Offense needs to stop playing fantasy football every week

[ausbacker]

But we don't. We run less than 1/6 of the time from shot gun, with the Faulk draw play that teams now don't even care to stop, they're willing to give up those 4 yards who cares. If a free throw shooter shot 86% you would basically say the ball was going in almost every time, well that is how much of a sure thing opposing teams KNOW that we are passing.

Doesn't bringing in Maroney do the same regarding it being a designated run play? I'm not denying I'd like to see more balance between the run and pass, but you can't have it both ways.

 

[maverick4]

Doesn't bringing in Maroney do the same regarding it being a designated run play?.

If you're referring to how especially earlier in the season teams KNEW Maroney was running when he was in the game, then I'd agree it's a similar thing. It's about being predictable, the defense doesn't have to worry about as many things based on our transparent tendencies.

 

[Tunescribe]

What I mean by this is that Brady/Moss/Welker are elite talents, but that they shouldn't be fantasy football stat monsters like they've been since the receivers have joined the team.

The biggest problem that hinders this team is its over-reliance on its 'stars' to out-execute, week in and week out. Right now this team can't manufacture a win if, for example, Welker gets stopped. This suggests an insistence on doing the same things (which can be stopped by a good D-coordinator), rather than playing a chameleon style offense where even our star players would have (intentionally) mediocre or non-flashy fantasy stats for some weeks. The talent on offense is great, but what we are doing now is trying to win every single time the same way, and if that way doesn't work then we lose.

Nobody is suggesting we don't need Brady, Moss, or Welker. The more elite talent we can get, all the better. What I mean is, this team should be able to win sometimes when Brady throws under 25 times, or Moss/Welker get less than 5 catches. Win the game pounding the ball some weeks, or where the tight ends are used, and where the passing guys aren't putting up crazy passing/receiving fantasy stats. Stop trying to force success through the spread offense, and where you lose the game if you can't do it that one way. Trying to force success doing it one way is Mike Martz'ish.

When Brady, Moss, and Welker drop in value as fantasy football studs (but still remain elite real-life players), that is when you know this team can handle any kind of opponent, and is also keeping a defense on its toes through deception and unpredictability.

You need to learn more about football. Statements like this are simplistic and naive.

 

[maverick4]

Statements like this are simplistic and naive.

What is simplistic and naive, is insisting on using your best chess pieces over and over and over, to the point where the opposition knows it, and you can't succeed if these few pieces are stopped. People forget why the old Pats teams beat 01 Rams or 03-04 Colts offenses.

 

[condon84]

I'll tell you what mav, you've got guts starting such a critical thread about our offense on these boards.

I get what your are saying, keep our offense unpredictable, and not solely rely on our superstars in the same scheme over and over again. But from reading the first 5 pages of responses from others, you'd think that what you posted suggested we get rid of Brady, Welker, or Moss.

SMH at some people's inability to comprehend.

 

[maverick4]

SMH at some people's inability to comprehend.

Well I'm glad that unlike others who can't read, you do understand that I want as much elite talent as possible, I just don't want us to force the ball to them, to the point where we can't win if they play poorly. This offense is way too reliant/stoppable as the explosive 01 Rams offense, the 98 Vikings, the 03-04 Colts, and one other team I won't name because people will take offense.

 

[ausbacker]

I'll tell you what mav, you've got guts starting such a critical thread about our offense on these boards.

I get what your are saying, keep our offense unpredictable, and not solely rely on our superstars in the same scheme over and over again. But from reading the first 5 pages of responses from others, you'd think that what you posted suggested we get rid of Brady, Welker, or Moss.

SMH at some people's inability to comprehend.

Well I'm glad that unlike others who can't read, you do understand that I want as much elite talent as possible, I just don't want us to force the ball to them, to the point where we can't win if they play poorly. This offense is way too reliant/stoppable as the explosive 01 Rams offense, the 98 Vikings, the 03-04 Colts, and one other team I won't name because people will take offense.

We can't read, yet you contradict yourself with your entire argument about stockpiling offensive talent, to better the Patriots yet you wonder why we continually go to Moss and Welker and blame it on the scheme? I must be losing my mind if both you and condon don't see the contradiction and shortcoming in this mentality.

 

[Tunescribe]

What is simplistic and naive, is insisting on using your best chess pieces over and over and over, to the point where the opposition knows it, and you can't succeed if these few pieces are stopped. People forget why the old Pats teams beat 01 Rams or 03-04 Colts offenses.

You just don't understand enough to make the argument you're trying to make stick. You've been thoroughly roasted in your own thread. You look at what's going on with this offense through the eyes of a casual fan and believe the solutions are obvious. I'm suggesting you read up more on how game plans in pro football are constructed and how personnel match-ups dictate strategy from week to week. It's a pretty safe bet that O'Brien knows more than you about applying the abilities of available personnel toward touchdowns. If using the same schemes and strategies from '01 or '03-'04 promised better results, they'd be using them. But guess what? This team's personnel is DIFFERENT. The opponents are DIFFERENT. The match-ups are DIFFERENT. If the Patriots resorted to a power running game supplemented by a ball-control dink-and-dunk passing attack, you'd be blaming O'Brien for not spreading it out and going vertical more often. Now, as the weather worsens and Sammy Morris gets back up to speed (and Fred Taylor returns), I think you might eventually see a little more of the offensive style you're calling for. Just don't interpret that as O'Brien finally coming to his senses.

 

[SyN65]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

Was the offense ever a problem in '07? No. Why? Because of the O-line and better play calling. The problem this year is that the O-line is unhealthy and playing like absolute crap and the play calling has been ridiculously predictable.

The offense does have a problem this year. It's too predictable and we force the ball to Welker and Moss too much. We have no definitive #3 WR. The offense wasn't a problem in 07 because we had a better group of WR's for Brady to spread the ball around to. Stallworth and Gaffney were both pretty good WR's (For a #3 and #4...) for the Patriots.

 

[condon84]

I must be losing my mind if both you and condon don't see the contradiction and shortcoming in this mentality.

I don't know what's been discussed since the 5th page but my comment was basically a response to mav's original post and the first 5 pages of responses.

 

[Rob0729]

Well I'm glad that unlike others who can't read, you do understand that I want as much elite talent as possible, I just don't want us to force the ball to them, to the point where we can't win if they play poorly. This offense is way too reliant/stoppable as the explosive 01 Rams offense, the 98 Vikings, the 03-04 Colts, and one other team I won't name because people will take offense.

You have a point about THIS YEAR'S offense, but that is because we have a rookie signal callers who is learning on the job. But you have been crying this same tune when the Pats had an excellent OC like McDaniels who was genius enough to make Cassell look great and now for the most part doing the same with Kyle Orton in Denver.

I haven't been thrilled with O'Brien's calls this year, but I am giving him time to learn. You have been using the same argument for years though. And previous to this year, you didn't remotely have a leg to stand on.

 

[Rob0729]

But we don't. We run less than 1/6 of the time from shot gun, with the Faulk draw play that teams now don't even care to stop, they're willing to give up those 4 yards who cares. If a free throw shooter shot 86% you would basically say the ball was going in almost every time, well that is how much of a sure thing opposing teams KNOW that we are passing.

We do. The Pats have run 33 draw plays with Faulk out of the shotgun. That is a lot to be running out of the shotgun. We have used the shotgun more this year than even when McDaniels was here, but even shotgun plays aren't predictable since you don't know if he is going to throw a screen or a long bomb.

Also, lining up under center doesn't guarantee that you are going to be less predictable. Our offense was the least predictable in 2003 when the Pats were the most pass happy (the only time we passed over 60% of the time) and the Pats were rarely in the shotgun.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You have a point about THIS YEAR'S offense, but that is because we have a rookie signal callers who is learning on the job. But you have been crying this same tune when the Pats had an excellent OC like McDaniels who was genius enough to make Cassell look great and now for the most part doing the same with Kyle Orton in Denver.

I haven't been thrilled with O'Brien's calls this year, but I am giving him time to learn. You have been using the same argument for years though. And previous to this year, you didn't remotely have a leg to stand on.

Exactly. After being wrong for years, the team is finally guilty of what he's always accused it of doing.

 

[Skeeter712]

It would help to get Fred Taylor back plus Jason edelman is no where to be found and the Tight Ends are nonexistent.

Also I'm not entirely sure why Brady doesn't distribute the ball more like he used to. Now it's mainly Moss/ Welker.

 

[Colts Troll]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

Was the offense ever a problem in '07? No. Why? Because of the O-line and better play calling. The problem this year is that the O-line is unhealthy and playing like absolute crap and the play calling has been ridiculously predictable.

What is hurting us now, more than ever, is the defense. The offense didn't give up 38 points last game and get absolutely slaughter by the long ball. The offense didn't blow a 17 point lead in the 4th Quarter in Indy. The defense did and lousy play-calling on the offense. To try to blame it on "star power" on offense is just ridiculous. Remember, Moss WAS used as a decoy in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs in '07, so you can't say that they just force the ball to Moss, because they don't.

The offense was the problem in the Super Bowl, though, and I believe that game is an example of the point that maverick is trying to make. Shut down either Moss or Welker and the Pats are human. The Pats offensive game plan is too predictable. Utilize your elite players, but do not become soley reliant on them to win the games for you.

 

[Satchboogie3]

What is simplistic and naive, is insisting on using your best chess pieces over and over and over, to the point where the opposition knows it, and you can't succeed if these few pieces are stopped. People forget why the old Pats teams beat 01 Rams or 03-04 Colts offenses.

This is what I don't get. Those teams didn't lose because of their offense, they lost because of their defense. Great defenses can sometimes shutdown great offenses (as in the Colts of 03-04). I find it ridiculous how people seem to think that it's bad to have a high-powered offense. You want a high-powered offense, so long as it doesn't come at the expense of a defense.

I also can't stand how some people single out a few games that they think "prove" that high-powered offenses are the reason teams lose. No, a lack of defense, a lack of execution, a lack of preparation, or simply a bad game are the reasons high-powered offenses sometimes lose.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Re: Pats Will Win Next Ring When It Has No Elite Offensive Fantasy Players

The offense was the problem in the Super Bowl, though, and I believe that game is an example of the point that maverick is trying to make. Shut down either Moss or Welker and the Pats are human. The Pats offensive game plan is too predictable. Utilize your elite players, but do not become soley reliant on them to win the games for you.

Dude, the Giant's didn't shutdown Moss or Welker, they killed our O-line. Moss was open for much of the game, Brady never had the time to get him the ball (or made a bad throw because of the pressure).

Anyways, even with the stinker the O-line had, we STILL almost won that game. Do Pats fans seriously expect 19 blowouts a season? We came within minutes of a 19-0 season BECAUSE of our explosive offense and good defense. Some people forget that the other team is also trying to win the game as well and every now and then, a huge underdog gets lucky and wins.

Show me one team (whether by defense or offense) had more blowouts, a higher point differential, or more wins than that '07 team. Show me one team that came that close to 19-0. Show me one team that had a better chance of winning in a competitive salary cap era NFL. We lost one game by 3 points and it was just unlucky that it was the Superbowl. Some Pats fans act like spoiled teens.

 

[SVN]

What is simplistic and naive, is insisting on using your best chess pieces over and over and over, to the point where the opposition knows it, and you can't succeed if these few pieces are stopped. People forget why the old Pats teams beat 01 Rams or 03-04 Colts offenses.

i thought we played good defense to win those games ..mike martz called the 01 rams offense, are you saying he was predictable and naive and hence lost?You also suggest bb cant pay enough money to high priced coordintors - Isnt martz one of them ? ...so are you saying there exists or should be an offense that no defense can stop at anytime ?

 

[ausbacker]

i thought we played good defense to win those games ..mike martz called the 01 rams offense, are you saying he was predictable and naive and hence lost?You also suggest bb cant pay enough money to high priced coordintors - Isnt martz one of them ? ...so are you saying there exists or should be an offense that no defense can stop at anytime ?

maverick secretly wants the Patriots to morph into the Yankees. Spend lots and lots of money and you'll get a championship eventually.