Al Groh had previously been named the D Coordinator and Parcells didn't want to demote him when Belichick became available. But Belichick was the de facto Defensive Coordinator and was in charge of the entire defense, Groh even admitted to as much.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Parcells reached his Peter-Principle level of incompetence when he decided that he would take over the offensive play calling for the Giants (I don't remember if he did this for the Patriots but I sort of doubt it). His offense philosophy was from the dinosaur age but he could get away with grinding the ball and repeating plays (one of his trademarks) because he had a iron-clad defense thanks to a certain assistant.

 

[SVN]

I saw that, BB is pretty jokes when he decides to be.
I'm just wondering is it true that BB and BP aren't good anymore because of BB declining the Jets job?

that hatchet has been buried long since

Friends to the end? Parcells, Belichick share secrets - NFL - ESPN

 

[SuperPatsFan]

that hatchet has been buried long since

Friends to the end? Parcells, Belichick share secrets - NFL - ESPN

Does that article make Parcells look like he doesn't know what he's doing and he needs to call Belichick for help?

 

[Water Boy]

Go to the 15:45 mark of America's Game which features the 1986 NY Giants. Phil Simms will explain his relationship with Parcells during that season. Hilarious!

Hulu - America's Game: 1986 New York Giants - Watch the full episode now.

Nice. Thanks for the link.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Go to the 15:45 mark of America's Game which features the 1986 NY Giants. Phil Simms will explain his relationship with Parcells during that season. Hilarious!

Hulu - America's Game: 1986 New York Giants - Watch the full episode now.

Thanks.

@ 17:19 - 17:33

 

[Isaac]

Re: Programming note: Bill Parcells on NFLN

Bill Parcells, who has never won a single playoff game without Bill Belichick on his staff....

It was so great when Romo fumbled that snap--my first thought was that we could still say this (truthfully) about Parcells. He is vastly over-rated as a "great" coach, but he is a great character and that counts. For this reason I'm fine with him for the HOF, but he should never be mentioned among the coaching elite.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Programming note: Bill Parcells on NFLN

Parcells has always had good talent on his staff, but his exits have tarnished his legacy. His best assistant coaching talent never inherited the excellent playing talent he had assembled, because of how he exited. If he had left the Giants right after the SB season Belichick would have been coach there, instead he waited months and Belichick had jumped to Cleveland. Parcells' Patriots exit forced them to go to Carroll rather than Belichick (who Kraft has said he liked back then), and his Jets coaching exit was done in a way that Belichick felt he needed to leave. So each team ended up with inferior coaching after him and that played a big role in the teams taking a step back.

You are forgetting his leaving Dallas in a mess and now Miami..

 

[Wolfpack]

Re: Programming note: Bill Parcells on NFLN

It was so great when Romo fumbled that snap--my first thought was that we could still say this (truthfully) about Parcells. He is vastly over-rated as a "great" coach, but he is a great character and that counts. For this reason I'm fine with him for the HOF, but he should never be mentioned among the coaching elite.

I wouldn't have a problem with him being in the HOF. He's still got 2 rings, which is 2 more than most other fellas. He is a great motivator - I love the story from the 1986 Giants documentary how he called the offensive line "Club 13" after the Giants rushed for only 13 yards in one game that season. He's just not an X's and O's guy, and I think his personnel skills are overrated.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think he had no other choice but to leave. Kraft and Bobby Greer were about to destroy the teams with a series of disastrous drafts and Parcells would have taken the blame. It happens all the time; a good coach gets a job with a lousy personnel system / GM and the coach gets the axe. Parcells was smart enough to get out in time. It is too bad that Kraft could not have been convinced to take a hands-off policy (as he has now for the most part) before Parcells left.

There is one problem. Parcells, even though he was under contract to the Patriots, negotiated a deal with the Jets. And it was patently clear that he did not give his all during the SB against the Packers. From not dressing Sam Gash and Troy Brown to how he changed the defensive calls in the 2nd half.

That is also why the Pats were compensated the way they were. Because it was clear that Parcells had negotiated his deal illegally.