NFL Draft Talk

[Uptown]

 

[Since1960]

Earlier this afternoon before concluding Grace prior to our Easter dinner I happened to mention it would be wonderful blessing if the Lord could grant our Patriots during the NFL draft: (2) offensive tackles who could block, (2) wide receivers who could catch (1 of which being a great route runner with exceptional speed), (1) kicker who could kick straight & long, and a tight-end who could block & catch! Here’s hoping the Lord looked more favorable on my request than my wife did!! Oh well, it was worth the try…

 

[Huckleberry1]

There is no meaningful difference between Campbell and the next 5-6 LT prospects. One or more will be there at 38.
Take bpa at 4

And what do you base that on?

My bad, I should have realized that you base it on his articulation, just like Jayden Daniels.

 

[TommyD4207]

If it weren’t for that injury, I’d definitely take Simmons @ 4...Hell, I often think about them taking him @ 4 regardless of his current condition. That’s how naturally gifted he is.

If I knew he could play week 1, I'd be on board with it. If he's not coming back until after Halloween, then I'm not thrilled with the idea of Verdarian Lowe for half the season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I want to start by saying I am a huge Campbell fan!!! The athleticism is off the charts. As a run blocker, he is a beast!!! The running backs will love him much more than anybody currently on the roster.
But the fact remains, if pass rushers with longer arms get into campbell’s chest, it is game over and the pass rusher wins. Vrabel knows this.
I believe McDaniel can scheme around a lack of talent in an offensive tackle, by giving them extra help (unlike van pelt), but I do not know how McDaniel or anybody else can scheme around a lack of arm length.

His arms have been the same length for a while now, and he’s still been the best tackle in the SEC, where he faces the best pass rushers in college football. And I believe that the fact that he’s the best athlete to come out of college at tackle more than makes up for a 1/2 inch difference in arm length. We will see what happens Thursday, but I’m confident that if the Patriots take him he will be a huge upgrade at left tackle for them.

 

[signbabybrady]

His arms have been the same length for a while now, and he’s still been the best tackle in the SEC, where he faces the best pass rushers in college football. And I believe that the fact that he’s the best athlete to come out of college at tackle more than makes up for a 1/2 inch difference in arm length. We will see what happens Thursday, but I’m confident that if the Patriots take him he will be a huge upgrade at left tackle for them.

Even in the SEC what do you think his percentage of snaps vs actual NFL talent was?

Same question accept for starting level NFL talent and then same question pro bowl level talent?

And last question how many players out of the 20 years with similar arm length and wing span had similar pedigree and failed?


My only answer to the above questions is that if Vrabel's good with it then so am I and I'll stop worrying about it until its a problem but until Vrabel states that by taking him I don't think just playing in the SEC makes the issue go away.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Even in the SEC what do you think his percentage of snaps vs actual NFL talent was?

Same question accept for starting level NFL talent and then same question pro bowl level talent?

And last question how many players out of the 20 years with similar arm length and wing span had similar pedigree and failed?


My only answer to the above questions is that if Vrabel's good with it then so am I and I'll stop worrying about it until its a problem but until Vrabel states that by taking him I don't think just playing in the SEC makes the issue go away.

3 years starting at left tackle in the SEC gives a player a ton of snaps against NFL pass rushers. And as far as the arm length goes it is literally the ONLY argument anyone against taking Campbell has been able to produce. He is outstanding by every other metric or analysis. He has great size, he’s in the top 1% of all tackles tested athletically since 1987, his production is exceptional, only 4 sacks, and 1.5 pressures a game, he was the team captain and leader, and he was so intelligent as a football player that he was calling the offensive line adjustments from left tackle position, when those are almost exclusively called by Centers.

You want the perfect prospect, they don’t exist. I can find a knock or make a disparaging comparison against every prospect in this draft, as well as any other draft class. Carter has multiple injuries and character issues. Hunter, to my surprise, actually is the diva some here claimed he might be. Graham is way out of shape, Jeanty has no tread left on the tires, and on and on and on it goes. This truly the ******** season among NFL fans, where suddenly people who have never watched a snap from these kids is an expert. And they are saying idiotic **** like, he has no sand in the pants, his hips are too tight….and “ his arms are too short. Forget everything the guy has done in his career, stop the presses, his arms are 1/2 an inch too short, he’s a failure. Seriously, the ****ing stupidity in this forum is overflowing, and the raw sewage coming out isn’t going to stop anytime soon. It’s just like the real world at large, the idiots are the experts.

* And that’s not directed at you SBB, just my rant in general.

 

[TomPatriot]

If I knew he could play week 1, I'd be on board with it. If he's not coming back until after Halloween, then I'm not thrilled with the idea of Verdarian Lowe for half the season.

Vederian Lowe with a better OC is . . . still Vederian Lowe. Pats need a plug and play LT barring a trade for an established LT.

 

[KCSVEN]

Eagles Oline was made up of late rd Olinemen, 1 longtime vet RT taken in the top 10 but that was 10 years prior and a failed first rd pick OT converted to RG.

4 of the 5 Eagle OL starters were 1st or 2nd round picks, only Mailata was a late round pick.
2 were top 10 picks and the other 2 were within the top 51.

You can get playmakers lower in the draft: Nakua in the 5th, Nico Collins the 3rd, St Brown 4th. At RB Henry was a 2nd, Conner a 3rd, Irving a 4th, Cook a 2nd

PFF
5 of top 10 wr were 1st round picks
6 of top 10 rb were 1st round picks
7 of top 10 non centers were first round picks

Also add to the fact rb and wr hit rate in round 1 is significantly lower than tackles and guards,

We can't get it all in 1 draft but protecting Maye is priority #1 for his second year.
Jacobs was by far the worst tackle in football last year. Lowe was a little better but bottom tier.

 

[KCSVEN]

3 years starting at left tackle in the SEC gives a player a ton of snaps against NFL pass rushers.

People say that but I tried to find games against top pass rushers and it wasn't easy. Yeah, there are some good prospects in this draft he played against but not too many guys that have established themselves as NFL top pass rushers over his college career.

I watched Campbell vs Will Anderson. Unfortunately Campbell was an 18 year old freshman and Anderson was already one of the nations best pass rushers. Also Robinson did not line up on his side more than maybe 6 times but 3 of the times he schooled Campbell including a complete whiff by Campbell on 1 play..

I watched LSU game vs Jared Verse, again Verse rarely lined up over him but he was able to run right around Campbell for a blind side sack on one of the few plays.

He played South Carolina this year, has some good pass rushers, he was pretty good but beat a couple times.

He never face Abdul Carter. I'd love to find some games against top pass rushers that you can analyze him but hard to find.

A few things I noticed
-LSU lineman seem to lineup quite a bit off the ball, not sure Campbell will have that benefit in the NFL.
-Campbell does show really good footwork and pass blocking technique. He rarely gets beat around the edge. He can be bull rushed but does a solid job of staying engaged even as he is slowly pushed back.
-He is way more likely to get beat to the inside than bull rush or around the edge. Not sure if that is a coachable fix but hopefully.
-Run blocking is not as strong as pass blocking. Expected to see more power but does a good job of getting to the second level and uses leverage well. Needs to keep pad level lower on some running plays.

I think Campbell will be good against a good % of the NFL pass rushers he faces but will need help against some of the elite rushers. Membou has higher upside but Campbell has a lower floor.

 

[Huckleberry1]

People say that but I tried to find games against top pass rushers and it wasn't easy. Yeah, there are some good prospects i this draft he played against but not too many guys that have established themselves as NFL top pass rushers over his college career.

I watched Campbell vs Will Anderson. Unfortunately Campbell was an 18 year old freshman and Robinson was already one of the nations best pass rushers. Also Robinson did not line up on his side more than maybe 6 times but 3 of the times he schooled Campbell including a complete whiff by Campbell on 1 play..

I watched LSU game vs Jared Verse, again Verse rarely lined up over him but he was able to run right around Campbell for a blind side sack on one of the few plays.

He played South Carolina this year, has some good pass rushers, he was pretty good but beat a couple times.

He never face Abdul Carter. I'd love to find some games against top pass rushers that you can analyze him but hard to find.

A few things I noticed
-LSU lineman seem to lineup quite a bit off the ball, not sure Campbell will have that benefit in the NFL.
-Campbell does show really good footwork and pass blocking technique. He rarely gets beat around the edge. He can be bull rushed but does a solid job of staying engaged even as he is slowly pushed back.
-He is way more likely to get beat to the inside than bull rush or around the edge. Not sure if that is a coachable fix but hopefully.
-Run blocking is not as strong as pass blocking. Expected to see more power but does a good job of getting to the second level and uses leverage well. Needs to keep pad level lower on some running plays.

I think Campbell will be good against many % of the NFL pass rushers he faces but will need help against some of the elite rushers. Membou has higher upside but Campbell has a lower floor.

I’m heading to work, but realize that Campbell faced Verse as an 18 year old freshman.

 

[gobesmug]

4 of the 5 Eagle OL starters were 1st or 2nd round picks, only Mailata was a late round pick.
2 were top 10 picks and the other 2 were within the top 51.

You can get playmakers lower in the draft: Nakua in the 5th, Nico Collins the 3rd, St Brown 4th. At RB Henry was a 2nd, Conner a 3rd, Irving a 4th, Cook a 2nd

PFF
5 of top 10 wr were 1st round picks
6 of top 10 rb were 1st round picks
7 of top 10 non centers were first round picks

Also add to the fact rb and wr hit rate in round 1 is significantly lower than tackles and guards,

We can't get it all in 1 draft but protecting Maye is priority #1 for his second year.
Jacobs was by far the worst tackle in football last year. Lowe was a little better but bottom tier.

Their RG was a failed OT who they picked up cheaply in FA. Draft position makes no difference since they didn't draft him.

Their RT is on his 3rd contract but was taken in the top 10 when they did draft him, but a non rookie contract.

Their LT, which everyone agrees we need, was taken in the 6th rd and he is great LT.

LT is a definite need but BPA can't be ignored based purely on need. If Campbell or Membou is the BPA at #4 then so be it. I don't have my heart set on anyone but going into the draft saying draft a LT at #4 regardless on who is the board is foolish.

imagine if BB did that in 2001, when a starting LT was needed, and drafted Kenyata Walker to be the LT at #6 instead of taking Richard Seymour. He would have passelld on a HOF impact player that was crucial for those first 3 superbowl wins

 

[WazzuWheatfarmer]

People say that but I tried to find games against top pass rushers and it wasn't easy. Yeah, there are some good prospects i this draft he played against but not too many guys that have established themselves as NFL top pass rushers over his college career.

I watched Campbell vs Will Anderson. Unfortunately Campbell was an 18 year old freshman and Robinson was already one of the nations best pass rushers. Also Robinson did not line up on his side more than maybe 6 times but 3 of the times he schooled Campbell including a complete whiff by Campbell on 1 play..

I watched LSU game vs Jared Verse, again Verse rarely lined up over him but he was able to run right around Campbell for a blind side sack on one of the few plays.

He played South Carolina this year, has some good pass rushers, he was pretty good but beat a couple times.

He never face Abdul Carter. I'd love to find some games against top pass rushers that you can analyze him but hard to find.

A few things I noticed
-LSU lineman seem to lineup quite a bit off the ball, not sure Campbell will have that benefit in the NFL.
-Campbell does show really good footwork and pass blocking technique. He rarely gets beat around the edge. He can be bull rushed but does a solid job of staying engaged even as he is slowly pushed back.
-He is way more likely to get beat to the inside than bull rush or around the edge. Not sure if that is a coachable fix but hopefully.
-Run blocking is not as strong as pass blocking. Expected to see more power but does a good job of getting to the second level and uses leverage well. Needs to keep pad level lower on some running plays.

I think Campbell will be good against many % of the NFL pass rushers he faces but will need help against some of the elite rushers. Membou has higher upside but Campbell has a lower floor.

Most NFL Left Tackles need help against the elite pass rushers like Parsons. Those guys are really hard to block for anyone.

 

[signbabybrady]

People say that but I tried to find games against top pass rushers and it wasn't easy. Yeah, there are some good prospects i this draft he played against but not too many guys that have established themselves as NFL top pass rushers over his college career.

I watched Campbell vs Will Anderson. Unfortunately Campbell was an 18 year old freshman and Robinson was already one of the nations best pass rushers. Also Robinson did not line up on his side more than maybe 6 times but 3 of the times he schooled Campbell including a complete whiff by Campbell on 1 play..

I watched LSU game vs Jared Verse, again Verse rarely lined up over him but he was able to run right around Campbell for a blind side sack on one of the few plays.

He played South Carolina this year, has some good pass rushers, he was pretty good but beat a couple times.

He never face Abdul Carter. I'd love to find some games against top pass rushers that you can analyze him but hard to find.

A few things I noticed
-LSU lineman seem to lineup quite a bit off the ball, not sure Campbell will have that benefit in the NFL.
-Campbell does show really good footwork and pass blocking technique. He rarely gets beat around the edge. He can be bull rushed but does a solid job of staying engaged even as he is slowly pushed back.
-He is way more likely to get beat to the inside than bull rush or around the edge. Not sure if that is a coachable fix but hopefully.
-Run blocking is not as strong as pass blocking. Expected to see more power but does a good job of getting to the second level and uses leverage well. Needs to keep pad level lower on some running plays.

I think Campbell will be good against many % of the NFL pass rushers he faces but will need help against some of the elite rushers. Membou has higher upside but Campbell has a lower floor.

Thank you. This was the exact point I was trying to make even playing in the SEC his snaps vs NFL starters is still a tiny percentage.

 

[signbabybrady]

3 years starting at left tackle in the SEC gives a player a ton of snaps against NFL pass rushers. And as far as the arm length goes it is literally the ONLY argument anyone against taking Campbell has been able to produce. He is outstanding by every other metric or analysis. He has great size, he’s in the top 1% of all tackles tested athletically since 1987, his production is exceptional, only 4 sacks, and 1.5 pressures a game, he was the team captain and leader, and he was so intelligent as a football player that he was calling the offensive line adjustments from left tackle position, when those are almost exclusively called by Centers.

You want the perfect prospect, they don’t exist. I can find a knock or make a disparaging comparison against every prospect in this draft, as well as any other draft class. Carter has multiple injuries and character issues. Hunter, to my surprise, actually is the diva some here claimed he might be. Graham is way out of shape, Jeanty has no tread left on the tires, and on and on and on it goes. This truly the ******** season among NFL fans, where suddenly people who have never watched a snap from these kids is an expert. And they are saying idiotic **** like, he has no sand in the pants, his hips are too tight….and “ his arms are too short. Forget everything the guy has done in his career, stop the presses, his arms are 1/2 an inch too short, he’s a failure. Seriously, the ****ing stupidity in this forum is overflowing, and the raw sewage coming out isn’t going to stop anytime soon. It’s just like the real world at large, the idiots are the experts.

* And that’s not directed at you SBB, just my rant in general.

Glad it's not directed at me. And I kind of made a similar point regarding Tet yesterday too. Going off his college production he shouldn't be taking the hit he is.

Unfortunately for these guys the 40 time and arm length are real concerns. Tet might have a few other things where Campbell literally has only the one flag.

Bottom line is like you said there are no perfect prospects. But there are several of these guys that look like really good prospects and we just need to get the right one for us and not get too caught up in focussing on the flaws especially after the pick we need to give these kids a chance.

 

[Water Boy]

Seriously, the ****ing stupidity in this forum is overflowing, and the raw sewage coming out isn’t going to stop anytime soon.

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

 

[patfanken]

If it weren’t for that injury, I’d definitely take Simmons @ 4...Hell, I often think about them taking him @ 4 regardless of his current condition. That’s how naturally gifted he is.

Interesting and informative information in these last 2 pages of OT talk. The guy who did the medical clip on the effects of a patella tendon tear REALLY changed my mind on Simmonds (and for that matter my expectations on Strange. Even in a partial tear, a great operation, and a diligent rehab, the tendon will always be weaker and athletic performance will always be less.

WOW! That was eye popping info (at least to me). There is NO way now I'd pick Simmonds anywhere in the first or even 2nd for that matter. Assuming that what the "expert" said was true of course.

Someone please make me feel better by giving me a couple of players who suffered partial patella tendon tears who recovered and played as well AFTER the injury as they played before it.

As for Campbell, I don't care about the arm length as I do about the wing-span. That discrepancy is about an inch or less. If I'm not mistaken it's about 5 inches and that IS significant. I guess his college resume rates him a first round designation, but at #4. I don't think so.

I get the need, really I do, but I think the spot requires someone with a higher ceiling. I don't see him being an immediate impact player. Top 10 maybe, but not #4. I'd actually feel better with Membou if an OT is your absolute priority. I won't hate it if Campbell is the pick, but I WILL feel less than satisfied.

BTW- I am convinced that neither Carter or Hunter will be there at #4 and if we go LT then Edge needs to be our next priority, there will still be good prospects at WR in the 3rd round.

 

[signbabybrady]

As for Campbell, I don't care about the arm length as I do about the wing-span. That discrepancy is about an inch or less. If I'm not mistaken it's about 5 inches and that IS significant. I guess his college resume rates him a first round designation, but at #4. I don't think so.

I get the need, really I do, but I think the spot requires someone with a higher ceiling. I don't see him being an immediate impact player. Top 10 maybe, but not #4. I'd actually feel better with Membou if an OT is your absolute priority. I won't hate it if Campbell is the pick, but I WILL feel less than satisfied.

In a weird way I think Campbell has one of the highest ceilings and one of the highest floors. But he has this weird trap door where he could just fall right through.

 

[crownontherocks]

Milton had more value and we got a 5th is it even worth looking to trade him. Unless your packaging him for pickens

 

[Brotherblues]

This is a tricky draft. After Carter and Hunter there is probably like 10 players i would be happy getting at #4.

That's why I don't think a trade down will happen.

Yep. The 10 teams picking right after us probably feel the same.

Doesn't stop folks from pumping out mocks with trade downs every day. Mock draft season is the most useless part of the of whole offseason. Can't be over soon enough.