Merry Christmas to my PatsFans brothers and sisters!

[Tunescribe]

Indeed. Even in Israel, it can snow in wintertime and the temps do get down to freezing. Sheperds are NOT out in their fields then, and lambs don't arrive until spring. So likely it was around April of 4 or 6 BC.

That's the key point -- Christ's springtime birth was confirmed by what the shepherds were doing. "Watching over their flocks at night" referred to protecting newborn lambs from predators.

 

[oldrover]

That's the key point -- Christ's springtime birth was confirmed by what the shepherds were doing. "Watching over their flocks at night" referred to protecting newborn lambs from predators.

Yes, Christ Was Really Born on December 25: Here's a Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas - Taylor Marshall

 

[Tunescribe]

Yes, Christ Was Really Born on December 25: Here's a Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas - Taylor Marshall

Tons of contrived conjecture there. I think it makes a lot more sense that Christmas is really a spin-off from pagan solar festivals and that early Christians deliberately chose these dates to encourage the spread of Christmas and Christianity throughout the Roman world: If Christmas looked like a pagan holiday, more pagans would be open to both the holiday and the God whose birth it celebrated. It's just too coincidental that Christmas occurs about the same time as the winter solstice.

 

[Gwedd]

Tons of contrived conjecture there. I think it makes a lot more sense that Christmas is really a spin-off from pagan solar festivals and that early Christians deliberately chose these dates to encourage the spread of Christmas and Christianity throughout the Roman world: If Christmas looked like a pagan holiday, more pagans would be open to both the holiday and the God whose birth it celebrated. It's just too coincidental that Christmas occurs about the same time as the winter solstice.

This is truth. Once Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome, then matching up holidays was both a cultural and political expedient. Both Sol Invictus and the Cult of Mithras had "birthday" celebrations in late December, and Saturnalia, the 12-day celebration of Saturn, led right up to those.

Placating the hoi paloi as well as the now demoted Pagan priests and celebrants was VERY important to Rome who, more than anything else, demanded consistency and obedience to both the law and tradition(s).

 

[Joker]

what Gwedd said...and BTW, even though Fencer THINKS I'm an old drunk, I DO have a field of expertise I rarely share anywhere on the net and that is comparative religion. If Sol Invictus, Cult of Mithras or Saturnalia seem like a curveball to you, may I suggest a tome that's been in print for over a century as a sort of encyclopaedia on the subjects.

 

[Gwedd]

what Gwedd said...and BTW, even though Fencer THINKS I'm an old drunk, I DO have a field of expertise I rarely share anywhere on the net and that is comparative religion. If Sol Invictus, Cult of Mithras or Saturnalia seem like a curveball to you, may I suggest a tome that's been in print for over a century as a sort of encyclopaedia on the subjects.

What Joker says. I ended up as a History Major with a Classical Studies minor, but spent most of the past 30 years in some field of Classical Studies, particularly Religious Studies from the Egyptian Mystery Cults up through about the Council of Nicea. Fascinating stuff, that.

 

[Joker]

Sumerian mythology/religion hooked me. I was born in Providence and once lived in an apartment on Benefit St. in Providence in a house where H.P. Lovecraft once resided . Got hooked on the Cthulu Mythos when I was 13/14 and the fascination led me into the more esoteric avenues of comparative religion in my college years. A lot of people who have seen the Exorcist have no idea that the demon, Pazuzu, is actually of Assyrian origin, believing he was a Babylonian/Sumerian spirit instead. Long before I argued football on message boards, I argued ancient religion/beliefs in coffee houses from Somerville to Cambridge to Boston and back to the east side of Providence. Yes, I am a HUGE geek...and proud of it too. Go Pats. Go Nyarlathotep! Go Xastur the Unspeakable!

 

[Gwedd]

Sumerian mythology/religion hooked me. I was born in Providence and once lived in an apartment on Benefit St. in Providence in a house where H.P. Lovecraft once resided . Got hooked on the Cthulu Mythos when I was 13/14 and the fascination led me into the more esoteric avenues of comparative religion in my college years. A lot of people who have seen the Exorcist have no idea that the demon, Pazuzu, is actually of Assyrian origin, believing he was a Babylonian/Sumerian spirit instead. Long before I argued football on message boards, I argued ancient religion/beliefs in coffee houses from Somerville to Cambridge to Boston and back to the east side of Providence. Yes, I am a HUGE geek...and proud of it too. Go Pats. Go Nyarlathotep! Go Xastur the Unspeakable!

Joker,

I found this site on Sumerian Literature a couple years ago. I plead Geek too. Sigh. I remember many years back when Ifirst got ahold of a copy of "The Heroes of Uruk", and THAT piqued my interest fromabout the time I was 10 or so.

The Great Fatted Bull

 

[RedSleevesPinkStripes]

Late Merry Christmas to all PF

Mine went pretty well, family time, then visited my grandmother at the hospital after her back surgery, then saw Star Wars (excellent) and finished up with SW Battlefront (also excellent)

 

[Tunescribe]

Sumerian mythology/religion hooked me. I was born in Providence and once lived in an apartment on Benefit St. in Providence in a house where H.P. Lovecraft once resided . Got hooked on the Cthulu Mythos when I was 13/14 and the fascination led me into the more esoteric avenues of comparative religion in my college years. A lot of people who have seen the Exorcist have no idea that the demon, Pazuzu, is actually of Assyrian origin, believing he was a Babylonian/Sumerian spirit instead. Long before I argued football on message boards, I argued ancient religion/beliefs in coffee houses from Somerville to Cambridge to Boston and back to the east side of Providence. Yes, I am a HUGE geek...and proud of it too. Go Pats. Go Nyarlathotep! Go Xastur the Unspeakable!

Joker, I found this site on Sumerian Literature a couple years ago. I plead Geek too. Sigh. I remember many years back when Ifirst got ahold of a copy of "The Heroes of Uruk", and THAT piqued my interest fromabout the time I was 10 or so. The Great Fatted Bull

You guys get back to me when you want to discuss the unified field-based theory of quantum physics as scientific quantification of God's existence.

 

[Gwedd]

You guys get back to me when you want to discuss the unified field-based theory of quantum physics as scientific quantification of God's existence.

Sounds good to me. Bring a bottle of good whiskey and we can sit down and tie it all together.