McClellin could return to practice this week.

[NE-VT]

So you say. But catching 2 passes all day and purportedly being open 2 other times doesn't come close to rising above the JAG level that everything else about him says.

Football outsiders has Sanu as the 44th best WR through week 6 based on their statistical analytics. Coincidently, he was also the 44th best in 2016. Based on that he would be a solid #2 option. Not sure if that is worthy of the term or JAG or not.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2017

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2016

PFF ranks him as #19 based on their film ranking system.

Mohamed Sanu | Atlanta Falcons SRWR | NFL and PFF stats | Pro Football Focus

I have my doubts about PFF, and I am a bit more agnostic to the value of the analytics from footballoutsiders. However, I do think that Sanu's JAG-worthiness is more of an open question than you implied in your argument with @Wheelman; many people believe he is above replacement level.

 

[Ring 6]

Football outsiders has Sanu as the 44th best WR through week 6 based on their statistical analytics. Coincidently, he was also the 44th best in 2016. Based on that he would be a solid #2 option. Not sure if that is worthy of the term or JAG or not.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2017

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2016

PFF ranks him as #19 based on their film ranking system.

Mohamed Sanu | Atlanta Falcons SRWR | NFL and PFF stats | Pro Football Focus

I have my doubts about PFF, and I am a bit more agnostic to the value of the analytics from footballoutsiders. However, I do think that Sanu's JAG-worthiness is more of an open question than you implied in your argument with @Wheelman; many people believe he is above replacement level.

A guy who cannot muster 60 catches in a season and averages less than 12 ypc is not the 44th best WR in the league.(especially in a high powered offense) He may end up 44th by attrition as many better players get injured.

In 2016, again on the best offense and passing offense in the league as the #2 WR, playing 72% of the snaps (more than Julio) Sanu's PRODUCTION was 57th in receptions in the league, 64th in receiving yards, tied from 48-83 in TDs, tied from 92-107 in 20+ plays, and tied for 68-143 in 40+ plays.
For a guy who starts and plays 72% of the snaps on the #1 offense in the NFL these are pathetic numbers.
Put another way, if your starting WR cannot catch 60 passes and only averages 11.5 per catch, with few big plays, you are very disappointed in him and looking to find someone better. ie JAG

Oh, and PFF ranking him 19th among WRs is a great example of why PFF is trash and knows nothing about football.

 

[supafly]

Football outsiders has Sanu as the 44th best WR through week 6 based on their statistical analytics. Coincidently, he was also the 44th best in 2016. Based on that he would be a solid #2 option. Not sure if that is worthy of the term or JAG or not.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2017

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2016

PFF ranks him as #19 based on their film ranking system.

Mohamed Sanu | Atlanta Falcons SRWR | NFL and PFF stats | Pro Football Focus

I have my doubts about PFF, and I am a bit more agnostic to the value of the analytics from footballoutsiders. However, I do think that Sanu's JAG-worthiness is more of an open question than you implied in your argument with @Wheelman; many people believe he is above replacement level.

He seemed to do fairly well in his first year there last season, hauling in 59 receptions. I think he's a physical matchup, particularly with the CBs that he will be up against on Sunday.

In the end, it doesn't really matter what our opinions on his talents are, because we've seen much truer definitions of a "JAG" succeed against our defense over the years. He poses a threat, and that's what the defense will be keyed in on. You can bet that they respect his ability, so that's what matters.

 

[Ring 6]

Football outsiders has Sanu as the 44th best WR through week 6 based on their statistical analytics. Coincidently, he was also the 44th best in 2016. Based on that he would be a solid #2 option. Not sure if that is worthy of the term or JAG or not.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2017

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2016

PFF ranks him as #19 based on their film ranking system.

Mohamed Sanu | Atlanta Falcons SRWR | NFL and PFF stats | Pro Football Focus

I have my doubts about PFF, and I am a bit more agnostic to the value of the analytics from footballoutsiders. However, I do think that Sanu's JAG-worthiness is more of an open question than you implied in your argument with @Wheelman; many people believe he is above replacement level.

I just saw your last paragraph.
Isn't a WR about production? Does it really matter what 'people think'?
Would you be happy with his production as a starting WR playing 72% of the snaps on your team? Remember he has a 5+ year track record now and has never produced. As i listed earlier he has less than 60 receiving yards in 17 of the 22 games he has played for Atlanta and never hit 100. As they say the proof is in the pudding and WRs proof is in production.

 

[Ring 6]

He seemed to do fairly well in his first year there last season, hauling in 59 receptions. I think he's a physical matchup, particularly with the CBs that he will be up against on Sunday.

In the end, it doesn't really matter what our opinions on his talents are, because we've seen much truer definitions of a "JAG" succeed against our defense over the years. He poses a threat, and that's what the defense will be keyed in on. You can bet that they respect his ability, so that's what matters.

Do you seriously think 59 receptions is ggod?
For a WR2 playing 72% of the snaps, its awful. Especially on the #1 offense in the league.

 

[supafly]

Do you seriously think 59 receptions is ggod?
For a WR2 playing 72% of the snaps, its awful. Especially on the #1 offense in the league.

Seems about right to me.

WR1--Julio Jones--83 receptions

WR2--Mohammad Sanu--59 receptions

 

[NE-VT]

Seems about right to me.

WR1--Julio Jones--83 receptions

WR2--Mohammad Sanu--59 receptions

It is a bit low compared to other good offenses. For example:

Jordy Nelson --97

Davante Adams--75

Randall Cobb--60

 

[Deus Irae]

It is a bit low compared to other good offenses. For example:

Jordy Nelson --97

Davante Adams--75

Randall Cobb--60

• Packers attempted about 80 more passes (620:537)
• Adams was targeted a full 40 times more than Sanu, 121 to 81
• Nelson was targeted 23 more times than Jones, 152 to 129
• Falcons offense more RB centered in passing game (104 attempts to 88 by G.B., despite the 80 fewer overall throws)

Given that, Sanu's numbers would seem to match up fine with where Adams' numbers would have translated to in the Falcons system.

 

[NE-VT]

A guy who cannot muster 60 catches in a season and averages less than 12 ypc is not the 44th best WR in the league.(especially in a high powered offense) He may end up 44th by attrition as many better players get injured.

In 2016, again on the best offense and passing offense in the league as the #2 WR, playing 72% of the snaps (more than Julio) Sanu's PRODUCTION was 57th in receptions in the league, 64th in receiving yards, tied from 48-83 in TDs, tied from 92-107 in 20+ plays, and tied for 68-143 in 40+ plays.
For a guy who starts and plays 72% of the snaps on the #1 offense in the NFL these are pathetic numbers.
Put another way, if your starting WR cannot catch 60 passes and only averages 11.5 per catch, with few big plays, you are very disappointed in him and looking to find someone better. ie JAG

Oh, and PFF ranking him 19th among WRs is a great example of why PFF is trash and knows nothing about football.

You are making a strong case regarding Sanu. His production does seem a bit lacking given the considerations you mention. I honestly never had a strong feeling either way about it, I just wanted to share info I thought was relevant to the conversation.

Would you be willing to entertain a hypothetical so I can better understand what you mean by JAG in the context of receivers?

Suppose Sanu* is truly the 44th most productive receiver. In this NFL* he plays in, he always faces isolated man coverage, as the safeties are always doubling Jones*, or in some coverage responsibility that does not effect his routes. I.e. because of the threats on the defense elsewhere, he relatively little defensive attention.

Do you think Sanu* would be JAG-worthy for only being #44 while facing that much isolated man? I agree that an average NFL #2 receiver should be able to put similar numbers to Sanu* if given that same context. In that sense, Sanu* seems replacement level. But I don't think I would call Sanu* a JAG. I am not sure you could just bring in some UDFA and expect him to beat solo man coverage enough to get to #44.

 

[Mack Herron]

So, who then is the 53 casualty to make room?

Langi to NFI would seem an obvious possibility. Others?

1. Langi
2. Harris

 

[luuked]

McClellin sucks and isn't going to help this defense at all.

Has barely one full practice in. That is definitely the time to already start whining about players.

 

[Ring 6]

• Packers attempted about 80 more passes (620:537)
• Adams was targeted a full 40 times more than Sanu, 121 to 81
• Nelson was targeted 23 more times than Jones, 152 to 129
• Falcons offense more RB centered in passing game (104 attempts to 88 by G.B., despite the 80 fewer overall throws)

Given that, Sanu's numbers would seem to match up fine with where Adams' numbers would have translated to in the Falcons system.

No.
Adams had 997 yards and 12 Tds
Sanu had 653 and 4.
That is more than 50% more yards and 200% more TDs. Adams numbers are awesome for a 2 sanu's are less than mediocre.

This is our of Atlanta passing for 4960 yards and 38 Tds and Green Bay 4445 and 40 TDs. Attempts don't tell the story. Adams as #2 had about 23% of his teams yards and 30% of TDs while sanu had about 13 and 10.




You are also misusing targets. A starting WR getting fewer targets means he isn't getting open.

 

[Ring 6]

You are making a strong case regarding Sanu. His production does seem a bit lacking given the considerations you mention. I honestly never had a strong feeling either way about it, I just wanted to share info I thought was relevant to the conversation.

Would you be willing to entertain a hypothetical so I can better understand what you mean by JAG in the context of receivers?

Suppose Sanu* is truly the 44th most productive receiver. In this NFL* he plays in, he always faces isolated man coverage, as the safeties are always doubling Jones*, or in some coverage responsibility that does not effect his routes. I.e. because of the threats on the defense elsewhere, he relatively little defensive attention.

Do you think Sanu* would be JAG-worthy for only being #44 while facing that much isolated man? I agree that an average NFL #2 receiver should be able to put similar numbers to Sanu* if given that same context. In that sense, Sanu* seems replacement level. But I don't think I would call Sanu* a JAG. I am not sure you could just bring in some UDFA and expect him to beat solo man coverage enough to get to #44.

When I say he is a JAG starting WR I am saying he is not a good starter. He is at the bottom of the barrel for starting WRs. His production is a disappointment and his team would surely want to upgrade him. He is only starting because there isn't a better option. I would also note that just being given the #2 role and getting that many snaps pretty much assures that much production out of any competent receiver. I would say you could plug 100 or more NFL WRs into his spot and get the same or better results.

 

[Kontradiction]

No.
Adams had 997 yards and 12 Tds
Sanu had 653 and 4.
That is more than 50% more yards and 200% more TDs. Adams numbers are awesome for a 2 sanu's are less than mediocre.

This is our of Atlanta passing for 4960 yards and 38 Tds and Green Bay 4445 and 40 TDs. Attempts don't tell the story. Adams as #2 had about 23% of his teams yards and 30% of TDs while sanu had about 13 and 10.




You are also misusing targets. A starting WR getting fewer targets means he isn't getting open.

Interesting. Cooks has less targets this year than he did through six games last year. So, in your opinion, that means that he isn't getting open as much in New England's offense in 2017 as he was in New Orleans' offense in 2016?

 

[Ring 6]

Interesting. Cooks has less targets this year than he did through six games last year. So, in your opinion, that means that he isn't getting open as much in New England's offense in 2017 as he was in New Orleans' offense in 2016?

Yeah I would say that since this year he is running more deeper slower developing routes and last year he ran more quick underneath stuff.

I would inagine adjusting to a new QB would also be a factor.
But last year he had 117 targets in 16 games or 7.3 and this year he has 41 in 6 or 6.8 so I wouldn't worry.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah I would say that since this year he is running more deeper slower developing routes and last year he ran more quick underneath stuff.

I would inagine adjusting to a new QB would also be a factor.
But last year he had 117 targets in 16 games or 7.3 and this year he has 41 in 6 or 6.8 so I wouldn't worry.

That’s what I was getting at. There are other factors for fewer targets than simply “he isn’t getting open”.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s what I was getting at. There are other factors for fewer targets than simply “he isn’t getting open”.

But you can't say A is as good a receiver as B because he has 60% as many targets and 60% as many catches in the same number of snaps.
Targets are earned and getting targeted is an indication of the ability of the receiver to get open.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s what I was getting at. There are other factors for fewer targets than simply “he isn’t getting open”.

Do you honestly think 59/653/4 production means you are just as good as 75/997/12 because you randomly got targeted less?
The bigger numbers come from the ability to get open.

Sanu has been that same guy his whole career.

 

[Kontradiction]

But you can't say A is as good a receiver as B because he has 60% as many targets and 60% as many catches in the same number of snaps.
Targets ar earned and getting targeted is an indication of the ability of the receiver to get open.

The first sentence is a straw man. I never compared the two. After that? You’ve already invalidated your own argument by admitting there are other factors for a drop or lack of targets. I only needed to push you in that direction by using a Patriot as an example instead of a Falcon.

 

[Ring 6]

The first sentence is a straw man. I never compared the two. After that? You’ve already invalidated your own argument by admitting there are other factors for a drop or lack of targets. I only needed to push you in that direction by using a Patriot as an example instead of a Falcon.

Wrong.
The fact that there is more than one factor dorsnt invalidate the primary factor.
And you example sucked because you compared apples to oranges and the difference of a half a target a game in partial season is insignificant.

But wait are you saying a starting wide receivers ability to get open isn't a primary factor in getting the ball throen to him?

And the first sentence isn't a straw man at all. The post I was responding to when you jumped in specifically used fewer targets as a reason that less production is similar quality of play. It's not