McGinist, Givens, Branch ETC.

[Jacky Roberts]

Ah, yes, so I take it he didn't kick on Sunday?

All of these pundits who keep bemoaning THAT particular loss need a little reality check. I mean, the AV of a few years ago is a big loss for our team, for sure, but how in the world would Groin! Injured! Adam be helpful for our team at all sitting on the sidelines?

Haven't seen this posted, but did anyone see Gramatica's lame attempt to tackle that Jet who returned the kick for a TD? Knowing how well Vinatieri tackles, no doubt he tackles that guy and NY doesn't get a TD.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I don't have a huge problem w/most of the guys on that list as far as them no longer being w/us. For various reasons, I think the FO did the right thing in letting them go. However, I would take Branch back in a heartbeat! I remember seeing the 60 Minutes interview w/Brady when they showed Brady & Branch talking about how they connect on the field to make plays happen. I don't agree with Branch holding out while under contract, but this loss is a bit harder to swallow for me for so many reasons.

You make a fair point. Who knows, maybe with Seattle's RB going down, their record is not as good as it would have otherwise been. Get that 1st pick into a more favorable position. Ah, to dream.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Ah, yes, so I take it he didn't kick on Sunday?

All of these pundits who keep bemoaning THAT particular loss need a little reality check. I mean, the AV of a few years ago is a big loss for our team, for sure, but how in the world would Groin! Injured! Adam be helpful for our team at all sitting on the sidelines?

Let's not jinx ourselves as those blocks and misses just can't continue...

Still, even if Gost can't shake his rookie jitters, that doesn't mean AV can't be replaced - nor does it mean Gost can't be replaced if need be either.

AV's one and only value I think we all agree was making the big kick in the high pressure situation - he had an impressive record in this regard and until we're in that situation we don't really know what we have... nor do we know if AV's health or skills would have allowed him to continue his impressive run

It's a judgement call and a crapshoot and I have faith that we made the best choices available to us - but again, I don;t think AV wanted to come back by the time he signed with Indy, so its a bit of a moot point.

 

[Kdo5]

Its great that Seau has 24 tackles and McGinnest has 8, I'm loving it!

 

[SoonerPatriot]

So, we are a quarter of the way through the season.

Let's have a little fun and look at the season stats these great players have thus far (I know not everbody played in all 4 games, but work with me here):

McGinest - 8 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Branch - 5 catches for 80 yards. 0 TDs
Givens - 8 catches for 104 yards. 0 TDs
Andre Davis - 2 ST tackles. 0 catches for 0 yards.
Tim Dwight - 4 catches for 36 yards. 0 TDs
Matt Chatham - 3 tackles. 4 assists.

How could the Patriots let such incredible talent go? What are they thinking? Why don't they pay them the money for which they are asking? The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Nice skewed logic on Branch and Givens. You left out the fact Givens has one of the worst QBs in the league throwing to him and is on probably the second worst team in the league period. Minor detail, I know.

Branch has played 2 games with the Seahawks. Probably still trying to pick up the offense. If that's a legit excuse for the Chad Jackson apologists it would also apply to Branch.

I don't think anyone was losing any sleep over Dwight, Chatham and Davis flying the coop.

 

[kptmorgan04]

Nice skewed logic on Branch and Givens. You left out the fact Givens has one of the worst QBs in the league throwing to him and is on probably the second worst team in the league period. Minor detail, I know.

Branch has played 2 games with the Seahawks. Probably still trying to pick up the offense. If that's a legit excuse for the Chad Jackson apologists it would also apply to Branch.

I don't think anyone was losing any sleep over Dwight, Chatham and Davis flying the coop.

I dont think that the Branch/chad jackson learning the offense is the right comparision, Brahcn/Gaberiel would be the correct one as C. Jackson is a rookie.

I first agree with all releases that the Pats have made thus far this season with the slight exception of the WR who is dead to me... I wish things would have been worked out earlier, but it was obvious once it started getting ugly that things werent going to work out with the PAts and I think that they robbed seattle of their first round pick. I belive that the one who is dead to me had first round value to the Pats but to another team, especially one which already has other WR's he will not serve nearly as much value. I could be wrong, but I think in a year or two, this will look like a steal for the Pats.

I think that the thing is that the Patriots bring players in and coach them up well to fit their system and it is the other front offices around the league making the mistake of not realizing that and thinking that they will be getting more out of the players than the pats did.

and can you imagine what the talk shows etc would be saying if Adam V were still with the Pats and he was hurt.... it would be that the pats are aging and not getting younger and paying too much for old production!

 

[BradyManny]

Branch has played 2 games with the Seahawks. Probably still trying to pick up the offense. If that's a legit excuse for the Chad Jackson apologists it would also apply to Branch.

Chad Jackson is a rookie, Deion Branch is not. There is no comparison. It's been established in many threads how difficult it is for WR rookies to come in and produce, yet some people are hell bent on whining about Chad Jackson. As the poster above me mentioned, the Gabriel-Branch comparison makes a lot more sense.

If you've watched either of the last two Seahawks games, you'd see they aren't limiting Deion's plays at all, and in fact, he's already a #1 or #2 option, but as the Seahawks have 4 viable wideouts and use them all, naturally Deion's #s aren't going to be amazing. All the more reason it was stupid for Seattle to spend that kind of $ and waste a first rounder on him. But that's their perogative.

 

[PonyExpress]

Santana Moss caught 2 passes his whole rookie year. Jackson just needs some time...

 

[fnordcircle]

If you think those guys would have those stats if they were still with the Patriots you're deluding yourself.

If they all stayed they'd likely be having years on par or better than what they had last year because of our increased ability to run the ball.

I understand that the team assigns value to each player and won't negotiate beyond that value, it's the price of success and staying competitive and I'm fine with that, but it's silly to hold David Givens or McGinest accountable for being on really bad teams.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Nice skewed logic on Branch and Givens. You left out the fact Givens has one of the worst QBs in the league throwing to him and is on probably the second worst team in the league period. Minor detail, I know.

Branch has played 2 games with the Seahawks. Probably still trying to pick up the offense. If that's a legit excuse for the Chad Jackson apologists it would also apply to Branch.

I don't think anyone was losing any sleep over Dwight, Chatham and Davis flying the coop.

I didn't leave out squat genius. It's my post. I put in it what I wanted to put in it, for fun. Like I said, work with me here. There's always one out there that can't read. I was just about to rip you a new one, but I see BradyManny beat me to it. Oh, and if you haven't heard the so called experts mentioning Dwight and Davis amongst others, when talking about the Patriots letting "key" players go, you haven't been paying attention. Are they key players? NO! That's the point. Are you Felger or Borges?

 

[Bella*chick]

If you think those guys would have those stats if they were still with the Patriots you're deluding yourself.

If they all stayed they'd likely be having years on par or better than what they had last year because of our increased ability to run the ball.

I understand that the team assigns value to each player and won't negotiate beyond that value, it's the price of success and staying competitive and I'm fine with that, but it's silly to hold David Givens or McGinest accountable for being on really bad teams.

For me, it's not so much the player I am scoffing at, but the organizations which threw them tons of money to be "difference makers". After all, isn't that what our FO is given such grief for? For refusing to overpay for players? To me, the Titans and the Seahawks especially look very silly to pay so much (and give up a first rounder, in Seattle's case) for what has been produced so far.

 

[BradyManny]

Santana Moss caught 2 passes his whole rookie year. Jackson just needs some time...

Good point, and Moss only played 5 games his rookie year - also, he only caught 30 the ensuing year.

I think Chad Jackson is still going to have to emerge a lot faster than that simply out of necessity, but nonetheless, 4 catches and a TD through 2 games is a great start for a rookie WR, so expectations have got to be curbed to understand that he is just that, a rookie wideout.

 

[3 to be 4]

look at it this way, Gabriel and Caldwell have as many receptions as Branch and Givens (although I loved both those guys being on the team), plus they've saved a bunch of money, have Chad Jackson waiting in the wings, and a #1 pick for 2007. I think Belichick and Pioli know what they are doing.

 

[Bostonian1962]

For me, it's not so much the player I am scoffing at, but the organizations which threw them tons of money to be "difference makers". After all, isn't that what our FO is given such grief for? For refusing to overpay for players? To me, the Titans and the Seahawks especially look very silly to pay so much (and give up a first rounder, in Seattle's case) for what has been produced so far.

Bingo, we have bingo. That continues to be the point. I remember back when Detroit gave Woody $5M per year, there were some that ripped the Pats for letting their best offensive lineman go. You can't pay this kind of crazy money to players.

Woody has really helped turn that Detroit team around. And look at that great Jets team Ty Law lead to all those wins last year. If Givens stats transfer out to a whole season, he'll have a nice 30 something catches, and his team could be one of the five worst teams in the league. Oh, how did Buffalo like paying Milloy all that money? What kind of winning team did he help them build? Sorry Willie Mac, we love you and all, and we're happy you got the huge $$ with Cleveland, but your team is going to lose more games than it wins.

If BB and Pioli change their ways, and start paying certain players "stupid money", they'll be like all the rest, but that won't happen. I see it as smart. And, unless you are Borges or Felger, you probably do too.

 

[Pats726]

For me, it's not so much the player I am scoffing at, but the organizations which threw them tons of money to be "difference makers". After all, isn't that what our FO is given such grief for? For refusing to overpay for players? To me, the Titans and the Seahawks especially look very silly to pay so much (and give up a first rounder, in Seattle's case) for what has been produced so far.

I agree...it would have been NICE to have both, but I agree..it does make them look silly..when their numbers are NOT even as big as their replacements here..Granted there are learning curves on both sides..given the money overpayed..what was given up in the Seattle case..it does make them look silly. If the numbers were larger and they were a difference maker..yes..one might praise the signings..but now, it doesn't look smart at all.

 

[Willie55]

From the Boston Herald:

Givens to sit out

Titans receiver David Givens will miss Sunday’s game with the Colts because of an injured thumb. The Titans listed Givens as out on the injury report along with TE Erron Kinney and guard Zach Piller

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I hope our comp pick is based more on Givens' contract than his salary - he's in danger of getting out produced by Chad Jackson right now and Jackson has barely played yet.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

I didn't leave out squat genius. It's my post. I put in it what I wanted to put in it, for fun. Like I said, work with me here. There's always one out there that can't read. I was just about to rip you a new one, but I see BradyManny beat me to it. Oh, and if you haven't heard the so called experts mentioning Dwight and Davis amongst others, when talking about the Patriots letting "key" players go, you haven't been paying attention. Are they key players? NO! That's the point. Are you Felger or Borges?

You said nothing about Givens playing for one of the worst teams in the leauge withe one of the worst QB situations in the league, LIAR.

Apparently you failed basic reading comprehension. My point was that nobody cared about losing Dwight or Chatham -- period. People bemoaned the loss of AV and Willie but NOBODY and I mean NOBODY said an f'ng word about Chatham and Dwight going. Only to a moron like you would consider those be considered "key" players. Or was it all in an effort o prove the lame, flawed premise of your original post?

Ahhh gotta love the continued influx of idiots on the board. Maybe BelichickFan is onto something.