NFL tells teams to expect replacement refs Week 1

[BrickPat]

From Gresch:

Players were openly laughing at officials flipping through the rule book during commercials.

Yeah but that's no big deal according to some. Rules-shmules...the only thing that matters is that they look just like the other guys with the same striped shirts.

 

[Deus Irae]

Curran: Leftover thoughts on NFL officials

The last bullet point is something that should definitely concern Patriots fans.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Curran: Leftover thoughts on NFL officials

The last bullet point is something that should definitely concern Patriots fans.

Bill will just have to maintain discipline. That's the rule in this top to bottom outfit. And like Curran said, been there done that and we're all still standing.

 

[BSR]

From Gresch:

Players were openly laughing at officials flipping through the rule book during commercials.

I wish the regular refs occasionally flipped through rule books during the commercials.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Curran: Leftover thoughts on NFL officials

The last bullet point is something that should definitely concern Patriots fans.

I didn't think about this. Good article and good points as well.

 

[fester]

I wish the regular refs occasionally flipped through rule books during the commercials.

Speaking as a referee (different sport though), that is the easiest way to destroy credibility of a referee. I've looked at a rule book to go over an odd situation before, but I've done that at the gas station/coffee shop AFTER the game. If the players/coaches don't think you know the rules, they'll play that way as they think they can get away with what you as a referee don't know what you are seeing.

Going back upthread a bit, referees, good ones at least, are expected to know all of the rules, know all of the intrepretations/caveats/examples/gray areas of the rules, and visualize how the players physically interact in real time, so that the flag/whistle hand is moving before conscious thought has really kicked in. I know as a soccer referee, I've had a whistle and a red card out of my pocket before the fouled player has hit the ground after a nasty straight leg, studs up challenge.

A referee needs to get it right, but to have credibility and game control, a referee needs to get it right, get it right fast and get it right with confidence... and if you are going to get it wrong, get it wrong fast and confidently.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think Pete Prisco, who can be an ass but doesn't pull his punches, had the quote of the lockout. Put the regular season refs on the field with these crews and no one would notice any difference. The media has worked this up into a frenzy of criticism. They will do that to drive a compelling story line. And it remains chic to oppose the billionaire owners. Few fans were happy with the regulars. Ed Hoculi who is suddenly revered again in NFL reffing circles, had become a goat for his gaffs. Increasingly officials were impacting games with phantom calls and swallowed whistles and inconsistent inforcement to the point many of the current critics of their replacements were convinced the fix was in.

Same guys who won the CBA negotiation will eventually prevail here. The only difference is in the interim fans who criticize the officiating will find they have some strange allies who will evaporate once the expensive guys who also sucked return and revert to telling those fans and coaches who disagree with them they just don't understand the rules and are whining because their team lost.

Admitedly replacement refs bottom quartile are terrible. However Mo is on point here. The smug 'regular' refs have been inconsistent on PI and holding and create too many phantom calls. Suddenly they're the saviors?

 

[Deus Irae]

Admitedly replacement refs bottom quartile are terrible. However Mo is on point here. The smug 'regular' refs have been inconsistent on PI and holding and create too many phantom calls. Suddenly they're the saviors?

A "5" surrounded by a bunch of "2"'s looks awfully good in comparison.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Speaking as a referee (different sport though), that is the easiest way to destroy credibility of a referee. I've looked at a rule book to go over an odd situation before, but I've done that at the gas station/coffee shop AFTER the game. If the players/coaches don't think you know the rules, they'll play that way as they think they can get away with what you as a referee don't know what you are seeing.

Going back upthread a bit, referees, good ones at least, are expected to know all of the rules, know all of the intrepretations/caveats/examples/gray areas of the rules, and visualize how the players physically interact in real time, so that the flag/whistle hand is moving before conscious thought has really kicked in. I know as a soccer referee, I've had a whistle and a red card out of my pocket before the fouled player has hit the ground after a nasty straight leg, studs up challenge.

A referee needs to get it right, but to have credibility and game control, a referee needs to get it right, get it right fast and get it right with confidence... and if you are going to get it wrong, get it wrong fast and confidently.

I certainly respect you bringing your experiences as a ref to the table, but soccer is about the last sport I want the NFL taking cues from as far as reffing.

A certain amount of anticipation is needed, but there's definitely a point where it can be taken too far and result in refs reffing what happened in their mind rather than what happened on the field. Anticipation should be used to watch the right place/things and be ready to react, not to start reacting before anything has actually happened.

I understand that to the ref their credibility is very important and seeming to be decisive is a huge factor in that. To me as a fan I could give a rat's ass about your credibility I just want the right call made.

If the refs were indeed looking through the rule book that's pretty sad, but because they didn't actually know the rules... I'd much rather they admit it and try to get it right than just definitively call the game based on what they think the rule is. I do find it shocking that the league was unable to find refs with a firm understanding of the rules or couldn't at least get them properly trained before the preseason started.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

'Cause it's not like that has ever happened before once or twice or more often per season if not per game... I think these guys by and large at least want to get it right. Not always certain that's the case with the regulars. The league is prepared to help them, particularly under the hood. They may equip the ref with an ear piece to facilitate that assistance. The replay officials are members of then NFLRA but subject to a different CBA. They are the regulars. Although if it were up to the other regulars there wouldn't be any replay officials to this day.

Not Better, Just Regular | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS

MLRocks I can see your point. These Refs & Umps are like bein under a microscope and i'm sure their going to do their best and if it means games being longer or conversing of a flag i don't have a problem as long as they get it right. There is too much at stake to decide a game with a crucial blown call especially ones that are NOT reviewable.

 

[Joker]

I've seen NFL refs make terrible judgement calls my entire life ..that has NOTHING to do with this...THIS is about putting "officials" whose highest level of competition is division two and division three college football on an NFL field with NFL athletes. We need the NFL refs back and back soon or the whole season is one big clusterfack of a joke of a tragedy. Just stop the ridiculous "but NFL refs make mistakes and YOU all complain!!!"...not like this they don't...this is well below NCAA Division One standards and everyone knows it.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

should be fun to see these jokes out there week 1

 

[Joker]

more like a tragi-comedy I'd say...we'll see...I just hope nothing happens to impact the Patriots in a negative way...but from what I've seen this preseason, and I've seen extensive clips from games in week one through week four PLUS the NFL channel games, the bias is definitely toward the home team ..it is STARK...how many PI calls on DB's have you seen this preseason where the DB chucks the WR WITHIN five yards? Twenty? Fifty? I mean, every game there's at one of these calls...they are flat out WRONG...the ref does not KNOW the rule obviously.

 

[fester]

A certain amount of anticipation is needed, but there's definitely a point where it can be taken too far and result in refs reffing what happened in their mind rather than what happened on the field. Anticipation should be used to watch the right place/things and be ready to react, not to start reacting before anything has actually happened.

I understand that to the ref their credibility is very important and seeming to be decisive is a huge factor in that. To me as a fan I could give a rat's ass about your credibility I just want the right call made.

Agreed, anticipation is only valuable in that it produces the correct call that is aligned with what happened.

I have a question for you --- what call do you as a fan believe is more credible --- the PI where the flag is entering the frame within a second of the contact because the ref read the CB was out of phase with the WR and his options were a catch and run for TD or a chance on a 40 yard PI call OR the same play where the flag comes in six seconds late. In both cases, the flag was not thrown until after the contact was made.

Same situation, same foul called but what is more credible?

And that credibility matters for both game control as players want three things from their refs in any sport excluding WWE Wrestling

1) Consistency
2) Justice
3) Their Knees

I'm not speaking just about soccer, or basketball, or football or baseball or hockey --- I'm talking about what high end players in basically any sport want from their refs.

If a ref is credible in making a call and establishing what is and what is not a foul today --- ie what exactly is holding today, how much can a DB work up a WR etc, players are happy with #1. If the ref is consistent and the players believe that the ref is seeing the same game that they are playing, they won't take matters into their own hands (too often at least), when they don't get a call that they think they deserve if the call is a 50/50 or marginal (a 5.1 yard DB chuck or a "minor" Offensive Holding....) And if the players believe the refs are seeing the same game, they know they'll clean up the cheap **** that threatens unneccessary injuries so Justice and Their Knees are addressed.

Referee credibility is how the players buy-into the fact that the ref is seeing the same game that they are playing. And if the players don't think the ref is credible, the game gets ugly fast as players begin to take the concept of Justice into tit for tat retaliation that can lead into either the equivilent of a personal foul panolopy, multiple fighting majors, multiple technical fouls, multiple cautions for dumb fouls etc. And once that happens, dumb bone breaking plays/ACL tear causers occur.

 

[fester]

I've seen NFL refs make terrible judgement calls my entire life ..that has NOTHING to do with this...THIS is about putting "officials" whose highest level of competition is division two and division three college football on an NFL field with NFL athletes. We need the NFL refs back and back soon or the whole season is one big clusterfack of a joke of a tragedy. Just stop the ridiculous "but NFL refs make mistakes and YOU all complain!!!"...not like this they don't...this is well below NCAA Division One standards and everyone knows it.

The question is what type of mistakes do the regular NFL refs make --- are they making errors of rule [ie allowing 14 men on the field] where the violations are screaming violations of black-letter rule OR are they errors of intrepration -- ie the umpire is looking at the OG and decides that while the arm was outside of the frame of the DT he is blocking, it did not rise to the level of "holding" per the rule in his judgement and per the level of "holding" in that game?

Vast majority of the time, the errors or perceived errors are those of intrepration.

Right now we are seeing the replacement refs make basic errors of rule --- a touchback when the ball was received at the 10, the automatic tacking on of a penalty on a PAT to the kick-off instead of allowing the Patriots the option of taking half the distance in order to run a 2-point conversion play etc.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Agreed, anticipation is only valuable in that it produces the correct call that is aligned with what happened.

I have a question for you --- what call do you as a fan believe is more credible --- the PI where the flag is entering the frame within a second of the contact because the ref read the CB was out of phase with the WR and his options were a catch and run for TD or a chance on a 40 yard PI call OR the same play where the flag comes in six seconds late. In both cases, the flag was not thrown until after the contact was made.

Same situation, same foul called but what is more credible?

And that credibility matters for both game control as players want three things from their refs in any sport excluding WWE Wrestling

1) Consistency
2) Justice
3) Their Knees

I'm not speaking just about soccer, or basketball, or football or baseball or hockey --- I'm talking about what high end players in basically any sport want from their refs.

If a ref is credible in making a call and establishing what is and what is not a foul today --- ie what exactly is holding today, how much can a DB work up a WR etc, players are happy with #1. If the ref is consistent and the players believe that the ref is seeing the same game that they are playing, they won't take matters into their own hands (too often at least), when they don't get a call that they think they deserve if the call is a 50/50 or marginal (a 5.1 yard DB chuck or a "minor" Offensive Holding....) And if the players believe the refs are seeing the same game, they know they'll clean up the cheap **** that threatens unneccessary injuries so Justice and Their Knees are addressed.

Referee credibility is how the players buy-into the fact that the ref is seeing the same game that they are playing. And if the players don't think the ref is credible, the game gets ugly fast as players begin to take the concept of Justice into tit for tat retaliation that can lead into either the equivilent of a personal foul panolopy, multiple fighting majors, multiple technical fouls, multiple cautions for dumb fouls etc. And once that happens, dumb bone breaking plays/ACL tear causers occur.

If the right call was made they have equal credibility to me. I agree that the general public will gnash their teeth far more over the late call, but trying to appease the unwashed masses shouldn't be the concern of a good ref. I don't think that the players particularly care or notice when a flag comes in, within reason, and your 6s would def be pushing that. There's no reason a ref should feel the need to anticipate what's going to happen to the point of trying to get the flag out right as the infraction is happening; if they get it out with in a second or two no one that matters will view it with any less credibility.

I'll also say that the calls that are clearly too quick (before, right as, or within a few 1/10s of a second) for the ref to actually be reacting to what happened lose credibility to me as it's clear that even if correct the ref was making the call either way and just happened to luck out. That's the type of call I feel I see way too much in the NFL, and the ones that are often result in phantom penalties. Phantom calls have always been a pet peeve of mine, and I haven't noticed any/much of them from the replacements, so there's a good chance my view is a bit skewed on this topic.

Otherwise I think we're in agreement: get the call as close to right as possible, be consistent in what you call, and do it as quickly as possible. Sounds so easy, but it's beyond difficult.

 

[Kontradiction]

The issue here isn't that the regular refs make mistakes. They're human and, as humans, they are prone to make mistakes from time to time. The issue here is that the replacements have made A LOT more in such little time which refereeing the preseason. From what I've seen, if we go through the regular season with them, it will be nothing short of a disaster.

 

[Brady_12]

This makes no sense to me. It seems to me that there's a very good chance that these jokers will be responsible for the "wrong" team winning a game in multiple instances. I just hope it doesn't affect the Pats, directly or indirectly.

 

[fester]

If the right call was made they have equal credibility to me. I agree that the general public will gnash their teeth far more over the late call, but trying to appease the unwashed masses shouldn't be the concern of a good ref. I don't think that the players particularly care or notice when a flag comes in, within reason, and your 6s would def be pushing that. There's no reason a ref should feel the need to anticipate what's going to happen to the point of trying to get the flag out right as the infraction is happening; if they get it out with in a second or two no one that matters will view it with any less credibility....Otherwise I think we're in agreement: get the call as close to right as possible, be consistent in what you call, and do it as quickly as possible. Sounds so easy, but it's beyond difficult.

Agreed, the fans are Audience #5 for a good referee (The Players, The Fellow Refs, the Coaches, the Assessor/Evaluator/League Office and then a distant 5th any and all fans who are not throwing batteries or road flares at you...)

But going back --- a quick good call is far superior to a very slow good call because that is how the players know that the ref or the crew are watching the same game that they players are playing. A very delayed penalty tells the players that the refs are thinking too much and therefore are not sure as to what they are seeing. And if they are not sure what they are seeing, then they can't provide consistency or justice.

I agree with you, the flag/the whistle should not be thrown/blown until after the infraction occurs, but in most situations, a good ref knows with a high degree of probability as the play develops if they need to call a foul. In my experience on the field, I can read body language/angles/speed and know a step before the challenge if the challenge has a high probability of being clean or not.

A good side judge can tell if a CB is beat and he can read the WR to see if the ball is underthrown, and from there, he should anticipate a collision that may or may not lead to pass interference as the WR slows up/comes back to the ball and the DB runs the WR over. That is what I mean by anticipation, be ready for the highly probable foul situations and recognize those situations before they actually occur.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Deadlines spur action. The sides are meeting for the first time in a month later today.