OT: 30/30 Celtics vs Lakers

[Actual Pats Fan]

It's very difficult for an old fart like me to watch a game now. I find myself yelling "stupid shot" on half of the shots taken. Red was correct. It should be 3 points for getting it to the hoop, not for throwing one up from downtown.

This was back in the 80's and 90's, but my dad used to complain at the TV like he was Red: "...Walking!...Walking!..."

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Yes, and Maxwell pretty much got a free pass from the media....and I can only wonder why....

Max has always been an extremely personable and likeable guy. I've always appreciated him and I consider him to be a great ambassador for the Celtics.

It's like with Don Rickles, as far as I'm concerned, Max can say whatever he wants.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Love the commentary. Magic, Bird, Rambis, Worthy and KAJ.

Such an emphasis on race as a major aspect of the rivalry.

Typical ESPN

Anyone else watching?

Race?

So Russ and Sam and most of our guys were brothers...and Jerry West and most of the Lakers were white.

That whole thing in the 80's, including later with Isiah Thomas was so totally media-created...just like a certain prejudice against a certain local pro football team since 1970...

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If you listened to the podcast interview that Simmons did with Ice Cube 1-2 weeks ago you'd hear that from his POV the emphasis on race was always there but simply not perceived that much (if at all) in Boston. I don't see how you can tell a story of those games without it.

It is kinda funny how the reactions about the documentary diverge based on location. From what I have seen on twitter & co most Boston fans are like "I am just here for the sport" whereas many people from LA like the combination of it all. It is sad how in a way nothing changed.

Yup, and things have arguably got worse; it's just that African-Americans are today largely resigned to the idea that nothing can be done about it.

Racism is the largest most influential industry in this country and the history of what happened out west, specifically in LA, provides understanding of just how deeply institutionalized and ingrained it is.

 

[mosslost]

Whatever happened to that game they used to play in the 80's with a round ball? The game with the hard fouls, banging and razor sharp passing to avoid getting planted? Love the close hanger on Rambis by McHale. No technical foul called. And then James Worthy (who was a beast of a player) takes out Maxwell like Rodney used to take out Marvin Harrison while Max was going in for a jam.

In todays game that would be 'outrageous'. Back then it was called a foul.

Clevelands only chance was to play more physical but the NBA is much too soft compared to those days. LMAO at Bird telling Dr J he should retire.

Don't forget Maxwell going into the crowd after a fan in Philly game 6 , 1981. That sport was so much better back then.

 

[mosslost]

I was a teen during the Bird years, and remember the Cowens/Hondo years a little. However, after watching that special, it did kind of blow me away about the race stuff and how different it is today. I am not referring to Boston as being racist or anything. What I am talking about was all the references about main stream questioning about why the popularity was so "low" for the NBA at the time. There were actual articles about the league being "too black" in mainstream papers. (Like a question "Is the League too black) Impossible to even imagine it in today's sports world.

And all that open referring to Bird as the "Great White Hope". I remember that, but I could not believe watching the special the openness of such race talk.

There was one particular segment that talked about how people did not like how the sport had shifted from "fundamentals" and "team play" (code word for "white" accord to the special) to flashy showboat style ("black play") during the 1970s. And I felt this was a bit rediculous since the Celtics had a lot of African American players in the 60s.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And Holmes and Cooney are now friends. Cooney runs some sort of charity for inner city kids in NJ and Larry Holmes is always there to help him out whenever asked....saw a great documentary about these two guys

I didn't know that. Thats great!

Larry Holmes was a vastly underrated heavyweight champion.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They were great. But the 1981 Eastern Conference Finals were better.

EPIC series.

4th quarter of G7 made Celtics/Pistons look like a yoga class.

Most physical hoop game I'd ever seen.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Race?

So Russ and Sam and most of our guys were brothers...and Jerry West and most of the Lakers were white.

That whole thing in the 80's, including later with Isiah Thomas was so totally media-created...just like a certain prejudice against a certain local pro football team since 1970...

I hate Isiah Thomas. The very definition of an azz hole.

 

[Bill Lee]

Anyone know where I could download this?

The official answer would be to get a DVR and an ESPN cable subscription, no? And having that ESPN subscription gives you a login ( link: 30 for 30: Celtics/Lakers (Part 1) - WatchESPN ). Or perhaps getting the ESPN package for Hulu ( link: 30 for 30 ) would do it?

 

[Tunescribe]

It's very difficult for an old fart like me to watch a game now. I find myself yelling "stupid shot" on half of the shots taken. Red was correct. It should be 3 points for getting it to the hoop, not for throwing one up from downtown.

The game today is so undisciplined, selfish and wimpy. Too many guys pulling up and launching 3-point attempts while in transition instead of running the offense, too many guys going one-on-one while everyone else stands around watching. Too many ticky tack foul calls. Not enough pride in playing defense, not enough emphasis on overall team play.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I was a teen during the Bird years, and remember the Cowens/Hondo years a little. However, after watching that special, it did kind of blow me away about the race stuff and how different it is today. I am not referring to Boston as being racist or anything. What I am talking about was all the references about main stream questioning about why the popularity was so "low" for the NBA at the time. There were actual articles about the league being "too black" in mainstream papers. (Like a question "Is the League too black) Impossible to even imagine it in today's sports world.

And all that open referring to Bird as the "Great White Hope". I remember that, but I could not believe watching the special the openness of such race talk.

There was one particular segment that talked about how people did not like how the sport had shifted from "fundamentals" and "team play" (code word for "white" accord to the special) to flashy showboat style ("black play") during the 1970s. And I felt this was a bit rediculous since the Celtics had a lot of African American players in the 60s.

I was a HUGE NBA fan growing up in the 70's...while the league was mostly black, there were plenty of white stars too - but it was all about the basketball.

The media initiated the premise that poor ratings were due to the racial makeup of the league. I suppose there might have been something to that; then again, I don't think the NHL's poor national ratings had anything to do with race. However, the media could have surmised that American people just hated Canadians.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The game today is so undisciplined, selfish and wimpy. Too many guys pulling up and launching 3-point attempts while in transition instead of running the offense, too many guys going one-on-one while everyone else stands around watching. Too many ticky tack foul calls. Not enough pride in playing defense, not enough emphasis in overall team play.

...which explains the overwhelming success of the '08 Celtics. When that team needed a stop, they usually got it.

The result far outweighed the sum of those parts that Ainge put together during his six-month King Midas spell after the '07 lottery disaster. Not only did they win primarily because of defense, the whole culture in the locker room was unselfish. And the players reveled in being despised by rest of the league.

Ainge didn't get it, so he let James Posey go and that was that.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I hate Isiah Thomas. The very definition of an azz hole.

Yeah, but regarding the incident I'm referring to in '87, Larry had no problem with what was said. It was total media stupidity, period.

 

[zoostation]

...which explains the overwhelming success of the '08 Celtics. When that team needed a stop, they usually got it.

The result far outweighed the sum of those parts that Ainge put together during his six-month King Midas spell after the '07 lottery disaster. Not only did they win primarily because of defense, the whole culture in the locker room was unselfish. And the players reveled in being despised by rest of the league.

Ainge didn't get it, so he let James Posey go and that was that.

I agree with most of what you're saying but not the Posey part. I remember it being partly a numbers game and partly Posey thinking the younger New Orleans team had a better upside than the Celtics. The Celtic offer was solid but he left for an offer that was in the ballpark. Losing him did hurt without a doubt.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I agree with most of what you're saying but not the Posey part. I remember it being partly a numbers game and partly Posey thinking the younger New Orleans team had a better upside than the Celtics. The Celtic offer was solid but he left for an offer that was in the ballpark. Losing him did hurt without a doubt.

It was Posey's chance to get what he could, as a non-superstar veteran, to have some security for his family and be paid what he was worth. The Hornets offer was flatly more money and more years, and anybody seeing him play on the court for the Heat and Celtics understood his value transcended numbers. Anybody, that is, except Ainge.

At home or on the road in '07-'08, the regular card table in the Celts' locker room had four players: Garnett, Pierce, Allen and Posey. James was critical to the team's chemistry and success and rewarding him and not cheapskating him would have sent the message to the team, the fans and the league that the Celtics were serious about repeating.

Ainge didn't, and Ubuntu was over. No more titles.

 

[Pats Fanatic]

They were great. But the 1981 Eastern Conference Finals were better.

I remember listening to game 7 and no one moved during that 4th quarter. For some reason the game wasn't played live on CBS but was replayed at 11:30 that night. The 76ers were amazing team also doing the early 80's also.

 

[Tony2046]

Thanks for the heads up @robertweathers . Watched it.

The racial aspect of the documentary was horribly misleading but the basketball part of it was fantastic.

They mention that Celtic games had "low attendance" because white people in Boston didn't want to watch a black basketball team. This morning WEEI discussed how most NBA teams had low attendance and that the Celtics had higher attendance then most teams.

Anyways watching the documentary led me to believe the race issue was unique to or worse in Boston when it was a nationwide problem.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I remember listening to game 7 and no one moved during that 4th quarter. For some reason the game wasn't played live on CBS but was replayed at 11:30 that night. The 76ers were amazing team also doing the early 80's also.

Previous games in the series were tape-delayed, but Game 7 was live. I saw it in the girls' dorm lobby in college. All the other guys there were black, and rooting for the Sixers.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Thanks for the heads up @robertweathers . Watched it.

The racial aspect of the documentary was horribly misleading but the basketball part of it was fantastic.

They mention that Celtic games had "low attendance" because white people in Boston didn't want to watch a black basketball team. This morning WEEI discussed how most NBA teams had low attendance and that the Celtics had higher attendance then most teams.

Anyways watching the documentary led me to believe the race issue was unique to or worse in Boston when it was a nationwide problem.

The Celts' attendance suffered in '78-'79 primarily because the team was terrible.