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OT- How good is Peyton Manning all time?


My list wasn't top 10 since 1978
Still, I feel like there would be a spot for them based on your criteria, which is a bit different from mine but regardless. Based on your criteria, 7 rings combined would warrant spots for them.

As for older era QB's, my only issue with QB's pre 60's-70's is that the league had a lot less competition back then. So a team like the Otto Graham led Browns had a 1/12 chance to win a championship, rather than a 1/32. Would Otto Graham have 3 NFL championships in today's NFL? Hard to say.
 
When it comes down to it, history judges NFL quarterbacks on ONE major category.

Is Dan Fouts often mentioned among the league's most legendary quarterbacks?

What is the one thing that's said about Dan Marino every time his name is brought up?

Do people talk a lot about Joe Montana's passer rating or pro bowl selections?

Do you happen to know the statistical prowess or all-pro award count for Bart Starr, Otto Graham, or Roger Staubach?

Everything else is essentially a footnote. It's all about the ring count. Unless you are trolling around comments sections looking for negativity, you'll find a near unanimous consensus that Brady is the greatest QB ever, and this is less than a year removed from his BS suspension.

I agree that rings are usually given a very importance when judging QBs. But it shouldn't be just that : no way Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better quarterbacks than Marino, Tarkenton or Fouts.

But for some reason, when looking at Elway's career for example, he now ranks higher because of the 2 Super Bowl wins at the end of his career than we would have if he had retired after the 1996 season. But the Elway that won those 2 Super Bowls was not as good as the one who lost 3 in the 80s. And nobody will convince me to put Manning higher on my list because he won a 2nd Super Bowl.

Volume stats will help to get mentioned among the greatest, but then again, it's not the definitive argument in evaluating a QB. Nobody has ever said Tarkenton was the greatest of all time, yet he was the career leader in TDs and passing yard for a long time before Marino passed him. And nobody is putting Testaverde into a top-20, even though he is just that when looking at his career stats. Changes in rules over the years has changed the game, and the stats, so this is not a very good compare point when looking over a 100 years of professional football.

I would put Brady as the greatest, because he's won a lot, he's always been above the league average in efficiency metrics and the offense he quarterbacks is constantly at the top of the league (points-wise) every year. But I've never seen Starr play nor Graham, Luckman and Baugh, so for me to say Brady's the best ever might be a bit presumptuous.

We also tend to place higher ratings to players that are still active. Brett Favre was always in discussion among the best ever when he was playing, but now, 7 years after retirement, I don't see him being in the top-5 on most lists. I have this impression that with each passing year, Manning's ranking will get lower and lower as well.
 
Aikman was statistically unimpressive in the regular season, but until his 1997+ decline he was a monster in the playoffs. In 3 Super Bowl runs he had 17 TD to only 4 INT, and every game with a passer rating over 100 except one. He was also the de facto head coach in their 1995 Super Bowl season, because Switzer was a clown.

The 90s Cowboys were very conservative offensively, which deflated his regular numbers to a degree. In games where he had to cut it loose it was really effective. His first Super Bowl win was basically a flawless game. His late career got ugly at times due to the talent & coaching on the team rotting away and his injuries.
 
I agree that rings are usually given a very importance when judging QBs. But it shouldn't be just that : no way Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better quarterbacks than Marino, Tarkenton or Fouts.

More accurately, they are hugely weighted tiebreakers when comparing comparable players. It's funny that you bring up Dilfer and Johnson, who haters compared to Brady during his early career.

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, combined stats, 2000, 2002 postseason (7 games)
8 TDs, 4 INTs, 81.5 QB rating

Peyton Manning, 2006, 2015 postseason (7 games)
5 TDs, 8 INTs, 72.4 QB rating

So ironic.
 
Otto Graham actually won 7 championships, he made it to 10. And 4 of those championships were in the AAFC which was vastly inferior to the NFL. He only has 3 NFL championships. Not trying to knock him, just putting things into perspective.
Fair enough, but should Belichick's assertion that Paul Brown is the greatest coach in football history also be put into perspective by that logic?
 
I'd put Peyton around 6th all time behind Brady, Montana, Starr, Graham, and Elway. Like Marino, most of Mannings seasons fell short in the playoffs when playing more complete football teams with strong defenses. Peyton never had a defense in Indy. That '06 defense that some might argue was "very good" was the 7th worst defense at stopping the run - in all of NFL history!

Ultimately Indy's front office failed him by failing to build a more balanced and multi-dimensional team around him - on both offense and defense. Bill Polian is to blame for this.

"Peyton never had a defense in Indy" is one of those misnomers that needs to die.

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"But Peyton never had a great defense!" • r/Patriots
 
My top 10 list only includes QBs who played in the superbowl era. I go back and forth on it but right now...

#1 Brady
#2 Montana
#3 Staubach
#4 Unitas
- Gap -
#5 Young
#6 Elway
#7 Starr

Generally these are guys I always put over Manning.

After that i go back and forth between Brees, Rodgers and a few others to fill it out.
 
At the Very Least, both Brees AND Rodgers are better than the Fivehead in the above list. I would also be willing to listen to arguments in favor of Warren Moon ahead of the entitled hillbilly.

Rodgers isn't better than Manning.

Manning has more comebacks from down 9+ points in the 2nd half against the Patriots(off the top of my head 2006 AFCCG and 2009) than Rodgers has in his career.
 
Otto Graham actually won 7 championships, he made it to 10. And 4 of those championships were in the AAFC which was vastly inferior to the NFL. He only has 3 NFL championships. Not trying to knock him, just putting things into perspective.

Otto Graham's QBrating dropped by 30pts after switching leagues between the 1949-1950 season.

Talking about Graham's AAFC performance is like talking about Kurt Warner's Arena league performance.
 
Rodgers isn't better than Manning.

Manning has more comebacks from down 9+ points in the 2nd half against the Patriots(off the top of my head 2006 AFCCG and 2009) than Rodgers has in his career.

"Well Rodgers didn't have Belichick as a HC"

Oh sorry wrong argument.
 
Rodgers isn't better than Manning.

Manning has more comebacks from down 9+ points in the 2nd half against the Patriots(off the top of my head 2006 AFCCG and 2009) than Rodgers has in his career.

He played the Patriots a lot less because he's in the NFC so that's not an apples to oranges comparison.

Rodgers general lack of comebacks, period, is a valid criticism though.

Rodgers has been a WAY BETTER postseason QB than Peyton though. He actually played well for most of his Super Bowl run, and had a great game in Super Bowl XLV against the #1 scoring defense in football. He has a better postseason win % and TD-INT ratio than Peyton by miles.

In high-leverage situations Rodgers is no Brady, but he has shown the ability to completely dominate in big games at least sometimes, which Peyton never did. Peyton was a bus driver against the Bears and just sucked against the Panthers.
 
Modern Era

Brady
Montana
Young
Manning
Favre
Marino
Elway
Brees
Rodgers
Aikman
 
Aikman belongs.
Bradshaw gets dissed because at the beginning his team won in spite of him but the last 2 he earned.

Aikman belongs where? I was a young teen when the Cowboys were winning but the biggest name from that cowboys era was Emit Smith.

Its actually really difficult to rank the all time greats. With the exception of Brady who has done it all and every which way. And has won more than any other player in history.

Football is such a team game to the 10th degree, other players directly effect performance.. whether they block or catch for you. Its really difficult to quantify but Brady has the ability to beat you with a sub par O line and a crappy defense and still at least make it to the AFC Championship.
 
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Aikman belongs where? I was a young teen when the Cowboys were winning but the biggest name from that cowboys era was Emit Smith.

Its actually really difficult to rank the all time greats. With the exception of Brady who has done it all and every which way. And has won more than any other player in history.

Football is such a team game to the 10th degree, other players directly effect performance.. whether they block or catch for you. Its really difficult to quantify but Brady has the ability to beat you with a sub par O line and a crappy defense and still at least make it to the AFC Championship.
No it's not that hard you just have to be able to evaluate.
I dont care about "name" I care about winning.
 
Aikman belongs where? I was a young teen when the Cowboys were winning but the biggest name from that cowboys era was Emit Smith.

Its actually really difficult to rank the all time greats. With the exception of Brady who has done it all and every which way. And has won more than any other player in history.

Football is such a team game to the 10th degree, other players directly effect performance.. whether they block or catch for you. Its really difficult to quantify but Brady has the ability to beat you with a sub par O line and a crappy defense and still at least make it to the AFC Championship.

It is tough especially if you're trying to be objective about it.
 
The problem with Rodgers is, with only statistical superiority, he will be pushed down a list very fast after retirement. He may win a SB or two and finish with some ridiculous career QB rating of around 105. Many may proclaim him as a top-3 all-time quarterback when he retires. Then when someone comes along with a 106 rating and 4.5 TD/INT ratio, he will plummet down the list fast.

This happened to Fouts, Marino, Young, and Favre...they were at one time considered the best QBs without regard to team accomplishments. I believe the same will happen to P. Manning. Years from now, Matthew Stafford will likely pass him in longevity stats. Statistical accomplishments do not stand the test of time. Fouts, Marino, and Young also all "revolutionized" the position, or that was the narrative, when they were playing as well.
 
Brady
Montana
Rodgers
Brees
Manning

Young
Unitas
Favre
Marino
Elway
 


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