Moss & Stallworth together on the field's impact

[sebman2112]

I totally agree. For Stallworth and Moss to be on the field together at the same time all the time, we would have to move to more of a vertical offense. I don't think that plays into Brady's strengths and you build your offense around The Franchise.

If you watch Moss' routes throughout his career (even on short passes), he runs vanilla straight line vertical routes. He doesn't run a lot of hooks, slants, screens, etc.

Brady is a methodical QB who beats defenses with his head and not his arm. The Pats run complicated routes and have a lot of presnap adjustments to help confuse defenses. I don't think Brady is going to become a gunslinger which is the type of QB who works best (for the most part) in a vertical offense. Bledsoe was a gunslinger. And I don't mean a guy who hucks it down the field 30 plus yards all the time.

I also think either Welker, Gaffney, or Caldwell will be out there a lot with either Moss or Stallworth in a two WR set. The Pats will probably play a lot more three and four WR sets because of the additions, but I am not sure that Moss will be a full-time starter. I think Stallworth is more likely because he is a better route runner and more versatile.

As you kind of mentioned, Stallworth isn't simply a deep threat. He has quick twitch speed, and he can run good routes. If NE could get Jackson healthy it would be nice because he will go over the middle, and is far from being just a deep threat. Jackson got a lot of work in the slot during his senior season, when he had 88 catches.

 

[sebman2112]

Question for The Baron -- Stallworth ran a 4.19 in his combine? Are you sure of that number. It's the fastest I've ever seen or heard of, and while I knew Donte was quick, I didn't realize that he was rocket-assisted.

Yes, Donte Stallworth has run a 4.19 - 40. He's also run other 40's in the 4.24 range. That number might seem unreal to you, but that's because you're probably only seeing the 40's of football player's. Olympic runners can run 4.1 - 40's.

 

[Rob0729]

As you kind of mentioned, Stallworth isn't simply a deep threat. He has quick twitch speed, and he can run good routes. If NE could get Jackson healthy it would be nice because he will go over the middle, and is far from being just a deep threat. Jackson got a lot of work in the slot during his senior season, when he had 88 catches.

I think one of the reasons Jackson failed so badly last year was because they made him a deep threat. He should have been the guy going over the middle for us last year. I think because we didn't have a deep threat, he was the closest thing to it and he got a lot of the dep calls.

I do agree that Stallworth can fit into our system and run more than the vertical routes. I am not as confident about Moss. I think Stallworth can run those screens, quick outs, and slants that the Pats love to run. I don't think Moss is built to run some of those routes. Bigger receivers typically have difficulties running short routes that require quick change of direction.

 

[zippo59]

I think one of the reasons Jackson failed so badly last year was because they made him a deep threat. He should have been the guy going over the middle for us last year. I think because we didn't have a deep threat, he was the closest thing to it and he got a lot of the dep calls.

I do agree that Stallworth can fit into our system and run more than the vertical routes. I am not as confident about Moss. I think Stallworth can run those screens, quick outs, and slants that the Pats love to run. I don't think Moss is built to run some of those routes. Bigger receivers typically have difficulties running short routes that require quick change of direction.

Do you really think the media influenced how Belichick used Jackson?

 

[Rob0729]

Do you really think the media influenced how Belichick used Jackson?

Absolutely not. When did I say that? I think what influenced Belichick how to use Jackson last year was what he had for WRs on the roster. Jackson was the fastest WR and we had no other WR who could be a legitimate deep threat so he became our deep threat.

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

Jackson failed bc the Pats require their WR to think and react/adjust their routes to the defense.

We've all heard about the difficulty of the WR system here.
On most teams a WR is told to run a 9... or any other #, say a 1.
Each # corresponds to 1 pattern.

In this sytem, a WR is told to run a 1 if this happens, a 9 if this happens, or a 4 if that happens.
What makes it more difficult that is that these keys are sometimes based on what another player's adjustment is...
IE a tight end pulls the safety one way which results in the WR needing to go somewhere else.

Jackson failed bc he never fully picked up this concept and was injured.

 

[zippo59]

Absolutely not. When did I say that? I think what influenced Belichick how to use Jackson last year was what he had for WRs on the roster. Jackson was the fastest WR and we had no other WR who could be a legitimate deep threat so he became our deep threat.

LOL that is so weird I could have sworn I read something from you about the media. Haha I guess I'm imagining things. My bad.

 

[Mainefan]

Baron (and Sebman), thanks for the 4.19 comments. Man, with Jackson also in the mix, we got three tall really fast receivers. Also Watson, Welker and Faulk. Damn, Brady ought to break records this year.

 

[Isaac]

I do hope that their presence cuts down on the number of safety blitzes.

 

[Alk]

The only problem with all of this deepball talk is the fact that Brady couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from over 20 yds.

 

[zippo59]

The only problem with all of this deepball talk is the fact that Brady couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from over 20 yds.

This is completely untrue.

 

[primetime]

Olympic runners can run 4.1 - 40's.

World class sprinters run 40s in the 4.3-4.4 range (an analysis of Olympic-winning 100m dash sprinters showed splits from 4.29-4.38), but they lose .1-.2 because the timing begins at the sound of the gun, versus in NFL testing when the timing is triggered by movement off the blocks.

So, yes, the most elite sprinters in the world could run in the 4.1 area, or possibly closer to 4-even in an NFL combine setting. With a full running start, a guy like Carl Lewis probably could have ran 40 yards closer to 3 seconds at his peak.

 

[patsfan55]

I think you misunderstand the Patriots system.

Moss and Stallworth will platoon as the deep receiver.

There wil be the slot receiver, were Bbrown and Welker platoon.

Then there will be the possesion short receiver where Caldwell and Gaffney compete.

Chad Jackson, heals and learns the deep receiver role and gets a few reps for a breakout in 2008. The others fill the PS.

ive been wondering this
its def always been like that, which is why i said once we got stallworth there was nowhere to put moss

but, when we go five wide, u hafta expect to see stallworth and moss on the field at the same time

we can say what we know or think they will do, but we wont know for sure til september, weve never had two deep threats that i can remember, or at least two legitimate deep threats

 

[Fixit]

I predict that they'll be on the field together more than a little.

 

[Alk]

This is completely untrue.

Really? Then why is it whenever there is a guy open deep he is either overthrown or underthrown. Every QB has a weakness and the deepball is Brady's. That's fine by me, I would much rather have a qb that excelled in the short and intermediate range.

 

[patsfan55]

I think one of the reasons Jackson failed so badly last year was because they made him a deep threat. He should have been the guy going over the middle for us last year. I think because we didn't have a deep threat, he was the closest thing to it and he got a lot of the dep calls.

I do agree that Stallworth can fit into our system and run more than the vertical routes. I am not as confident about Moss. I think Stallworth can run those screens, quick outs, and slants that the Pats love to run. I don't think Moss is built to run some of those routes. Bigger receivers typically have difficulties running short routes that require quick change of direction.

i felt the same way bout chad jack
his sr yr he wasnt used at all as a deep threat
thing was, we didnt have anyone else to do it, i felt like he kinda got screwed cuz of it

 

[Fixit]

The only problem with all of this deepball talk is the fact that Brady couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from over 20 yds.

Oh, and this is insanity.

 

[Fixit]

Really? Then why is it whenever there is a guy open deep he is either overthrown or underthrown.

Receivers he doesn't know all that well? He was hooking up with Caldwell pretty well by the end of the season. Gaffney was a midseason pickup. And then there was...uh...

 

[zippo59]

Really? Then why is it whenever there is a guy open deep he is either overthrown or underthrown. Every QB has a weakness and the deepball is Brady's. That's fine by me, I would much rather have a qb that excelled in the short and intermediate range.

Look up the stats. Brady has been just as successful at completing deep balls as anyone. This is has been a myth that I thought was shattered after the 2004 and 2005 seasons but I guess not. And he even worked on it a lot last offseason but didn't have very many opportunities to use it because of the wide receivers we had.

 

[lapatsfan]

The impact of Stallworth and Moss will be..... lots of touchdowns!!!!!

Just imagine being a defensive coordinator trying to defend against Brady, Maroney, Watson, Stallworth, Moss and Welker. Muahahahahahaha