Patriots Local News:

SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:ProFootballTalk.com


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:ProFootballTalk.com


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:Boston Sports Journal


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:Providence Journal


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:WEEI

Patsfans.com


Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: Redskins
Thu
Aug 9th
Right Now At PatsFans.com:
Pats Like Leaders
Malcolm Mitchell has been among quite a few players in recent years the Patriots have targeted who were leaders on their respective teams


Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

One more SB thread...some random reflective thoughts

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by kas, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. kas

    kas Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +42
    So I don't post nearly as much as I used to but with what was definitely been a hotly debated loss, I have been thinking about posting something for the past few days. I've swayed back and forth on both sides of the argument and just want to hash everything out - call it therapeutic for me if you will. Anyways, here we go.

    First and foremost, the Butler fiasco. I am going to completely toss out the notion that BB threw this game or benched Butler out of spite. This is a guy who all the haters accused of cheating to fuel his addiction to winning. Now I am supposed to believe that he did this as part of a power struggle to punish Kraft and Brady? I don't claim to know BB at all, but I would say that he would be more inclined to quit on the spot than to intentionally throw a game.

    Next, many have insinuated that this was a replica of the KC gameplan, or that we had never played Chung in the slot before. Fact is, our safeties played more than our corners this year. Very often, Chung was in the slot and not always matched up against the TE. You can argue against the matchup all you want and you can (and probably should crap all over the strategy). But this is not something that they came up with out of the blue. And, in theory, the strategy makes sense - essentially we are substituting out our #3 corner for our best in the box safety (Chung). We did not believe we could win "big on big" in between the hash marks.

    So what happened? There is so much misinformation that I don't know what to believe. Butler was drunk, he was high, he was late, he wasn't there at all, he fought, he didn't fight, he cared too much, he didn't care at all. I'm not sure we will ever truly know. All I know for sure, is that something happened that caused BB to believe that Butler could not help the team. Whether it was him messing up the adjustments all week in practice or simply a change of heart based on watching game film, it was truly a bizarre turn of events that led from him starting to him being a role player to him in 2 weeks time. Should BB have adjusted and threw Butler in there to give the team a spark? It definitely could not have hurt. I'll reserve judgement on that until the details come out (if ever). But I don't buy for a second that the team was shocked to the point of not being able to perform that Butler was not playing (after all, reports were that Rowe was starting in practice all week).

    Richards and Bademosi combined played twenty something snaps, most of which came when Chung was injured. Richards was obviously a fish out of water in coverage, but I honestly don't think Bademosi was that bad - aside from that godawful missed tackle. Oddly enough, he usually a very sound and solid tackler in the open field (perhaps even better than Butler?) so I think that was more lack of execution than anything.

    I have also heard that they should have put Butler on Agholor. The problem with that would have been the Eagles would have tore us up on the ground. So maybe Foles would not have been MVP...it would have gone to Blount or Ajayi instead.

    I think the whole issue with this gameplan was that BB wanted to make sure he stopped the run. He identified it as the Eagles bread and butter (rightfully so, imo). This is what led him to the big nickel look. He could live with Foles gashing us up. What he could not live with was chunk play after chunk play in the run game. The problem, and by big beef, was that even with all this scheming we could not stop the run consistently. Forget the few big runs, those are bound to happen. However, even when we stopped them they were still churning out 3-4 yards a carry. The Eagles were never behind the chains and with 2nd/3rd and manageable all game long (I think there were only 2 or 3 3rd and longs all game), we never put Foles in a position where he had to throw. For one of the few times in his career, BB had no answers. We tried zone and man, blizting and playing coverage. Literally nothing worked.

    The problem with the matchup was the strength of the Eagles (OL, interior receivers) matched up very well with our weaknesses. Throw in a scheme that stresses the defense horizontally, and our lack of speed at LB was certainly exposed. I actually thought our interior DL was okay. But we failed to set the edge all game which led to numerous bigger gains. I guess that's what happens when you have a combination of injuries all in the same area of the field (Hightower, McClellin, Valentine, Rivers) combined with a few busts (Ealy) and underperformers (Branch). I think with a full slate of DL/LB, we probably move Guy to end to help set the edge and funnel to Hightower and Van Noy. Obviously, that would only happen in Madden...

    A little more about the RPO. I played a bit in university, so I understand the concept at a very basic level. The idea is very similar to the read option in that you leave a backside player unblocked (usually the backside LB) and if he overcommits to the stretch blocking to the playside, the QB pulls the ball and throws off his back hip. There are two ways to consistently beat the RPO: penetration and speed from that backside player - 2 key weaknesses in our LB group.

    Evaluating Brady in this game is so weird. The guy threw for 500 yards yet somehow I feel like he left points on the table, got too greedy at certain points in the game, and missed a few throws. There were some huge coverage breakdowns by the Eagles that left receivers wide open. Wow are we spoiled. All that to say, despite what I would oddly call his A- game, there is no doubt the D let him down. However, I still believe the offense let the defense down in the previous 2 superbowl losses so I guess we have come full circle. Just weird...

    Maybe I am being overly forgiving of the defense. Or maybe I'm just realistically assessing that the D got exposed by an offense that got hot at the right time against a starting caliber QB that had the perfect blend of experience without enough film to really break down his weaknesses. Maybe I would be less forgiving if that same offense did not do the exact same thing to the absolute best D in the league two weeks earlier (and also to the Falcons in sub-zero temps where the only things holding them was inefficiency in the redzone and a few too many fumbles).

    As for the BB vs Brady debate, this always creeps up after every non-winning season. The truth is, both are all time greats on their own but neither would be anywhere near as successful if they were apart. Brady has been blessed to spend his whole career in a system (don't forget this is Belichick's offense too) that caters to his strengths and an atmosphere that pushes him to continually get better. BB has benefitted from an unheard of level of stability of top performance at QB.

    Anyways, that's it for now. Thanks for letting me vent. I don't know if we will make it back to the SB (it is never easy), but we will certainly be right back in the thick of things next year and I would definitely not bet against it.
     
    • Like Like x 19
    • Winner Winner x 10
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2

  2. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    Messages:
    11,500
    Likes Received:
    6,102
    Ratings:
    +26,286
    Really nice post. Enjoyed reading that. Thanks
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
  3. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    26,375
    Likes Received:
    4,381
    Ratings:
    +24,356
    All the hindsight ruminating about matchups, scheming and strategy around this game defensively -- the coulda/woulda/shoulda, even including the Butler flap -- amounts to a fart in a hurricane considering how deficient talent-wise the Pats were on that side of the ball. BB and Patricia were able to survive all year using smoke, mirrors, duct tape, baling wire and great coaching complemented by the GOAT leading a superior offense. But vs. a strong opponent with two weeks to prepare, the results shouldn't have been as surprising as they were to many of us (including yours truly).
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 3
    • Useful Useful x 2
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  4. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    Messages:
    11,500
    Likes Received:
    6,102
    Ratings:
    +26,286
    41 points surprised the hell out of me.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    26,375
    Likes Received:
    4,381
    Ratings:
    +24,356
    Sort of like the Chiefs game? Kind of interesting to realize the season was bookended by this defense yielding 42 and 41 points. In fact, it pisses me off.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Pape

    Pape Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +163
    Nice post op

    .....

    onto 2018
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    59,564
    Likes Received:
    7,061
    Ratings:
    +39,286
    Then you're the problem, there. People expecting that level of perfection in a player are expecting something that's never happened in football.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Nehalem

    Nehalem Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,262
    Likes Received:
    323
    Ratings:
    +1,666
    Brady isn't the one that left points on the table. ST cost us 4 easy points. And Cooks deciding to jump over a defender o_O instead of using his speed to pick up 2 yards for the 1st easily cost us another 4. That would have been 41 points right there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. hellolin

    hellolin On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +68
    The definitely got too greedy at the beginning of the game, trying out their trick plays so early and I fear they were underestimating the Eagles, turns out the Eagles offense have massively more superior talent than our injured defense, we would have a shot at that game if we had Hightower and Bulter on the field, but we didn't.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. SammyBlueCat

    SammyBlueCat PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,840
    Likes Received:
    1,521
    Ratings:
    +5,407
    All that kas wrote is persuasive. I may be a minority here but the thing that stings me is the missed tackles. Never mind Butler vs Rowe vs Bademosi the defenders on the field allowed a lot of yardage after contact. Usually people on our team such as Edelman and the Cat do that to our opponents.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  11. wolverinejoe80

    wolverinejoe80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,939
    Likes Received:
    375
    Ratings:
    +1,478


    in a perfect world this game should've been 45-41 shootout of the century type of game. there was no answer for both defenses. we should've scored at least 8 more points (4 ST pts, 7 instead of 3 at least 1 early drive).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. kas

    kas Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +42
    Agree completely. It makes no sense to me how I can feel this way. But I guess it's just a sign of how privileged we are to have TB running the show. I mean, in last year's SB vs Falcons. Brady was dropping dimes into windows the size of a a grapefruit into tight coverage. Maybe it was better scheming, a weaker defense or Tom just moving people with his eyes, but I found the throws way more open.

    Bottom line, Brady has set an unfair bar of excellence for whoever follows him.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. kas

    kas Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +42
    Not saying I disagree, but both trick plays worked as designed. The first had our most elusive/fastest open field receiver one on one in space against their nickel back needing to make 2 yards for the first. Why Cooks decided to go Olympic hurdler rather than just outrun him with leverage to the edge boggles my mind. The second trick play worked too. Brady was open by 15 yards. Amendola just threw a pass like he was throwing to a receiver instead of a 40 year old qb.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. kas

    kas Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +42
    Yup I couldn't be more disappointed not necessarily in the points allowed but in how easy it was for the Eagles to move the ball. I mean look at the snap counts of our pass rushers (Wise, Adam Butler). There were so few times where we even put them in difficult situations. I guess you give credit where it is due but that's a tough one to swallow.
     
  15. Horace's Ivories

    Horace's Ivories PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,607
    Likes Received:
    227
    Ratings:
    +860
    great post - Ive softened alot re: the Butler situation..
     
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    59,564
    Likes Received:
    7,061
    Ratings:
    +39,286
    I look at it this way

    33 points scored

    First half:
    1 drive stopped after an incomplete to Gronk (4 opportunity points lost)
    1 drive stopped after a 3 run series which included the Cooks run (4 opportunity points lost)
    Above drive had missed FG (another 3 opportunity points lost)
    1 drive stopped after stupid trick play to Brady and then incomplete to Gronk (7 opportunity points lost)

    1 drive stopped after incomplete pass to White resulted in FG (4 opportunity points lost)
    1 drive netting only 6 points due to missed XP (1 opportunity point lost)
    1 drive at end of half that ran out of time (not calling them opportunity points for not getting 75 yards in 34 seconds)

    Second half:
    1 drive stopped after strip sack (7 opportunity points lost)
    1 drive at end of half that ran out of time (needed 91 yards in 58 seconds, with no timeouts. No opportunity points lost)

    So, if I were going to point to anyplace where the offense "lost" the game, I'd start by looking at the two drives in bold, and I'd blame the play calling for 11 of those lost 14 points. With that in mind, I find it crazy to expect more out of any QB for a game where those are the lost points in a 500+ yard, 3 TD, 0 INT performance.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    59,564
    Likes Received:
    7,061
    Ratings:
    +39,286

    If Butler plays, the Patriots almost certainly win.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    448
    Ratings:
    +2,449
    Nice post OP, have I missed ken's Idle thoughts or his he still stewing this game over?
     
  19. kas

    kas Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +42
    It's certainly possible. Although Chung did have have 10 solo and 3 assisted tackles. I know a bunch of those were in coverage but Chung definitely helped in limiting the damage in the run game.

    In fact, the first time I thought we were in trouble was a 3rd and 5 or 6 in the redzone late in the first when instead of passing like 90% of the teams do, they ran off tackle to the right with Ajayi for like 10 yards. The fact that they could run such a basic safe play and still convert showed that we were going to have trouble controlling their run game.

    So like I said, maybe they win with Butler, or maybe the Eagles run wild for 250 yards and we're having the same disappointed conversation just with different goats. Can't really argue with your opinion though...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    448
    Ratings:
    +2,449
    I agree and say this as someone who was yelling "PUT BUTLER IN" the whole second half, but can't say we would have won with MB in there, I like our chances with him but can't say for sure, no one can, except Deus I guess.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page

Search For Links: - CLOSE
For searches with multiple players
add commas (Ex: "Brady, Gronkowski")