Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Chargers

[sb1]

Why is it an all or nothing proposition that doesn't evolve? It throws out any concept of change or growth which both QBs could exhibit, but in one case there are thousands of past historical examples in an NFL career to examine and in the other maybe hundreds. It's not an "indictment" it's just the current decision which may change as we move forward whether this year or next.

This is similar to your "BB will be fired" post - let's increase the flame heat (Stidham will be cut before next year) and see what happens.

But it is an indictment. Bill is starting a QB who is leading a one dimensional offense because of his limitations in the passing game over the team's backup. What more is there to say? Seems obvious to me if Stid really had a future with this team he would be starting right now and getting real game experience. Cam is being paid peanuts and moving on if they chose to wouldn't be that hard to do.

I think the Pats will have a bridge QB next year, and pick another guy in the draft. The job was Stid's until had a lousy camp and that probably sealed his fate on this team.

As for firing Bill - yes without a doubt his seat would be red hot if the Pats went 2-14 losing 13 games in a row like many wanted them to do. That's what I was referring to at the time.

 

[upstater1]

It doesn't take much to get all the "Always Cam-ers" up on their soapboxes. Wow, I can't believe how emotionally weak so many Pats fans are. We get a big win, great! But, if anyone sees this game (high score) being anything connected to Cam being worth a big contract, or next years starter, you're crazy. This was all D & ST, and a good start in the run game - which Cam was a part of... but he's just not a good (=consistent) passer anymore. That's just objective fact.

And yet the idea that we can replace him with someone better next year may also simply be unrealistic.

I totally accept the idea that Cam should be remarkably easy t game plan against (uh, dare the Patriots to throw) but a QB that can't read defenses well and who can't run well may be even more limited.

 

[Ring 6]

But it is an indictment. Bill is starting a QB who is leading a one dimensional offense because of his limitations in the passing game over the team's backup. What more is there to say? Seems obvious to me if Stid really had a future with this team he would be starting right now and getting real game experience. Cam is being paid peanuts and moving on if they chose to wouldn't be that hard to do.I think the Pats will have a bridge QB next year, and pick another guy in the draft. The job was Stid's until had a lousy camp and that probably sealed his fate on this team.

As for firing Bill - yes without a doubt his seat would be red hot if the Pats went 2-14 losing 13 games in a row like many wanted them to do. That's what I was referring to at the time.

There is a vast difference between now and future. Pretty much every player who developed had a now when they sucked but still had a future.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Underrated rookie:

Justin Herron 28 snaps clean sheet

205 snaps
2 sacks*
1 hit
2 pressures

*Hoyer responsible for one of them

NFL starting caliber pass blocker. Might be a steal with strength training.

 

[JMC00]

Which is actually a net lose, since now there's only 4 games left in which to catch up, rather than 5 games. The magic numbers of all the teams ahead of NE all got smaller.

Win out and dolphins lose to chiefs, raiders or bills = Patriots playoffs

 

[DarrylS]

On the exercise bike this AM tuned into ESPN and there were the top 10 plays of the weekend.. no Gunnar and no McCourty.. lots of lame other ones that I did not give a crap about.

How could any reliable sportsnews site ignore either of those two plays??

But then again, it was ESPN...

 

[Ring 6]

Win out and dolphins lose to chiefs, raiders or bills = Patriots playoffs

And if they beat the raiders we move ahead of them.

 

[Nunchucks]

HA! No one is suggesting Stid is a rock star, or even worthy of being a starter. The point is, Cam has 285 attempts and 5TDs.
Stid has 26 attempts and 2TDs. We can whine about his INT's all day, but he's had 2 chances - at the end of blowout games.
But, be honest - have you seen Cam work the play (look off the LB and confidently/accurately zip it to open guy in the middle) like Stid did in the TD to Gunner? Watch it again. I just haven't seen Cam do that all year. I'm not saying Cam isn't valuable, or won't be the QB the rest of the year. I'm just saying Stid isn't poop, and could be better as a system passer in this offense. But, I agree, BB values the experience, running and leadership Cam brings, and I don't expect to see Stid unless we lose the next 2/3 games.

What a reasonable position. I dont understand the die hard Stidhim haters.

 

[Conflicted Panthers fan]

Interesting notes from Evan Lazar:
“
Patriots quarterback Cam Newton only threw for 69 yards on 19 attempts, yet the Patriots offense scored 24 points with him under center, and he executed the game-plan well.

Newton didn’t have much of an opportunity to throw downfield, but thanks to the CBS mics, we could hear a lot of the pre-snap communication by the Patriots’ quarterback.

The Pats had Newton calling the direction of running plays based on the defense’s alignment and then often reading the defense after the snap as a part of those run concepts. That’s a lot mentally to put on the QB.

No, it wasn’t a sexy passing game. But Newton managed the game well and was a huge part of a dominating rushing attack, netting 0.37 EPA per rush on his 14 carries with two touchdowns.”


I haven’t been able to watch much of the Pats outside of highlights the last few weeks, and obviously Cam has had some ugly games. I truly wonder if his throwing shoulder is permanently screwed, or if the poor performances are from a combination of still being new to the system and lack of talent at WR/TE.

Anyway Lazar’s evaluation just goes to show there is much much more to football than simply looking at stats and forming a narrative.

 

[sb1]

What a reasonable position. I dont understand the die hard Stidhim haters.

I'm not a Stidham hater. I'm being realistic about him now. He's a 4th round draft pick and like almost all 4th round draft pick QBs he has a likely low ceiling in this league. He has shown nothing in the times we've seen him. He also had the job in camp and wasn't good enough at the time to take it from not only a guy who hadn't played in a year but a journeyman backup.

JG had "it". Seems that Stid doesn't.

Bill has seen a lot more of him and he's keeping him on the bench to back up a guy who can't throw a football anymore. All I'm doing is putting 2 and 2 together. The expectations are way too high for this guy. Pats can do much better than this if they are looking for the heir to Brady and I believe they'll move on at the end of the season and keep searching.

 

[Nunchucks]

I'm not a Stidham hater. I'm being realistic about him now. He's a 4th round draft pick and like almost all 4th round draft pick QBs he has a likely low ceiling in this league. He has shown nothing in the times we've seen him. He also had the job in camp and wasn't good enough at the time to take it from not only a guy who hadn't played in a year but a journeyman backup.

JG had "it". Seems that Stid doesn't.

Bill has seen a lot more of him and he's keeping him on the bench to back up a guy who can't throw a football anymore. All I'm doing is putting 2 and 2 together. The expectations are way too high for this guy. Pats can do much better than this if they are looking for the heir to Brady and I believe they'll move on at the end of the season and keep searching.

I think you put a lot on draft position. I dont know 8f Stidihim can play, but I know him being a 4th round pick has little to do with it.

 

[sb1]

I think you put a lot on draft position. I dont know 8f Stidihim can play, but I know him being a 4th round pick has little to do with it.

It's the expectations that he'll be great - or not even "great" just a viable starting QB in the NFL. Odds are not likely that will happen with a QB that was picked in the 4th round.

 

[Nunchucks]

It's the expectations that he'll be great - or not even "great" just a viable starting QB in the NFL. Odds are not likely that will happen with a QB that was picked in the 4th round.

Kind of like Matt Cassel, Wilson, Prescott, Cousins....heck even Minnshew (sp) would be serviceable. What are the odds that the patriot find 3 starting URFA corners?

Or a starting probowl guard in the 6th?

Stidhim fits the profile, if you looked.

 

[captain stone]

I just watched some highlights and they did mention that JC Jackson may have suffered a stinger ?......also Jones was having treatment for a head/neck injury early in the game but I dont know if this was the injury being mentioned.

Looked like JC had an Achilles' issue with the way he was limping around before he was removed...

 

[luuked]

HA! No one is suggesting Stid is a rock star, or even worthy of being a starter. The point is, Cam has 285 attempts and 5TDs.
Stid has 26 attempts and 2TDs.

Yeah. And. So. What ? You really have not presented any coherent point with that slice of stats.

Are you saying Newton is not producing enough ? Because I'd say that the conversion rate, the TDs he scored on a run (11) and the way his presence manipulates the defense is not captured by your selection of only attempts and TDs.

Are you trying to imply that you think Stidham's performance in those "26 attempts" would scale similarly over a season ? Maybe, but I am not sure a 50% completion percentage and going about 20:30 in TD:INT is in any shape or form favorable to where we are with Newton.

So what your "the point" actually ? Apart from overreacting to the backup getting two series of mop up duty in garbage time.

 

[captain stone]

On the other side their linebacker Murray had a good game , he certainly worked hard for his team.

Yep, and if Bill/Nick didn't throw away their 2nd-rounder on Mo' Snuze then Ken Murray at #23 would've been a pretty good pick for us too.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Interesting notes from Evan Lazar:

"On the return, the Pats set it up by showing numbers in the rush like they’re going to come after the punter, which forces LA’s gunners to motion inside to max protect. Instead, the New England drops off to block for Olszewski, and without gunners running down to cover the kick, the Pats’ Gunner gets a head of steam and finds the crease; chess vs. checkers."

I don't pay attention to ST much, but I was wondering what was going on there.

 

[captain stone]

A little surprised & disappointed that my man Cody Davis didn't see any snaps on defense...

 

[luuked]

Win out and dolphins lose to chiefs, raiders or bills = Patriots playoffs

That is not correct. You will still need two more teams drop a game (most likely Raiders vs. Indy and Ravens vs. Cleveland).

The only scenario where none of that matters is if the Bills/Dolphins both lose next week to the Steelers and KC, we win out and then Miami beats Buffalo in W17 giving us the AFCE.

 

[Uptown]