Okay I'll put it out there: Mankins for Haynesworth

[RayClay]

Speck maintains that Haynesworth was told by Snyder before he signed that he’d basically be allowed to freelance in the defense. That didn’t happen under Blache and it certainly will not happen under Shanahan and Haslett.

That shouldn't be a problem here.:bricks:

 

[DaBruinz]

This team's front office has apparently fallen so far that it can't even handle good guys like Mankins. Haynesworth would burn Gillette to the ground and urinate on the ashes.

What makes you say that Mankins is a "Good Guy"? So far, all we've seen from him is him not understanding that receiving a healthy contract offer is the Pats attempting to get him signed. And, there is a good possibility that the contract offer was sent to him PRIOR to Jahri Evans being signed, but Mankins and his agent sat on it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Switching to a 4-3 would make Ty Warren, and Brandon Spikes obsolete at the minimum, and maybe more. Not worth it, imo.

How would it make Ty Warren, who could switch to DT in the 4-3, obsolete? Not to mention that Warren played a good amount at 4-3 DE last year.

 

[Kontradiction]

Switching to a 4-3 would make Ty Warren, and Brandon Spikes obsolete at the minimum, and maybe more. Not worth it, imo.

Spikes played Mike in the 4-3 in college. Perhaps you missed it?

 

[jmt57]

Spikes played Mike in the 4-3 in college. Perhaps you missed it?

True, but playing a position in college and being able to effectively play the position in the NFL (and specifically in NE) are two different things. Tedy Bruschi was a defensive end at Arizona, but I don't think he would have been a very successful DE with the Pats.

 

[Kontradiction]

True, but playing a position in college and being able to effectively play the position in the NFL (and specifically in NE) are two different things. Tedy Bruschi was a defensive end at Arizona, but I don't think he would have been a very successful DE with the Pats.

I see what you're saying but it's a poor comparison. Bru didn't have the size to play DE in the NFL. Spikes has the size to play Mike in the league.

 

[Deus Irae]

I see what you're saying but it's a poor comparison. Bru didn't have the size to play DE in the NFL. Spikes has the size to play Mike in the league.

But the issue/question isn't about Spikes and his size. It's about his speed, especially in a 4-3.

 

[condon84]

But the issue/question isn't about Spikes and his size. It's about his speed, especially in a 4-3.

Spikes would be backing up Mayo in a 4-3. He may be able to play the strongside OLB. Guyton would have to play weakside OLB to take advantage of his speed.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't see the Pats making the switch to the 4-3 at this point unless they absolutely needed to because they didn't have the personnel (see 2001). Haynesworth wouldn't want to come here unless he was given assurances that he was playing in a 4-3 (he would be redundant with Wilfork in a 3-4).

I don't see this happening.

 

[jmt57]

I see what you're saying but it's a poor comparison. Bru didn't have the size to play DE in the NFL. Spikes has the size to play Mike in the league.

Yeah, that was probably a bad comparison because it was rather extreme. However it does seem that Belichick looks for guys who were defensive ends to play outside linebacker in the Patriots' defense, and guys who were outside linebackers in college that were mobile and played the run well, to play inside linebacker in the Pats defense.

Regardless of where they played in college, most of the players on the Pats defense are better fits and more effective in the 3-4 than the 4-3, in my opinion.

 

[TheComeback]

If Haynesworth simply doesn't want to play in a 3-4, then we should stay away form him. At this point, you have to wonder what the hell his problem is. I wasn't opposed to trading for Haynesworth until now, as I thought he'd be a decent enough teammate to show up for mandatory workouts. Looks like I was wrong in a big way.

Let's stay away from this guy while we still have momentum building in the locker room. The Mankins issue is volatile enough as it is without adding Haynesworth into it.

Never heard of a guy who threw such a fit over a position change after getting paid a $21 million bonus. Either there's more to the situation or Haynesworth is the biggest baby in the NFL.

Also, the Pats have never played a "Base 4-3" defense. I'm not sure where people got that idea, but Belichick has always run a Base 3-4. Just because we're using a certain package more often in a given season doesn't mean it's the new base defense, especially since the Pats reverted almost entirely to the 3-4 during the last half of 2009.

That said, I think Ty Warren could be a very effective 4-3 tackle. He essentially does the same job at 3-4 DE, controlling gaps and stopping the run.

 

[TrueBeliever]

Why would we want a guy who's set to make QB money playing on the D-line and still isn't happy?

What do players always say when they hold out - "This is a business." Yeah, it's a business, and when people don't succeed in a business they get fired and replaced. That's what happened here. So you have to play in a different scheme, adjust.

 

[cstjohn17]

The way I see it Mankins is as good as gone, might as well get some value. We have dealt with ****heads before with success (Moss, Dillion, Ted Washington and to some degree Harrison).

The bottom line is that he can help on Sundays. When he has his head on straight he is the player we always wanted Richard Seymour to be, but better. He is the most disruptive DT in the league and commands instant double teams. His presense immediately helps every other defensive player and becomes someone on the defense that must be game planned for. Currently the opponents don't fear any Patriot or create specific game plans to account for, they can run any play from any set.

As far as him hating the 3-4, he might change his mind to play for BB. His primary spot would be at RDE but he could move inside on passing situations.

I can't think of player in the NFL who is or may be available that could potentially help the Patriots more. His contract is managable, something like $6 per year for the next 3 years. Washington has stupidly paid the bonuses so for the next few seasons the money is not bad.

I think he could single handingly take the defense from above average with potential to very good or excellent.

He could go out and get kicked out of the NFL and not play another NFL game, risk reward. Again, I don't see Mankins being a part of the Patriots future, I would take the risk.

 

[Scouse Patriot]

It's probably been said a million times in the thread but he doesn't want any part of a 34 defence. Still, London Fletchers comments about Haynesworth are less than flattering and paints a picture that is very much the opposite of what Belichick and NE tend to look for.

 

[Sciz]

How would it make Ty Warren, who could switch to DT in the 4-3, obsolete? Not to mention that Warren played a good amount at 4-3 DE last year.

Because we're putting Haynesworth next to Wilfork in the middle of the new 4-3, remember? And he got almost no pressure from any position last year, even in the 4-3. He's an ideal 3-4 end for our scheme, and I see no reason to take him out of that.

Spikes played Mike in the 4-3 in college. Perhaps you missed it?

I love Spikes as a Mike in the 3-4. The thought of him in a 4-3 scares me. Personally, I'd rather have McKenzie (assuming good health), Mayo, and Guyton on the field in that situation rather than Spikes, although I feel Spikes is the best option next to Mayo in the 3-4.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I want no part of Haynesworth at any price. His main complaint, however, is apparently playing nose tackle. In a 3-4 here he would be RDE, not nose tackle, so maybe his complaint is less.

That said, if I'm giving a guy 100 million, then he ought to be willing to sell popcorn if I ask him to. That is not the situation with Haynesworth. PASS

 

[JMarr]

If Haynesworth simply doesn't want to play in a 3-4, then we should stay away form him. At this point, you have to wonder what the hell his problem is. I wasn't opposed to trading for Haynesworth until now, as I thought he'd be a decent enough teammate to show up for mandatory workouts. Looks like I was wrong in a big way.

Let's stay away from this guy while we still have momentum building in the locker room. The Mankins issue is volatile enough as it is without adding Haynesworth into it.

Never heard of a guy who threw such a fit over a position change after getting paid a $21 million bonus. Either there's more to the situation or Haynesworth is the biggest baby in the NFL.

Also, the Pats have never played a "Base 4-3" defense. I'm not sure where people got that idea, but Belichick has always run a Base 3-4. Just because we're using a certain package more often in a given season doesn't mean it's the new base defense, especially since the Pats reverted almost entirely to the 3-4 during the last half of 2009.

That said, I think Ty Warren could be a very effective 4-3 tackle. He essentially does the same job at 3-4 DE, controlling gaps and stopping the run.

With all due respect, the premise of this thread is a joke. Based on what happened with AD and the lockerroom last year, a guy like Haynesworth will never be brought to NE. What's really sad is that Mankins has made himself look like a Haynesworth-esque malcontent now. Even if it comes out that the Pats lowballed and insulted him, I'll be pissed if he ever plays another down for us.

After seeing how Haynesworth burned the Redskins and how guys like Cutler, Revis, and Marshall are increasingly using inane tactics to try to force their teams' hands, very few knuckleheads like Al Davis are going to even consider giving out large bonus-laden contracts now except in exceptional circumstances. So good luck to all the top-tier primadonna players who are making a mockery out of the concept of unionization.

 

[Wolfpack]

Never heard of a guy who threw such a fit over a position change after getting paid a $21 million bonus. Either there's more to the situation or Haynesworth is the biggest baby in the NFL.

Considering the disgusting cheap shot he gave to that completely defenseless Dallas Cowboys player a couple years ago, I vote for the latter. That is one of the cheapest shots I have ever seen.

 

[Kontradiction]

But the issue/question isn't about Spikes and his size. It's about his speed, especially in a 4-3.

That's if Spikes' speed was really that bad or just an after effect of what turned out to be a bad groin injury.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, that was probably a bad comparison because it was rather extreme. However it does seem that Belichick looks for guys who were defensive ends to play outside linebacker in the Patriots' defense, and guys who were outside linebackers in college that were mobile and played the run well, to play inside linebacker in the Pats defense.

Regardless of where they played in college, most of the players on the Pats defense are better fits and more effective in the 3-4 than the 4-3, in my opinion.

Believe me, I agree with you. I'd rather see Spikes lining up next to Mayo in the 3-4 than line up as the Mike in a 4-3.