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NFL vs. Brady Federal Court Hearing (8/19) LIVE UPDATES AND TWEETS

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Just really generally speaking, to become a lawyer, generally you have to graduate from a university, then spend 3 more years in law school, then pass a specialized test for your field. To become a judge takes even more hard work and studying.

To become a sports writer, one only needs to figure out where the caps lock key is and make sure the monitor isn't upside-down most of the time. Facts and sources no longer necessary tools. Actual knowledge is no longer necessary either, we'll just put an "Expert" tag under your name.

The bar is obviously significantly lower to become a sports writer, so I don't think anyone should be surprised at how vast the difference between the two can be when they occasionally cross each others' paths.
OT: Hehe, remember when Joe Haggarty wrote that Bruins article while drunk?
http://deadspin.com/what-the-hell-happened-with-this-bruins-column-1572867533
 
Kessler conceeded the non-cooperation (phone) issue and stated that it could have been handled better.

He did this in terms of NOTICE. In saying that, had Brady been told that he would be suspended for not providing his cell phone, then Brady would have given over his cell phone. That is all he conceeded. He did NOT throw Yee or the Pats lawyer under the bus. The CBA requires that the league give players NOTICE about what the a penalty will be for an action prior to said action occurring. So, the league penalizing Brady for "non-compliance" despite the fact that they never actually asked for his cell phone, is actually in violation of the CBA according to the Notice rule.
 
Again, I am NOT a lawyer (scientist by trade) and I hate even talking about this kind of stuff. Still I keep hearing about the Garvey vs MLB case and I wonder something:
- If every case has some precedent somewhere out there (they must) then why would anyone EVER go to court? There would be no reason. The answer (I think) is that law, like art or movies is more nuanced and subjective than that. Please don't get all google eyed at Supreme Court hearings decisions like they are always right, they usually stink and serve broader political motivations (see wimping out and calling Obamacare a "tax" so they have no legal grounds to deal with it. They never said it was legal, just said they cannot deal with a tax issue, which is correct.)

With that, I actually looked into this case a little using this synopsis:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-1210.ZPC.html

Before I start, I guess this all had to do with verified and proven and admitted collusion in MLB to cap free agency, so like the sports leagues never do bad stuff, No way. The NFL, MLB etc are all above suspicion......

My take aways:
-In the end Garvey had ONE letter from the Padres President saying they wanted to extend his contract. No follow up, no other documentation, no recorded meetings. The initial arbitrator said this was not enough to show commitment to that extension
-The MLB agreed to a settlement where if the player was wronged within a defined "framework" (not listed on site) they would get awards.
-At some point another court says that the letter was a commitment and from what I can parse from the Supreme court ruling, it was maybe a stretch to give that kind of weight to the one letter absent other meetings, etc you get my drift. So they upheld the initial arbitration ruling. They used a bit over the top language that the likes of Felger and others like to trot out.
-To me the key point is this section:
Judicial review of a labor-arbitration decision pursuant to such an agreement is very limited. Courts are not authorized to review the arbitrator’s decision on the merits despite allegations that the decision rests on factual errors or misinterprets the parties’ agreement. Paperworkers v. Misco, Inc.,484 U.S. 29, 36 (1987). We recently reiterated that if an “ ‘arbitrator is even arguably construing or applying the contract and acting within the scope of his authority,’ the fact that ‘a court is convinced he committed serious error does not suffice to overturn his decision.’ ” Eastern Associated Coal Corp. v. Mine Workers, 531 U.S. 57, 62 (2000) (quoting Misco, supra, at 38). It is only when the arbitrator strays from interpretation and application of the agreement and effectively “dispense his own brand of industrial justice” that his decision may be unenforceable. Steelworkers v. Enterprise Wheel & Car Corp., 363 U.S. 593, 597 (1960). When an arbitrator resolves disputes regarding the application of a contract, and no dishonesty is alleged, the arbitrator’s “improvident, even silly, factfinding” does not provide a basis for a reviewing court to refuse to enforce the award. Misco, 484 U.S., at 39.
I don't speak legal lingo but what I take is that the original abitrator's view on the one document was not so out in left field and did not fit the "industrial justice" words from that court.
- The intial abitrator Thomas T Roberts was actually independent and had ruled, and would rule in the future, against the MLB. He was not an MLB plant

In sum, I don't think this is what's called "settled law" in this case at all. Anyone trotting out this lame case has not read it and is not credible. Almost nothing is the same.
 
Gabe Feldman ?@SportsLawGuy 3m3 minutes ago
Nash - there was evidence for RG to conclude that Brady was aware and involved with ball deflation in AFC champ game

Essentially NFL is telling judge that he cant become arbitrator and goodell was.

The only problem is that Nash's statement is an outright lie. The league never provided said evidence.
 
Sorry, I guess pasting from that site causes it to be slashed, you can still read it
 
Interesting ESPN -- John Clayton was on here today. It was an interesting take, but clearly influenced by him talking to Lester Munson. He did say the NFL was harshly questioned by the judge, but the NFL is going to win. He said Brady offered "a couple of games or a game", but the NFL had to say the Wells Report was wrong. Now, the negotiation is down to finding some part of the Wells Report Brady can accept, along with a two game suspension.

What nonsense! After all this, if Brady would accept two games, I think they'd happily take it.

My take is this - Judge Berman knows how he's going to rule. He basically told each side when they were in conference with him after today's hearing. In court, he told the NFL what he was going to do, but needed to get that message to the other owners who might hold up a settlement.

I think Berman knows what the settlement should be -- that's the $50,000 fine and zero games, just like the rumor we heard last night. It's just a matter of getting the NFL to take it.
 
Not a lawyer, but my take. Kessler left the possibility of a fine for "could have cooperated better because the judge is insisting they try in good faith to settle, or compromise.

Kessler is a very good lawyer. This has led to , and will continue to, put the Pats side in the good graces of the court.

Having said that, Goodell isn't going to budge, the Judge will decide and will slam Goodell for not cooperating, lying, not being impartial etc.

Maybe that concession, that won't actually be made, gets the decision.

Like the intentional safety in 2003 where we won.
 
I agree that Schefter was misled here, and perhaps used by the NFL a la Stephen A. Smith. But let's be fair: Schefter is among the most trustworthy of the national media members. He has typically been fair, and his reports are more often than not accurate. Let's not forget that back in January/February when nearly everyone else at ESPN and NFLN were ready to send TB12 to the gallows, Schefter was one of the few who suggested we wait and see until we can learn the truth. He is a good reporter, which is why I think many of us were troubled when we read his report this morning. Hopefully he learned not to trust this "source" again in the future.

Bull ****. He lied because he has to pay his mortgage, same as Mort. "Only following orders."
 
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He doesn't even need two grounds, he just needs one.

True, but the MORE grounds that he has to vacate "the award" the less likely it is to be over-turned on appeal.
 
I'm going to put on my Debbie Downer hat again...

Say Berman rules in favor of Brady and vacates the award.

What stops Roger-as-commissioner from re-imposing the same punishment, another appeal happening (this time making sure to hit all the procedural checkboxes, such as having Pash testify) with either Goodell-as-arbitrator or some hand-picked crony acting as arbitrator, and the arbitrator magically happening to uphold the commissioner's punishment?

The Judge's ruling can prevent it by saying that a truly impartial arbitrator must hear the case. The judge can, in fact, appoint someone to be said arbitrator. As such, all the CBA rules would then have to be followed. Such as discovery. Furthermore, people like Pash, Kensil, Gardi, etc, wouldn't be protected. Neither would Wells' notes..
 
The Judge's ruling can prevent it by saying that a truly impartial arbitrator must hear the case. The judge can, in fact, appoint someone to be said arbitrator. As such, all the CBA rules would then have to be followed. Such as discovery. Furthermore, people like Pash, Kensil, Gardi, etc, wouldn't be protected. Neither would Wells' notes..

Part of the issue in the garvey case was that the court that ruled FOR him said no other arbitration was needed, their award was final. The Supreme court noted this and said further arbitration was the proper remedy.
 
This already happened in Bountygate.
While it happened in Bountygate, everyone is forgetting the fact that Tagliabue vacated the suspensions.

Also, the Burbank panel was NOT a Judicial court, but a panel of appointees that had been agreed upon by the NFL and NFLPA.
 
Lester Munson was on the Dan Lebatard show and sounded like a complete moron...said he's 100% sure there's no way Brady wins this. That all the judge us doing is because the nfl has the much stronger case is trying to urge them to settle. But what really made him sound stupid was saying he read the wells report and Goddells press release and they were both very well written and all he needed to know Brady was guilty. I wanted to scream. ...how can someone honestly read the wells report/Goddells press release and transcript of appeal and think it's well written etc. I just wanted to scream, moron!

lol Lester Munson is a constant source of entertainment. You would get a consistently better answer asking a magic eight ball. I mean, I can pull up his "recent articles" page on ESPN and pretty much guarantee that whatever he has written about most recently, whether that is deflategate or whatever, does not match what all the actual practicing lawyers think. In fact, let me go do that now.

...

Yep, proved correct. Surprisingly, it's NOT about deflategate, but rather, "NLRB decision a total loss for football player-unionization effort", with Lester opining that the ruling "means the effort to unionize college athletics is all but dead." You know, exactly the opposite of what actual lawyers have said was a ruling with limited scope wherein the NLRB completely punted on the question instead of actually ruling out college athletics unionization for good. Why is he insistent that college player unionization efforts are now completely dead, even though every legitimate lawyer who followed the case is insisting that the NLRB made a very narrow decision that does not indicate whether or not players can unionize at other universities (or even non-football athletics programs at Northwestern)? Who knows. But that's the sort of cutting commentary you can expect from ESPN's legal analyst.
 
If this is vacated and the NFL sues, or another arbitration ensues [pardon my ignorance], I think it will be the end of Goodell. Owners are sick of this stuff, it's an embarrassment and will eventually cause them medias and labor and money problems.

Mara is speaking for others too, I bet.
 
If this is vacated and the NFL sues, or another arbitration ensues [pardon my ignorance], I think it will be the end of Goodell. Owners are sick of this stuff, it's an embarrassment and will eventually cause them medias and labor and money problems.

Mara is speaking for others too, I bet.


I think too many owners really DO like the power that Goodell has and want him to keep it. The owners are not our friends here.

That said, I can see them pressuring Goodell to run and live to fight another day. These court hearings are giving the NFL* a huge black eye.
 
Part of the issue in the garvey case was that the court that ruled FOR him said no other arbitration was needed, their award was final. The Supreme court noted this and said further arbitration was the proper remedy.

The Garvey case has no bearing here so I don't understand why you keep referring to it. It was already pointed out that the situations are entirely different..
 
The Garvey case has no bearing here so I don't understand why you keep referring to it. It was already pointed out that the situations are entirely different..
Because all the talking heads keeps saying that case is final law. I was trying ,with my long post that nobody read, to point out WHY it was not applicable.
 
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