NEW ARTICLE: Did The Patriots Blow Their Season By Winning?

[PatsFans.com Article]

Did The Patriots Blow Their Season By Winning?
Bob George
New plan. Bailey Zappe starts next year. First draft pick now becomes a tackle.

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[sb1]

Of course Bob George…

 

[Scotty]

Did The Patriots Blow Their Season By Winning?
Bob George
New plan. Bailey Zappe starts next year. First draft pick now becomes a tackle.

The post Did The Patriots Blow Their Season By Winning? appeared first on PatsFans.com.

Continue reading...

(If you enjoyed this entry - hit the Thumbs Up/If not, hit the Thumbs down in this thread)

One Swallow doth not make a summer

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Houston had to trade up to get a top two pick last year. Whereas beating Indy would have meant they take their guy at one. Yeah, it looks like it probably worked out for them. But not every team is as lucky as they got.

Steelers were going one and done in the postseason. Even if they made it. Beating them is nice. But by Sunday, nobody will care anymore. Fans will care if they don't end up with a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years.

This team isn't losing to the Jets. So now you gotta hope they beat Washington or another team before week 18. Their QB's might be the worst in the league. And I don't think their ownership cares about continuing a losing streak to the Pats if it means they get a top two pick. Even if the team took a knee on offense every snap, the D might still be too good against bottom feeding Jets QB's.

Note: I don't think players would, or should, ever tank. They care about their next job and getting more money. The guy on D who is a rotation player doesn't care about Williams or Maye. I am just looking at this from a fan perspective.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

Houston had to trade up to get a top two pick last year. Whereas beating Indy would have meant they take their guy at one. Yeah, it looks like it probably worked out for them. But not every team is as lucky as they got.

Steelers were going one and done in the postseason. Even if they made it. Beating them is nice. But by Sunday, nobody will care anymore. Fans will care if they don't end up with a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years.

This team isn't losing to the Jets. So now you gotta hope they beat Washington or another team before week 18. Their QB's might be the worst in the league. And I don't think their ownership cares about continuing a losing streak to the Pats if it means they get a top two pick. Even if the team took a knee on offense every snap, the D might still be too good against bottom feeding Jets QB's.

Note: I don't think players would, or should, ever tank. They care about their next job and getting more money. The guy on D who is a rotation player doesn't care about Williams or Maye. I am just looking at this from a fan perspective.

I for one don't believe players ever tank. I do think organizations do, though.

While I don't like the idea of tanking I feel like if you really suck, I don't mind you continuing to suck to get the top pick. That said, beating the Steelers never gets old. I think the real question is do we actually have something with Zappe, or did all the stars just align for a few hours and next week he'll revert to what we're used to? (the more likely scenario).

As for the top pick, none of it matters if the coaching/GM room stays the same. I will always appreciate Bill, but he has shown again and again he can neither shop for the groceries or develop young talent any longer.

It's hard not to look at the Niners and what they've helped Brock Purdy develop into while building a top 5 team. Mac is a big part of the problem, but I wonder if he had ended up in SF if he would be having a similar trajectory.

 

[VrabelJr]

I for one don't believe players ever tank. I do think organizations do, though.

While I don't like the idea of tanking I feel like if you really suck, I don't mind you continuing to suck to get the top pick. That said, beating the Steelers never gets old. I think the real question is do we actually have something with Zappe, or did all the stars just align for a few hours and next week he'll revert to what we're used to? (the more likely scenario).

As for the top pick, none of it matters if the coaching/GM room stays the same. I will always appreciate Bill, but he has shown again and again he can neither shop for the groceries or develop young talent any longer.

It's hard not to look at the Niners and what they've helped Brock Purdy develop into. Mac is a big part of the problem, but I wonder if he had ended up in SF if he would be having a similar trajectory.

People need to stop discrediting Purdy. At least two other QBs (Jimmy G, Beathard) on SF were not as productive as he has been. He’s clearly a pretty good QB.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I would wager we most likely can afford this win and one over the jets to stay at #2

I have a hard time seeing ten, chi, az, wash, or nyg losing out. Jets may lose out.

So Jets and az may tie us at 4 wins but we should have the sos tiebreaker on both. The rest of those teams should finish with at least 5 wins

Optimistic

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

People need to stop discrediting Purdy. At least two other QBs (Jimmy G, Beathard) on SF were not as productive as he has been. He’s clearly a pretty good QB.

I agree. Purdy isn't just along for the ride anymore. He clearly is doing the work and is a huge part of his development. But they surrounded him with great players at virtually every position through smart drafting, timely trades, and a winning culture. Purdy wasn't who he is now when he was drafted, but he was given a huge opportunity to become it. It's hard not to compare the circumstances of his rise to Brady's. Time will tell if that comparison continues.

 

[Real fan 02]

Of course Bob George…

Hey.. as a fan.. if Zapp turned out to be a starting QB, and played well and we won the rest if the way.. I'd have to give him his props.. however... the 2nd half reminded me...

 

[sb1]

Hey.. as a fan.. if Zapp turned out to be a starting QB, and played well and we won the rest if the way.. I'd have to give him his props.. however... the 2nd half reminded me...

The first half was the best he's ever looked in the league. By far. It's about time. I wasn't all that impressed with his "good" games in 2022 but I was last night. I'll always give props when they're deserved and they were. The Steeler defense is not a tomato can they're legit and he did this on the road.

Re the second half he definitely had the reins put back on so it's hard to say too much about it. The pick was a poor throw but the OL started to get beat too and they were on that play.

His ceiling is still very low and his arm and height are the main reasons why... but might as well at least let him finish up the season as our QB1.

 

[Steve102]

The first half was the best he's ever looked in the league. By far. It's about time. I wasn't all that impressed with his "good" games in 2022 but I was last night. I'll always give props when they're deserved and they were. The Steeler defense is not a tomato can they're legit and he did this on the road.

Re the second half he definitely had the reins put back on so it's hard to say too much about it. The pick was a poor throw but the OL started to get beat too and they were on that play.

His ceiling is still very low and his arm and height are the main reasons why... but might as well at least let him finish up the season as our QB1.

I thought he was excellent in the first half as well. They definitely played not to lose in the second, and it almost cost them.

 

[Real fan 02]

The first half was the best he's ever looked in the league. By far. It's about time. I wasn't all that impressed with his "good" games in 2022 but I was last night. I'll always give props when they're deserved and they were. The Steeler defense is not a tomato can they're legit and he did this on the road.

Re the second half he definitely had the reins put back on so it's hard to say too much about it. The pick was a poor throw but the OL started to get beat too and they were on that play.

His ceiling is still very low and his arm and height are the main reasons why... but might as well at least let him finish up the season as our QB1.

Well put. I'm just waiting for the poster he knows whk is is.. LOL to start the Mac talk. But I'm with you. I give him his props for winning. QBs are judged on Wins.. if he can continue to Win like say Purdy has done then he'll garner some more respect nationally. Yeah he'll finish as the QB1 Malik is breathing down his neck LOL.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I agree. Purdy isn't just along for the ride anymore. He clearly is doing the work and is a huge part of his development. But they surrounded him with great players at virtually every position through smart drafting, timely trades, and a winning culture. Purdy wasn't who he is now when he was drafted, but he was given a huge opportunity to become it. It's hard not to compare the circumstances of his rise to Brady's. Time will tell if that comparison continues.

I think the comparisons are natural. Both drafted late. Both were not forecasted as starters immediately. Both excelled with great coaching.

Where the comparisons end imo are:

I've yet to see Purdy lead a 10 point comeback against a great team. He seems like a guy that does great ahead. Yet, isn't as good down two scores. Deebo and Williams are important players. But Purdy wasn't nearly as good without them. Which is to say, he still needs to prove he can succeed without having everything at his disposal. Brady never had a Kittel at TE. Deebo at WR. Trent Williams is a HOF lineman.

Brady, even early on, never seemed to get flustered when trailing. He did not need all pro players everywhere. He found a way to win tough games (Oakland snow game, Chicago in 02, Denver in 03, First few Super bowls).

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

I think the comparisons are natural. Both drafted late. Both were not forecasted as starters immediately. Both excelled with great coaching.

Where the comparisons end imo are:

I've yet to see Purdy lead a 10 point comeback against a great team. He seems like a guy that does great ahead. Yet, isn't as good down two scores. Deebo and Williams are important players. But Purdy wasn't nearly as good without them. Which is to say, he still needs to prove he can succeed without having everything at his disposal. Brady never had a Kittel at TE. Deebo at WR. Trent Williams is a HOF lineman.

Brady, even early on, never seemed to get flustered when trailing. He did not need all pro players everywhere. He found a way to win tough games (Oakland snow game, Chicago in 02, Denver in 03, First few Super bowls).

Man, I love Brady as much as anyone here, but to say Brady never had a Kittle at TE? He had Gronk. I think people have forgotten how amazing that guy was. And while no one is quite like Deebo, Brady had some pretty awesome weapons over the course of his career, no real need to list them here as we all know them.

I'm not sitting here saying Purdy is going to be the next Brady (I don't think anyone ever will). The comparison for me is the environment they got to develop in: stable high end coaching and GM, a winning culture, and an excellent team already built around them, while not putting all the onus on the QB to win the game. That allowed Brady (and so far Purdy) to develop and gain confidence. It will remain to be seen if Purdy becomes a superstar like Brady did, but he certainly was dealt WAY better cards than Mac was.

Really the only mistake the 49ers have made the past few years was dealing to get Lance. If they hadn't done that there would be no parity in this league right now and the 9ers would be the next dynasty.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Man, I love Brady as much as anyone here, but to say Brady never had a Kittle at TE? He had Gronk. I think people have forgotten how amazing that guy was. And while no one is quite like Deebo, Brady had some pretty awesome weapons over the course of his career, no real need to list them here as we all know them.

I'm not sitting here saying Purdy is going to be the next Brady (I don't think anyone ever will). The comparison for me is the environment they got to develop in: stable high end coaching and GM, a winning culture, and an excellent team already built around them, while not putting all the onus on the QB to win the game. That allowed Brady (and so far Purdy) to develop and gain confidence. It will remain to be seen if Purdy becomes a superstar like Brady did, but he certainly was dealt WAY better cards than Mac was.

Really the only mistake the 49ers have made the past few years was dealing to get Lance. If they hadn't done that there would be no parity in this league right now and the 9ers would be the next dynasty.

I'm referring to Brady's beginning.

He had no Gronk at TE during the first dynasty. Nor Moss or Welker.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

I'm referring to Brady's beginning.

He had no Gronk at TE during the first dynasty. Nor Moss or Welker.

Fair enough. I think we're agreeing on the main point, which is that both QBs were able to develop in an awesome environment. Brady was able to use it, along with his ridiculous work ethic, to become the force that he was. Purdy has become a pretty good QB, thriving in a great environment. Time will tell if he becomes great.

 

[RIpats88]

I agree. Purdy isn't just along for the ride anymore. He clearly is doing the work and is a huge part of his development. But they surrounded him with great players at virtually every position through smart drafting, timely trades, and a winning culture. Purdy wasn't who he is now when he was drafted, but he was given a huge opportunity to become it. It's hard not to compare the circumstances of his rise to Brady's. Time will tell if that comparison continues.

i'm also not sure Purdy would be who he is if say he got drafted to New England instead of San Francisco. if you gave him 3 OC's in 3 years, one year being a DC and juju/parker as his top receivers.

maybe he would rise above it. but its okay to admit right now this isn't the best situation for a QB to develop in. its why i'm scared for whomever we draft unless we vastly improve the offensive talent.

as far as the threads premise. I'm kind of torn. on one hand look at the Jets. lost out on Trevor lawrence because they won a meaningless game at the end of the season. sure Jets fans celebrated that week like we did with the steelers win. but I bet they wish they got that #1 pick instead of zach wilson.

on the other hand, I don't really believe in tanking "purposely" I think you go out and play the games. Our worst case scenario is Zappe plays us out of a top 2 pick by having a winning record in a schedule against the chiefs, bills, denver, jets. if thats our worst case then it means we may have an answer on a starter for next year...and we just draft harrison or a top WR.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Not so fast my friend. If we lose out, there’s a decent chance we pick 1st. Carolina has two winnable games. A struggling GB team at home next week. Last game of season vs TB. If TB has to win they beat Carolina. But, TB could clinch division in week 16 by beating and sweeping NO. Making wk 17 irrelevant to them.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

i'm also not sure Purdy would be who he is if say he got drafted to New England instead of San Francisco. if you gave him 3 OC's in 3 years, one year being a DC and juju/parker as his top receivers.

maybe he would rise above it. but its okay to admit right now this isn't the best situation for a QB to develop in. its why i'm scared for whomever we draft unless we vastly improve the offensive talent.

as far as the threads premise. I'm kind of torn. on one hand look at the Jets. lost out on Trevor lawrence because they won a meaningless game at the end of the season. sure Jets fans celebrated that week like we did with the steelers win. but I bet they wish they got that #1 pick instead of zach wilson.

on the other hand, I don't really believe in tanking "purposely" I think you go out and play the games. Our worst case scenario is Zappe plays us out of a top 2 pick by having a winning record in a schedule against the chiefs, bills, denver, jets. if thats our worst case then it means we may have an answer on a starter for next year...and we just draft harrison or a top WR.

I agree with this totally. I believe if Purdy was here and Mac there we might be seeing very different outcomes for them as individual players. This is definitely a nurture over nature scenario.

 

[lancerman]

i'm also not sure Purdy would be who he is if say he got drafted to New England instead of San Francisco. if you gave him 3 OC's in 3 years, one year being a DC and juju/parker as his top receivers.

maybe he would rise above it. but its okay to admit right now this isn't the best situation for a QB to develop in. its why i'm scared for whomever we draft unless we vastly improve the offensive talent.

as far as the threads premise. I'm kind of torn. on one hand look at the Jets. lost out on Trevor lawrence because they won a meaningless game at the end of the season. sure Jets fans celebrated that week like we did with the steelers win. but I bet they wish they got that #1 pick instead of zach wilson.

on the other hand, I don't really believe in tanking "purposely" I think you go out and play the games. Our worst case scenario is Zappe plays us out of a top 2 pick by having a winning record in a schedule against the chiefs, bills, denver, jets. if thats our worst case then it means we may have an answer on a starter for next year...and we just draft harrison or a top WR.

Purdy hands the ball off to CMC. He also gets to throw to CMC, Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle. He has a better defense to keep his teams honest as well. And their special teams isn't as bad as ours. Oh and he's consistently had a well renowned offensive minded HC. People need to stop pretending in general that you can even begin to compare what Purdy looks like here vs his current situation.

Mac and Zappe would both be better there. They probably won't be anywhere near what Purdy is, but they would undoubtedly be FAR better in that situation than this one.