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Official Pats-Lions postgame show/thread

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That was really bad. It's understandable every once in a while to get destroyed in the trenches...Brady rattled and has an off day, but I mean wth was up with the dropped picks/passes/piss poor tackling etc. Why the hell was McCourty getting beat... wierd night. But all I'm really concerned with is the injuries, hope everyone is alright.
 
The Pats have been rolling all preseason, this was the best thing that could have happened to them. BB has a lot of things to correct now and he will rest some of the starters next week, but when they get to Miami for Week 1, they will be ready to roll. That is the difference between the organizations, the Lions play with Super Bowl effort in August, the Patriots play with Superbowl effort in late January or February when it counts. The Pats will be fine.
 
This is the Pats pass defense we're used to seeing for the past few years. 3-4 or 4-3 it just doesn't matter at this point. It's going to be another long season for the defense.

1 out of 3 games has poor D and the whole season will be like that???

I haven't seen the game, but from what I read I missed a terrible performance!

But this is preseason, this is when BB has a little more time to sort the s**t out!
 
Well this is the main point. Everyone is talking about "whats the big deal the starters weren't in there". But the fact is THEY WERE...alot. and our starting OL (yes I know solder and ohrnberger) were in there a fair amount....and Brady got pancaked and rushed the entire time. BTW Brady had that all too familiar look in his eyes like the AFC playoff game against the jests....and the game in 2007 that shall never be spoken of I think teams know now that if you can get to TB early and often....it will get him off his rhythm and scared. Even when he did have time he did.not play well...hearing too many footsteps and expecting the next hit...not a good thing. Defense esp mccourty played like sh!t tonite. Be it starters,or back ups...they all sucked and have alot of work to do.
I have no idea what Rich Ob (whatever his name is) was doing.

Our Guard depth-:bricks:

Solder, Light Vollmer-Could not handle the Lions D line esp their DE lining up in a 9 tech. Guards got owned when DT's were lining up via 5 tech.
 
the pats Oline got there first real test today vs maybe the best front 4 in the NFL and they failed, but it is pre-season we know the pats are not as bad as they looked tonight and they are not as good as they was the first two pre-season games... bottom line the pats defense will get better when haynesworth is on the field and the pats Oline will look better when they face a D line that dose not have Ndamukong Suh on it

Well yes I think that is true on haynesworth.....IF he can STAY on the field and not get injured every other day and IF the "old" Albert comes back with the fire and intensity for the game and his team. Im not sure at this point that all of that is going to consistently happen.
 
Well this is the main point. Everyone is talking about "whats the big deal the starters weren't in there". But the fact is THEY WERE...alot. and our starting OL (yes I know solder and ohrnberger) were in there a fair amount....and Brady got pancaked and rushed the entire time. BTW Brady had that all too familiar look in his eyes like the AFC playoff game against the jests....and the game in 2007 that shall never be spoken of I think teams know now that if you can get to TB early and often....it will get him off his rhythm and scared. Even when he did have time he did.not play well...hearing too many footsteps and expecting the next hit...not a good thing. Defense esp mccourty played like sh!t tonite. Be it starters,or back ups...they all sucked and have alot of work to do.

man, I was thinking the same thing. When he gets rattled a bit early, he looks that way for the rest of the game. May be he needs to sit down with Callie Thorne from necessary roughness to deal with situations like this
 
The defense got very little pressure on the QB and were consistently gashed on screen plays.

The offense could not protect Brady, and I don't think they adjusted their play calling accordingly. Would have liked to see some 3 TE sets.

Hopefully some of lasts nights outcome can be attributed to a vanilla scheme on both sides of the ball.
 
Brady just touched on something in his presser that might have something to do with what happened last night. He said they were trying to get the ball downfield. (I think the D opening in more of the old base 3-4 was another example of that.) People tend to forget in the heat of battle what this game represented to the coaches, an opportunity to work on things while simultaneously not putting the entire arsenal on display. They certainly didn't envision the Lions coming to play their pre season superbowl, and shame on them for that. That's why Bill took responsibility first and foremost. I recall seeing BOB literally tearing into the OL and WR at one juncture. He obviously was having execution issues. However by then most of us had bigger concerns, like getting the GOAT killed. I think we also had a lot of guys playing on less than the lions share of first team reps this week because some of those went to the returning players who then didn't play... Things that don't tend to happen in the regular season. Couple that with piss poor officiating out of the gate and you have a recipe for an ass whipping.
 
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Really, this game reminded me of the game vs St. Louis last year, Cincinatti in 2004, at Tampa in 2001...among others.

What did all of those games have in common? They were all pre-season games where the opponent came out and took it to the Patriots who seemingly were just going through the motions, and the season went pretty well after them.
 
I would have liked to have seen a little more pressure from our defense. The announcers kept saying we had so many out on defense. But, wasn't this the same line-up which started against Tampa? I am also perplexed. How is it possible not to get a penalty on defense when, the ball is thrown at a receiver (I'm assuming some ref is watching the ball flight) and the receiver can't catch the ball because while he's being hit the ball bounces off the defenders back. Logic dictates that the hit was before the ball got to the receiver. What is perplexing is, how does the ref not see this play?
 
On the comments on the 'vanilla scheme' - this was a pure man-to-man game on both sides, and the Patriots soundly lost.

On the 'blueprint' - well, the good news is that the Patriots look this bad when you can consistently get pressure from the front four. The Patriots have been much better against the blitz, finding the open receiver. Few teams can consistently pressure the passer with just four, and that, hopefully, is solvable.

My review:

QB - Brady was rattled and off. He threw short, he lobbed an interception when he didn't read the safety. Yes, this looked like the performance in the playoffs against the Jets and Giants and so forth. The one TD was on a total defensive breakdown - Welker was uncovered in the middle of the field on a three-TE set play-action, the only receiver out on a route, with zero secondary coverage. 11 defenders bit on the play action; Welker could have run 99 yards. Really nice play action, by the way.

RB - BJGE looked terrible. What was the big difference in the running game? The lack of Ridley. Woodhead was terrific - as much as the Lions could shut down everything else, they could not solve him. He bounced back from the helmet hit in the last game - probably the player of the game for the Pats. If Vereen doesn't play next week, I'll guess IR. This is a complex position - as Belichick is on record, commenting that in the Pat's offense it's not easy for rookies to start. Let's hope Ridley gets back soon. We know what BJGE is - doesn't get caught in the backfield, doesn't break many big plays.

WR - out of synch with Brady. Ochocinco still seems lost. Brady has been trying to get the ball to him, and that's how the INT occurred. Welker and Hernandez look very good. Welker laid a crunching hit on a larger safety after the interception, basically driving his shoulder and trapezius into the returner, stopping him dead. He may not practice this week, but I'd guess no long-term problem. I see nothing from Tate, whether return or receiver. Slater continues to outperform him in both ST and receiver. Slater might be the surprise receiver - he does look fluid with the ball, and shows good hands. Nothing from Branch yet - really, nothing from the outside receivers, it's all Welker and tight ends.

TE - as noted, Hernandez is a great weapon.

OL - in the absence of stunts, the OL was overwhelmed by a big, quick DL. Suh and Williams penetrated consistently, and Avril was unstoppable off the edge. The DT's were through Mankins and Connolly/Ohrnberger quickly, and Avril consistently turned the corner of the LT. Good that Matt Light got a little game action. The Pats do seem thin at G & C. And note that the Lions played without Fairley and Vandenbosch.

DL - as good as they looked against the Bucs, they looked ineffective against the Lions. Anderson could do nothing. He seems to have a repeated move that wasn't working - drive hard for three steps, pause a split second to unbalance the tackle, then drive again. Every play he was ridden out. I really didn't notice Andre Carter - he had one tackle, but I don't think he played much. Why not? Ninkovich started, and did nothing. Very odd that one game ago the front four generated consistent pressure, and one week later could do nothing. Pryor got a lot of play next to Wilfork; clearly he is high on the depth chart. Not bad against the run, but really ineffective rushing the passer.

LB - again, as good as Mayo looked a weak ago, he was less explosive. He had some very good looks in coverage. No big plays like a week ago, but in total a pretty complete game. Guyton got the start but did little.

CB - McCourty was hot and cold. He gave up a couple big plays where he initially had coverage, then lost the ball and his receiver adjusted. And he was giving up plays to Burleson, not just Calvin Johnson. Then in other plays he hit the receiver at the exact moment the ball arrived, jarring loose a reception. I have to say corner of the game was Arrington, who played the middle pretty well, and had a slot blitz sack. He also, as Paul Perillo says, clearly discovered 'nutrition at the Pro level.' The guy is jacked. Butler got a lot of, uh, game experience. Not all bad, but lots of coaching moments. They really missed Bodden, and it would be nice if Dowling could play. Many of us scrunched up our faces with the decision to draft oft-injured Dowling, and he has done nothing to appease those critics.

S - eh. Obviously Sergio Brown is climbing up the depth charts. Sanders played, which was nice. Chung had a couple very good plays in the running game.

ST - Pats received the ball on kick-offs at the 2-5, and struggled getting to the 15. Gostkowski appears to treat the new kick-off setting as a long field goal, more focused on putting it through the uprights than simply a touchback. He has stated that he is not interested in revising his swing, so to speak, to kick it higher and drop it at the five.

Guys who looked better after this game: Woodhead, Ridley (his absence was glaring), Hernandez, Slater, Bodden (again in absence).

Guys who looked worse - BJGE, Tate, Ninkovich, OL, Anderson.
 
The Pats OLine was so bad, I started having Billy Yates flashbacks. The Lions were playing dirty, going at people's legs etc... I just wanted BB to take the starters out to avoid injury. I lost a lot of respect for Shwartzy last night.

I thought Butler looked pretty good and that holding call was bs, and Arrington didn't look bad either. McCourty had a rough night... hope we don't see that during the season. Wasn't thrilled by the overall performance of the safeties, but they weren't horrible either.

Tate's returns were pretty bad, he'll be lucky to make the 53. Brady was certainly off, but he'll have that worked out by regular season. The biggest concern for me is the OL. RG looks to be a problem, and the Pats even had issues at both tackle spots as well. I hope guys get healthy, cuz I think we're going to need a running game this for the O to be as successful as last years.
 
Watching the game right now as I was at a wedding last night. This game was all about the Detroit DL. They are beasts. The pressure was very good. They filled all the holes against the run. Very, Very impressive.

On defense, at least early they abused our LBs on crossing routes. If anyone had questions about our Lbs coverage abilities......Lots of quick passes.

Mccourty didn't have his best game. Vollmer struggled as well.
 
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there's only one word about last nights game as well as every preseason game......

MEANINGLESS

unless you are fighting for a roster spot
 
awful in every aspect. Defense looked like last seasons.

That end around with Welker pissed me off, Brady has to turn completely around...WHEN HIS LINE COULDN'T BLOCK ANYONE. Good way to get him killed OC.
 
On the comments on the 'vanilla scheme' - this was a pure man-to-man game on both sides, and the Patriots soundly lost.

On the 'blueprint' - well, the good news is that the Patriots look this bad when you can consistently get pressure from the front four. The Patriots have been much better against the blitz, finding the open receiver. Few teams can consistently pressure the passer with just four, and that, hopefully, is solvable.

My review:

QB - Brady was rattled and off. He threw short, he lobbed an interception when he didn't read the safety. Yes, this looked like the performance in the playoffs against the Jets and Giants and so forth. The one TD was on a total defensive breakdown - Welker was uncovered in the middle of the field on a three-TE set play-action, the only receiver out on a route, with zero secondary coverage. 11 defenders bit on the play action; Welker could have run 99 yards. Really nice play action, by the way.
Agreed.

RB - BJGE looked terrible. What was the big difference in the running game? The lack of Ridley. Woodhead was terrific - as much as the Lions could shut down everything else, they could not solve him. He bounced back from the helmet hit in the last game - probably the player of the game for the Pats. If Vereen doesn't play next week, I'll guess IR. This is a complex position - as Belichick is on record, commenting that in the Pat's offense it's not easy for rookies to start. Let's hope Ridley gets back soon. We know what BJGE is - doesn't get caught in the backfield, doesn't break many big plays.
The Law Firm is def. not real explosive. On one 1st-qtr run, he was caught from behind,
by a DLman. On the unconverted 3rd/1, however, he had nowhere to go.


WR - out of synch with Brady. Ochocinco still seems lost. Brady has been trying to get the ball to him, and that's how the INT occurred. Welker and Hernandez look very good. Welker laid a crunching hit on a larger safety after the interception, basically driving his shoulder and trapezius into the returner, stopping him dead. He may not practice this week, but I'd guess no long-term problem. I see nothing from Tate, whether return or receiver. Slater continues to outperform him in both ST and receiver. Slater might be the surprise receiver - he does look fluid with the ball, and shows good hands. Nothing from Branch yet - really, nothing from the outside receivers, it's all Welker and tight ends.
Agreed, on all counts. Ocho has been absolute stinko thus far; Branch has been invisible;
Price made a terrible block on the TE screen to Hernandez, then on the same 1st-qtr drive couldn't catch the inexplicably underthrown pass at the 12; and Slater should be ahead of Tate in the fight for the 53
.

TE - as noted, Hernandez is a great weapon.
Agreed; and that OPI call when Gronk gained 15+ yds was complete BS.

OL - in the absence of stunts, the OL was overwhelmed by a big, quick DL. Suh and Williams penetrated consistently, and Avril was unstoppable off the edge. The DT's were through Mankins and Connolly/Ohrnberger quickly, and Avril consistently turned the corner of the LT. Good that Matt Light got a little game action. The Pats do seem thin at G & C. And note that the Lions played without Fairley and Vandenbosch.
Agreed. As an example, on the missed 3rd/1 during the 1st qtr, Connelly had just been taken out, and whoever replaced him completely missed/ignored his block. No push at all for the running game, and no consistently clean pockets for the passing game.

DL - as good as they looked against the Bucs, they looked ineffective against the Lions. Anderson could do nothing. He seems to have a repeated move that wasn't working - drive hard for three steps, pause a split second to unbalance the tackle, then drive again. Every play he was ridden out. I really didn't notice Andre Carter - he had one tackle, but I don't think he played much. Why not? Ninkovich started, and did nothing. Very odd that one game ago the front four generated consistent pressure, and one week later could do nothing. Pryor got a lot of play next to Wilfork; clearly he is high on the depth chart. Not bad against the run, but really ineffective rushing the passer.
Agreed. Anderson do nothing at all to help his cause, and at first viewing nobody else did either, although Landon Cohen did flash v. the 3rd-teamers.

LB - again, as good as Mayo looked a weak ago, he was less explosive. He had some very good looks in coverage. No big plays like a week ago, but in total a pretty complete game. Guyton got the start but did little.
Agreed. Does Mayo have any career INTs yet? Guyton always seemed a step (at least)
behind in coverage, and took a terrible angle on the long screen pass during the Loins' very first drive
.

CB - McCourty was hot and cold. He gave up a couple big plays where he initially had coverage, then lost the ball and his receiver adjusted. And he was giving up plays to Burleson, not just Calvin Johnson. Then in other plays he hit the receiver at the exact moment the ball arrived, jarring loose a reception. I have to say corner of the game was Arrington, who played the middle pretty well, and had a slot blitz sack. He also, as Paul Perillo says, clearly discovered 'nutrition at the Pro level.' The guy is jacked. Butler got a lot of, uh, game experience. Not all bad, but lots of coaching moments. They really missed Bodden, and it would be nice if Dowling could play. Many of us scrunched up our faces with the decision to draft oft-injured Dowling, and he has done nothing to appease those critics.
Agreed, though saying that Arrington was CB of the Game is damning with faint praise.
At first viewing, he allowed a quick slant TD sometime after the 1st qtr (the only qtr I've re-watched so far). Butler's speed/quickness usually can't compensate for his lack of instincts. And I wonder if McCourty hurt himself on the long completion v. Burleson during the Loins' very first drive. He looked very shaky the rest of the game
.

S - eh. Obviously Sergio Brown is climbing up the depth charts. Sanders played, which was nice. Chung had a couple very good plays in the running game.
Agreed. Our Safeties are who we thought they are. Chung looked indecisive in goal-line coverage, too.

ST - Pats received the ball on kick-offs at the 2-5, and struggled getting to the 15. Gostkowski appears to treat the new kick-off setting as a long field goal, more focused on putting it through the uprights than simply a touchback. He has stated that he is not interested in revising his swing, so to speak, to kick it higher and drop it at the five.
Given how spotty our kick coverage is, maybe that's not a bad thing.
And Tate just seems to always run right into tacklers. Barring a couple of injuries,
there is no way Brandon Tate makes this team
.

Guys who looked better after this game: Woodhead, Ridley (his absence was glaring), Hernandez, Slater, Bodden (again in absence).

Guys who looked worse - BJGE, Tate, Ninkovich, OL, Anderson.

Agreed, though Ninko's just a JAG, anyway.

One more thing: Why didn't Bill give his short-yardage offense another go in the 1st qtr
after the Law Firm was stuffed because of a missed blocking assignment by the new RG?
Does Ghost really need to practice 20-yd FGs?

And one more one more thing: The zebras were awful. I hope we never see that crew again.
 
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Or you are a rookie needing reps (Solder).
Or if you got injured (connolly, Welker, Edelman).

there's only one word about last nights game as well as every preseason game......

MEANINGLESS

unless you are fighting for a roster spot
 
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on another note, Suh is turning into an arse......

he says he isn't dirty, but........he's out there to hurt people and wants to be feared.......mmmmmkay
 
Agreed, though Ninko's just a JAG, anyway.

One more thing: Why didn't Bill give his short-yardage offense another go in the 1st qtr
after the Law Firm was stuffed because of a missed blocking assignment by the new RG?
Does Ghost really need to practice 20-yd FGs?

And one more one more thing: The zebras were awful. I hope we never see that crew again.

Niko might be a JAG, but I think he provides versatility. He can play 34 OLB, and play 4-3 SAM.
Basically a poor man's Mike Vrabel. And since he wears Vrabel's old number, I like him
 
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