NFL.com ranking of backup QBs: Mallett #11, Tebow #17

[belichick010405]

To your question - Mallett would have been as successful as Cassel when Brady was hurt if he had as much as a full handle of this offense as Brady did when he became the starter in 2001 and if he was able to be as good as someone like Matt Cassel in the intermediate passing game.

There is no doubt that Mallett can throw deep.

 

[Demosthenes]

You just assume that he is going to be here when camp breaks don't you?

Like he is that good to be a member of this team. Ridiculous.

Yeah, I think he'll be here as QB#3 when camp breaks. So what ? There's quite a number of people around here, including senior board members who think that he'll make the roster.

I've seen the talk about how Belichick "usually" only carries 2 QBs. According to ESPN, that is either a flawed view or people are only talking about very recent history.

Here's the breakdown:

2012: 2 (Brady/Mallett)
2011: 3 (Brady/Hoyer/Mallett)
2010: 2 (Brady/Hoyer)
2009: 2 (Brady/Hoyer)
2008: 3 (Brady/Cassel/O'Connell)
2007: 3 (Brady/Cassel/Gutierrez)
2006: 2/3 (Brady/Cassel -- Testaverde/mid-year)
2005: 3 (Brady/Cassel/Flutie)
2004: 3 (Brady/Davey/Miller)
2003: 3 (Brady/Davey/Huard)
2002: 3 (Brady/Davey/Huard)
2001: 3 (Bledsoe/Brady/Huard)
2000: 4 (Bledsoe/Friesz/Bishop/Brady)

Over the past 13 seasons, the Pats have only carried 2 QBs on the roster 3 times. They've carried 3 quarterbacks 8 times and 4 QBs once. Honestly can't say if the NFL made any changes concerning roster limits that might have affected the decisions.

 

[Demosthenes]

To your question - Mallett would have been as successful as Cassel when Brady was hurt if he had as much as a full handle of this offense as Brady did when he became the starter in 2001 and if he was able to be as good as someone like Matt Cassel in the intermediate passing game.

There is no doubt that Mallett can throw deep.

With all the qualifications you put in that answer, it's actually kind of hard to figure out what you are saying.

Simple question. If Mallet came in and started the last 3 games of his rookie season, how do you think he would have looked ? Next, if he had taken over in game 6 of his second NFL season and finished out the season, how do you think he would have done ?

 

[belichick010405]

Yeah, I think he'll be here as QB#3 when camp breaks. So what ? There's quite a number of people around here, including senior board members who think that he'll make the roster.

I've seen the talk about how Belichick "usually" only carries 2 QBs. According to ESPN, that is either a flawed view or people are only talking about very recent history.

Here's the breakdown:




Over the past 13 seasons, the Pats have only carried 2 QBs on the roster 3 times. They've carried 3 quarterbacks 8 times and 4 QBs once. Honestly can't say if the NFL made any changes concerning roster limits that might have affected the decisions.

I'm sorry but you said it yourself. If you think that Tebow is going to be the QB3 on this squad, considering the need to have depth covered at positions where a QB3 is nothing more than insurance, then you don't know BB and how he runs this team.

He is going to keep the 53 that is going to help this team get to a Super Bowl and that requires positional versatility. He is not going to keep a QB3, as noted by the trend that he has had over the last five years unless he thinks that Brady is going to get hurt, when he has all of the players on the current 90-man roster that will be competing for the 25 or so defensive players that he will start the year with and the other 23 offensive players not named Tom Brady.

So unless Tim Tebow plays a role other than quarterback, he won't be here.

And the sooner you realize that - the better you will know how this team does its' business.

And - as far as quarterback prospects go - if you think that BB considers Mallett as a lesser true quarterback prospect than Tebow then you don't know BB either.

Unless Mallett completely folds in the pre-season and has not progressed since last year, then he is the #2. And, I highly doubt that he has taken a step back. Like Tebow and this is the only thing that Tebow and Mallett share in common is that Mallett, if the Patriots are looking past him when his current rookie contract ends, will also be seeking a second contract.

I highly doubt that Mallett wants to go by the wayside, given his athletic attributes and that shotgun of an arm that he has, like Brian Hoyer.

 

[situational_awareness]

Tebow is one member of the 90-man roster. He is likely going to be a roster bubble candidate. In my view, Tebow is not making this roster and there is no way that Mallett is giving up his backup role. Why we have to continue belabor a point that frankly have been proven time and again is beyond me because of a group of people that simply don't get it.

How is your prediction or opinion... a point that has been proven?

BTW, you don't have to belabor the point. You are choosing to. Seriously, do us all a favor and DON'T belabor it.

 

[Demosthenes]

I'm sorry but you said it yourself. If you think that Tebow is going to be the QB3 on this squad, considering the need to have depth covered at positions where a QB3 is nothing more than insurance, then you don't know BB and how he runs this team.

He is going to keep the 53 that is going to help this team get to a Super Bowl and that requires positional versatility. He is not going to keep a QB3, as noted by the trend that he has had over the last five years unless he thinks that Brady is going to get hurt, when he has all of the players on the current 90-man roster that will be competing for the 25 or so defensive players that he will start the year with and the other 23 offensive players not named Tom Brady.

So unless Tim Tebow plays a role other than quarterback, he won't be here.

And the sooner you realize that - the better you will know how this team does its' business.

Really ? The SOONER I REALIZE THAT, the better ?

Is about 15 days ago soon enough ?

07-01-2013, 02:29 PM #75
Demosthenes
Practice Squad

How about a slightly different calculation ? The Pats keep 3 QBs including Tebow and they use him as needed for each role. Then, they don't need to keep an additional TE, an additional RB, an additional WR and add a FB ?
That frees up quite a few roster spots. The slots in question are all bottom of the depth chart for their position, so it's not like your getting "prime" talent in those positions to begin with. Rather, you will be getting someone "serviceable".

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that they could or should try to turn Tebow into TE1 or TE2. But he could serve as TE 3,4, or 5, or WR 7 in a slash type role, or a RB3 or FB2 on a fill in basis, if only to spell others at the position and give them a breather.

It's a case where he might not (and probably wouldn't) be better than any one individual that he would be replacing, BUT, his versatility could more than make up for it as it frees up roster slots.

(BTW, I should add that I'm personally against this as I'd prefer that he just be a QB3 and spend time developing at that position. But Bill and company aren't knocking on my door asking for my input, so it's a moot point )

And - as far as quarterback prospects go - if you think that BB considers Mallett as a lesser true quarterback prospect than Tebow then you don't know BB either.

I don't presume to know what's going through BB's head (or Josh's for that matter), and I seriously doubt you do either.

Unless Mallett completely folds in the pre-season and has not progressed since last year, then he is the #2. And, I highly doubt that he has taken a step back. Like Tebow and this is the only thing that Tebow and Mallett share in common is that Mallett, if the Patriots are looking past him when his current rookie contract ends, will also be seeking a second contract.

I highly doubt that Mallett wants to go by the wayside, given his athletic attributes and that shotgun of an arm that he has, like Brian Hoyer.

I'm sure that you meant "regressed" instead of "progressed". Anyways, I don't know how Mallet done. We will know soon enough. Perhaps he regressed, it's doubtful. Perhaps he's progressed. If so, how much. Then again, perhaps he's reached his ceiling ? Again, we don't know.

Same questions can be asked about Tebow. Throw in the question of his mechanics and whether they are better and "locked in" to muscle memory, or if he'll revert back when in the pocket.

Somewhat of a wild card in this is the offense that Josh ran in Denver, how similar was it to what he's running here, and how much of it did Tebow take in? It might be the case that Tebow already has quite a bit of familiarity with the offense from his time with Josh in Denver, so that might make things a bit easier for him. Then again, maybe not. He might have to learn a completely new offense, which would definitely make things harder for him.

 

[belichick010405]

I'm done with this ****.

 

[Off The Grid]

 

[manxman2601]

It is apologize Mr. De Ja ******* Vu.

Not in the United Kingdom it isn't. Nice try.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, I think he'll be here as QB#3 when camp breaks. So what ? There's quite a number of people around here, including senior board members who think that he'll make the roster.

I've seen the talk about how Belichick "usually" only carries 2 QBs. According to ESPN, that is either a flawed view or people are only talking about very recent history.

Here's the breakdown:




Over the past 13 seasons, the Pats have only carried 2 QBs on the roster 3 times. They've carried 3 quarterbacks 8 times and 4 QBs once. Honestly can't say if the NFL made any changes concerning roster limits that might have affected the decisions.

You obviously haven't been following this team very long if you assume someone is going to be here by the time camp breaks, much less a QB3 and a project at that. There are ridiculous and shocking cuts by this team seemingly every year. See: Seymour, Richard; Meriweather, Brandon

 

[Nunchucks]

The Patriots may keep 3 QBs on the roster, but the 3rd QB might not be Tebow, it could be a cut from another team. I think the Patriots will put more value on keeping a guy at a position other than QB, especially if Mallet has continued to improve in the offseason.

 

[Concerned_Citizen]

Careful now, as you are getting close to arguing that Tebow was a great leader and the team actually BELIEVED in his ability to win.

Future HoF'er Champ Bailey said himself that he played harder for Tebow. That's not to say that he didn't give 100% every time he stepped on the field. But it would seem that when Tebow was the QB, he gave even more. Replicate that throughout a defense and an entire team and it will probably lead to a vast improvement.

I don't know where you got me arguing that the team was a big believer in Tebow out of all that... but... okay... reading comp was never your strong suit as numerous times you have attempted to spin what I wrote into something it was not.

Champ Bailey ALSO said the defense was gassed because it seemed like they never got a break and were always trotting back out there after a few plays. That must've been Decker's fault or something, cuz Tebow was REALLY good. *sarcasm* He ALSO said prior to the Pats game last year that looking back at the playoff game against the Pats, he really didn't feel like that was a roster of 53 guys that really felt like they could win the game during that week leading up to the game. This is right after the Pittsburgh game you Tebots hold on to like some life preserver of inspiration, and this is WITH Tebow as the leader. I would have thought they'd be riding some emotional high that game, but it never came to be I guess. That game seemed to me like it was over in 5 minutes.

The novelty of having a loud college star must have worn off by then, cuz that was NOT an "inspired" team out there. In fact, it looked more like Champ said, a team that was no longer a big believer in themselves. Going 1-4 in the last 5 with some of the worst offensive production and a defense worn out from carrying the team all year will do that.

All that "inspirational" stuff is BS. There were a few that really liked him and stepped up their game. But overall, the "Tebow led" team quit in the playoffs. Probably got tired of carrying him while he mopped up all the credit from people like you.

Defense could only carry Tebow and his ineptitude at QB for so long before it wore on them, and it really showed against the Pats.

 

[Concerned_Citizen]

There were ZERO people ANYWHERE in New England that season who thought Brady should start over Bledsoe.

Pretty much with Brady. But it was obvious from the minute he got the start that he actually had talent. It seems any team that gets a good look at Tebow can't get rid of him fast enough. Jets tried to GIVE him away after they were suckered by the Broncos into taking his contract and ended up having no choice but to cut him when the Tebow phone grew cobwebs.

Not sure why these Tebots are seeing a parallel here with Brady, or a young Elway. Most knew he was talented, but the majority aren't thinking the same about the three and out king of dirt missiles. Pretty much why his career was on life support this offseason. Well, that and the circus clowns contaminating the local water supply with kool-aid.

 

[Concerned_Citizen]

You should sit down and watch some game tape of these guys, you'd see that they're totally different players from Tebow. None off them were run first QB's, Tebow basically has the playing style of a pre-prison Michael Vick, and one third of the talent of a post-prison Michael Vick.

You know who Tebow is? He's the modern day Bobby Douglas.

bobby douglas - YouTube

Watch this short video, insert Tebow's name there, and tell me this isn't the same dude. I'm not even sure it is an insult.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I could not care less if T2 does or does not make the 53 with a slight preference to not because it would mean that there was some other 53rd player BB thought was a better backup with more upside, but the memory of Berry benching Flutie still pisses me off. And no I'm not a BC grad or fan of their over-hyped team. Flutie was undefeated in the old stadium. Best of all, after being humiliated in the Super Bowl by Da Bears, Chicago comes to Foxboro and on the 1st play from scrimmage, Flutie tosses an 80 yd TD bomb to Irving Fryar. Pats smoked the Bears 35 to something. You newbies cannot understand how important such a game was because the Pats had decades of being the Patsies and were a league laughingstock, made worse by their abject humiliation in their only SB. Flutie kicked vaunted Bear ass and for a brief game we could get jacked and pumped about our troubled franchise.

/end rant

 

[Off The Grid]

I could not care less if T2 does or does not make the 53 with a slight preference to not because it would mean that there was some other 53rd player BB thought was a better backup with more upside, but the memory of Berry benching Flutie still pisses me off. And no I'm not a BC grad or fan of their over-hyped team. Flutie was undefeated in the old stadium. Best of all, after being humiliated in the Super Bowl by Da Bears, Chicago comes to Foxboro and on the 1st play from scrimmage, Flutie tosses an 80 yd TD bomb to Irving Fryar. Pats smoked the Bears 35 to something. You newbies cannot understand how important such a game was because the Pats had decades of being the Patsies and were a league laughingstock, made worse by their abject humiliation in their only SB. Flutie kicked vaunted Bear ass and for a brief game we could get jacked and pumped about our troubled franchise.

/end rant

Yeah, that was a great day!! Even though I was at Fort Devens that day and heard the Score on the Radio, I actually remember exactly where I was and what the lighting was. 30-7, if I recall...Yes!! Exactly!!

1988 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

That was actually exactly 4 weeks ~ this I had to look up, believe me!! ~ after that crazy Game when the 1-3 Patriots were losing at Foxboro to the 1-3 Colts. You see a ton of Games, but this is one of the very few that I was ever able to attend. Were you there that day? Remember Tom Ramsey?? I actually liked the guy, but my GOD, he sucked, that day, and then they finally yoinked'm and that place went NUTS when they sent Flutie in!! :rocker:

And when he took the BootLeg Left to score from 13 Yards out, that place just EXPLODED.

Didn't it feel like he single-handedly turned a 5-11 Season into a PlayOff Run, that year??

Have any Head Coaches who suddenly & inexplicably destroyed their Team's PlayOff Runs by benching Flutie, who'd single-handedly raised their Fortunes from the Ashes, not get their sorry @$$es fired one short year later??

Rhetorical Question. :snob:

Ray Berry & Wade Phillips, For Those Scoring At Home.

 

[Gumby]

I'm sorry but you said it yourself. If you think that Tebow is going to be the QB3 on this squad, considering the need to have depth covered at positions where a QB3 is nothing more than insurance, then you don't know BB and how he runs this team.

He is going to keep the 53 that is going to help this team get to a Super Bowl and that requires positional versatility. He is not going to keep a QB3, as noted by the trend that he has had over the last five years unless he thinks that Brady is going to get hurt, when he has all of the players on the current 90-man roster that will be competing for the 25 or so defensive players that he will start the year with and the other 23 offensive players not named Tom Brady.

So unless Tim Tebow plays a role other than quarterback, he won't be here.

And the sooner you realize that - the better you will know how this team does its' business.

And - as far as quarterback prospects go - if you think that BB considers Mallett as a lesser true quarterback prospect than Tebow then you don't know BB either.

Unless Mallett completely folds in the pre-season and has not progressed since last year, then he is the #2. And, I highly doubt that he has taken a step back. Like Tebow and this is the only thing that Tebow and Mallett share in common is that Mallett, if the Patriots are looking past him when his current rookie contract ends, will also be seeking a second contract.

I highly doubt that Mallett wants to go by the wayside, given his athletic attributes and that shotgun of an arm that he has, like Brian Hoyer.

I think you mis-judge the decision criteria a bit. While the choice of how many QBs are kept is SOMEWHAT related to the talent level of the other 51 positions the MAIN CRITERIA is the PERCEIVED TALENT of the # 2 QB.

If the # 2 doesnt have BB's COMPLETE trust; he WILL KEEP 3 QBs. It isn't about whether he thinks TB will get hurt. TB doesnt enter into the equation.
NOTE: I also think at least one of the years he carried 2 we had solid career QBs on the shadow roster (testaverde or others) who were not going to go play for anybody but BB if he needed them.

And he brought TT in to COMPETE (and perhaps PUSH Mallett) so if he is pushing him - whose to say he can't (unlikely though it may be) PASS HIM..... making Mallet trade-bait. Then, in that case the 2 he keeps are not the 2 you think.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yeah, that was a great day!! Even though I was at Fort Devens that day and heard the Score on the Radio, I actually remember exactly where I was and what the lighting was. 30-7, if I recall...Yes!! Exactly!!

1988 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

That was actually exactly 4 weeks ~ this I had to look up, believe me!! ~ after that crazy Game when the 1-3 Patriots were losing at Foxboro to the 1-3 Colts. You see a ton of Games, but this is one of the very few that I was ever able to attend. Were you there that day? Remember Tom Ramsey?? I actually liked the guy, but my GOD, he sucked, that day, and then they finally yoinked'm and that place went NUTS when they sent Flutie in!! :rocker:

And when he took the BootLeg Left to score from 13 Yards out, that place just EXPLODED.

Didn't it feel like he single-handedly turned a 5-11 Season into a PlayOff Run, that year??

YES!!!


Have any Head Coaches who suddenly & inexplicably destroyed their Team's PlayOff Runs by benching Flutie, who'd single-handedly raised their Fortunes from the Ashes, not get their sorry @$$es fired one short year later??

Rhetorical Question. :snob:

Ray Berry & Wade Phillips, For Those Scoring At Home.

I used to be able to drive from Sudsberry where I lived through beautiful foliage Metrowest back roads to Fox and pick up good seats cheap or face in the parking lots on nice weather game days. Great way to spend a fall Sunday.

Oh and for the newbies, Flutie had played for the Bears and was released by them before coming to the Patriots (his 1st time, pre BB era)

 

[Demosthenes]

You obviously haven't been following this team very long if you assume someone is going to be here by the time camp breaks, much less a QB3 and a project at that. There are ridiculous and shocking cuts by this team seemingly every year. See: Seymour, Richard; Meriweather, Brandon

I was asked if I thought Tebow would make the roster and I said "Yes". I also pointed out that some senior forum members here have the same opinion.

Of course I could be wrong. I mean, I'd be willing to place a small wager on Tebow making the roster, but I definitely wouldn't bet my house on it.

The Patriots may keep 3 QBs on the roster, but the 3rd QB might not be Tebow, it could be a cut from another team. I think the Patriots will put more value on keeping a guy at a position other than QB, especially if Mallet has continued to improve in the offseason.

Depends on why they brought Tebow in. You could be right, or maybe not. As I said in a reply to Belicheck, I don't know what's going on in BB's head.

Right now, everything is speculation. Was he brought in to give Mallet some competition to drive him and make him better? Was he brought in due to his versatility (i.e. see if they can play him at another position)? Was he brought in as a development project hoping for a future return on investment either through trading him or freeing up Mallet for a trade?


Hopefully, we'll all find out soon enough.

 

[Demosthenes]

I could not care less if T2 does or does not make the 53 with a slight preference to not because it would mean that there was some other 53rd player BB thought was a better backup with more upside, but the memory of Berry benching Flutie still pisses me off. .....
/end rant

Yeah, that was a great day!! Even though I was at Fort Devens that day and heard the Score on the Radio, I actually remember exactly where I was and what the lighting was. 30-7, if I recall...Yes!! Exactly!!

........

I used to be able to drive from Sudsberry where I lived through beautiful foliage Metrowest back roads to Fox and pick up good seats cheap or face in the parking lots on nice weather game days. Great way to spend a fall Sunday.

Oh and for the newbies, Flutie had played for the Bears and was released by them before coming to the Patriots (his 1st time, pre BB era)

Thanks for the history. It's one of the things that makes boards so interesting. WRT Flutie, loved the guy at BC, especially that Miami game. Man, I hated Miami so that made it extra special. Was sad how he continuously got screwed by coaches making stupid decisions.