Maroney's banged-up shoulder... [merged]

[Oswlek]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

WRs and RBs have a high bust rate and tend to be riskier picks.

Do you have any actual evidence to back this up?

I don't have to think very hard before I can come up with quite a few DL/LB/DB busts.

There is some risk for every single player on the field. If anything, the draft is the best place to get a RB, for the reasons that you state. Once they reach FA, they have too much milage to be worth the contract.

 

[patsgo]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Yet more proof that Tomase is being deliberate and careful - and that some of us are being a bit unfair and spazzy:


Maroney’s shoulder
Posted by John Tomase at 7:54 am

There’s a story in today’s Herald detailing running back Laurence Maroney’s postseason shoulder surgery. Before leaping to any conclusions (his career’s over! we need to draft another running back!) it’s important to note what we do and don’t know.

What we know: Maroney underwent surgery shortly after the season and what was hoped to be a routine procedure revealed more damage than expected. A league source termed it “fairly significant.” Maroney ended up in a sling and spent time in Foxboro rehabbing thereafter.

What we don’t know: Some crucial details, that we’ll work on bringing you in the next day or two. The first would be which shoulder. Is it his ball-carrying arm (generally his left) or his straight-arming one (generally his right)? The second would be exactly what the surgery repaired. A torn rotator cuff? Dislocation? A bone issue? And then there’s the most important question of all — how long he’ll be sidelined and what carryover effect, if any, there’ll be heading into the season. Best-case scenario, the problem is fixed and he’s ready to go for minicamp. But right now, these are all things we don’t know.

We’ll bring you more as we have it.

sounds like tomase is asking every question in the book, trying to create something maybe out of nothing what we do know1)they let dillon walk

2)they sign a backup type to replace him

3)riess reports hell be at training camp

4)sounds like alot speculation by tomase without the facts

 

[Pat_Nasty]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Look at the Pats 1st round drafts from 2001-2004. Then you'll get my point.

DL is the most critical (outside of QB) to a team's continued success. Wilfork, Seymour, Warren. They are the backbone of the defense.

OLB Pass rushers are critical too. They struck gold with Vrabel, another low-tier FA and they signed two top-tier FA. Plus, BB inherited Willie McGinest.

If they didn't strike gold in the 4th with Samuel, I'll bet they would have drafted a DB somewhere in the 1st in the last 3 drafts. They wanted Marlin Jackson in 2005, but Indy grabbed him. They wanted Bryant McFadden in round 2 in 2005 but Pittsburgh grabbed him. I heard they would have taken Bob Sanders in 2004 round 2 but Indy took him.

I expect the Pats to go DB with at least one of their #1s.

WRs and RBs have a high bust rate and tend to be riskier picks.

Belichick has often said that it's harder to find productive players with the rare combination of size and athleticism that it takes to be a top NFL defensive lineman in the later rounds, so I agree that there is some added utility to taking d-linemen in the 1st round... and seeing as how, when BB arrived, the d-line was a MAJOR area of need, it's not surprising that we've spent so many picks on them.

That said, you can't really read much more than that into our 2001-2004 draft picks, otherwise you'd get the idea that the only positions worth drafting in the 1st rounds are TE and DT.

We never took a DB or LB in the first round in those years -- does this mean that we shouldn't, this year? Heck, we never took anyone who projected to LB before the 7th round in those years, so does this mean that you shouldn't draft DB, LB, WR or RB in the first round?

So basically, we should just continue to load up on linemen and tight ends every year in the first round?

Of course not. Your problem is that you're looking at things only in terms of position -- the draft is all about individual prospects. The Pats didn't pick "a RB" in the 1st round last year, they picked Laurence Maroney. If he were off the board, there's no reason to assume they would have picked DeAngelo Williams or Joseph Addai in that spot -- it's just as likely they would have gone with Jimmy Williams or Winton Justice in that spot.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

sounds like tomase is asking every question in the book, trying to create something maybe out of nothing what we do know1)they let dillon walk

2)they sign a backup type to replace him

3)riess reports hell be at training camp

4)sounds like alot speculation by tomase without the facts

Actually, sound to me like somebody doesn't know the meaning of the work "speculation."

Speculation would be to make conjectures about how the Pats' releasing Dillon and signing Morris says about Maroney's shoulder. Speculation would be to take a guess as to whether he's going to be in camp or not.

What Tomase provided is the "facts" that the surgery took place, that the injury turned out to be more serious than initially thought during the season, and that Maroney is rehabbing it in Foxborough. If it weren't for Tomase's report, we wouldn't know about this at all.

 

[sebman2112]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Actually, sound to me like somebody doesn't know the meaning of the work "speculation."

Speculation would be to make conjectures about how the Pats' releasing Dillon and signing Morris says about Maroney's shoulder. Speculation would be to take a guess as to whether he's going to be in camp or not.

What Tomase provided is the "facts" that the surgery took place, that the injury turned out to be more serious than initially thought during the season, and that Maroney is rehabbing it in Foxborough. If it weren't for Tomase's report, we wouldn't know about this at all.

Nobody said we couldn't speculate

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Belichick has often said that it's harder to find productive players with the rare combination of size and athleticism that it takes to be a top NFL defensive lineman in the later rounds, so I agree that there is some added utility to taking d-linemen in the 1st round... and seeing as how, when BB arrived, the d-line was a MAJOR area of need, it's not surprising that we've spent so many picks on them.

That said, you can't really read much more than that into our 2001-2004 draft picks, otherwise you'd get the idea that the only positions worth drafting in the 1st rounds are TE and DT.

We never took a DB or LB in the first round in those years -- does this mean that we shouldn't, this year? Heck, we never took anyone who projected to LB before the 7th round in those years, so does this mean that you shouldn't draft DB, LB, WR or RB in the first round?

So basically, we should just continue to load up on linemen and tight ends every year in the first round?

Of course not. Your problem is that you're looking at things only in terms of position -- the draft is all about individual prospects. The Pats didn't pick "a RB" in the 1st round last year, they picked Laurence Maroney. If he were off the board, there's no reason to assume they would have picked DeAngelo Williams or Joseph Addai in that spot -- it's just as likely they would have gone with Jimmy Williams or Winton Justice in that spot.

Nice post. I need to learn to be a little less argumentative like this.

 

[Mack Herron]

not to be chicken little, but:

As per Reiss:

Maroney will naturally be limited in the team's offseason program, but the injury isn't expected to threaten his 2007 season.

Missing offseason prep is NG. His performance whenever he returns will obviously be behind schedule. Looks like he will be able to play in Sept, but there is greater interest in insurance. They have some back-ups, but with limited upside. I would look for a RB on day 2.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: not to be chicken little, but:

As per Reiss:



Missing offseason prep is NG. His performance whenever he returns will obviously be behind schedule. Looks like he will be able to play in Sept, but there is greater interest in insurance. They have some back-ups, but with limited upside. I would look for a RB on day 2.

Limited in the off-season performance is namely from contact, and any conditioning that could stunt recovery. He'll be able to participate in walk-thrus and most non-contact drills I would imagine, and that won't be much of a setback at all. The important thing is that he's there, and able to be in sync with the changes in the offense. A player standing behind a drill in minicamp taking in the entire look can learn as much as a back reading it from his position and then running 20 yards downfield through the big hole that's created.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Re: not to be chicken little, but:

Limited in the off-season performance is namely from contact, and any conditioning that could stunt recovery. He'll be able to participate in walk-thrus and most non-contact drills I would imagine, and that won't be much of a setback at all. The important thing is that he's there, and able to be in sync with the changes in the offense. A player standing behind a drill in minicamp taking in the entire look can learn as much as a back reading it from his position and then running 20 yards downfield through the big hole that's created.

The guy has played a full season, I don't think any of the offseason changes will be very significant as it relates to anything he'll miss. The ONLY thing that he might lose out of would be some lifting to build his upper body up some. Other than than . . . a big deal being made out of little (not by MD but by others).

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: not to be chicken little, but:

The guy has played a full season, I don't think any of the offseason changes will be very significant as it relates to anything he'll miss. The ONLY thing that he might lose out of would be some lifting to build his upper body up some. Other than than . . . a big deal being made out of little (not by MD but by others).

Yup. While being a young player still, it's always good to get reps during the summer to continue to evolve in the offense (for LM, learning all of the blitz pickups and blocking schemes is crucial), but the most important thing is just gaining the knowledge. I would be more worried if this was something he had coming out of Minnesota and had to be held back as a rookie. Those are the most vital reps- before season #1- as we all saw with ChadJack, which is debated in about 3 threads a day still it seems.

 

[F0nSY]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Poor new.Will he play the next season?

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Belichick has often said that it's harder to find productive players with the rare combination of size and athleticism that it takes to be a top NFL defensive lineman in the later rounds, so I agree that there is some added utility to taking d-linemen in the 1st round... and seeing as how, when BB arrived, the d-line was a MAJOR area of need, it's not surprising that we've spent so many picks on them.

That said, you can't really read much more than that into our 2001-2004 draft picks, otherwise you'd get the idea that the only positions worth drafting in the 1st rounds are TE and DT.

We never took a DB or LB in the first round in those years -- does this mean that we shouldn't, this year? Heck, we never took anyone who projected to LB before the 7th round in those years, so does this mean that you shouldn't draft DB, LB, WR or RB in the first round?

So basically, we should just continue to load up on linemen and tight ends every year in the first round?

Of course not. Your problem is that you're looking at things only in terms of position -- the draft is all about individual prospects. The Pats didn't pick "a RB" in the 1st round last year, they picked Laurence Maroney. If he were off the board, there's no reason to assume they would have picked DeAngelo Williams or Joseph Addai in that spot -- it's just as likely they would have gone with Jimmy Williams or Winton Justice in that spot.

You won me over with that post. I concede the argument.

BTW, I never mentioned TEs. Graham and Watson have never lived up to their potential as 1st rounders. IMO, Thomas, a 3rd rounder, will be better than both of them, if only the staff gives him a chance. He was invisible after his great performance at Jacksonville. I saw him play in the 2006 Rose Bowl and I was impressed with his ability to get open and making the catch while getting hit.

 

[patsox23]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Shaun Alexander started ONE game his rookie year, and had 64 carries total, and less than half the number of rush yards than Maroney did. Think Seattle should've not counted on him the next several years????

 

[JDP111]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

The moral to this story: never draft RBs in the 1st round.

WRs too.

Better hope David Thomas becomes a great player. He and Ghost are looking like the most productive players from the 2006 draft.

When you blow a #1 and trade up into the 2nd for a bust WR, that's not good.

Always go with defense and OT in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

What? Worst post I've read today. What difference does the position he was drafted make?

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

What? Worst post I've read today. What difference does the position he was drafted make?

Didn't read all the posts I see. No matter. Pat_Nasty won me over with his post. I guess you didn't read that too.

 

[zippo59]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Bottom line for me is I like the Maroney pick. Running back is important. The best offense we have had in the Brady/Belichick era was in 2004 when Dillon had a monster year. And you can't count on teams trading you future Hall of Fame candidates for second picks. I think Maroney is going to have a big year. I'm predicting 1400 yards.

 

[JDP111]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

No, I mean 3 seasons for the avg NFL RB. Lonegvity is the most important requirement for a RB.

So far Maroney couldn't hold up while sharing playing time with Dillon. Now coming off shoulder surgery, you expect him to hold up with a full season workload, against a tougher 2007 sechedule?

3 seasons???? What!?!?!?!? This is football we are talking about. You're arguments are null since you are using an injury as justification for not drafting RB or WR in the first. What about Colvin? He was injured in his second game. So using your "model," it's a bad idea to sign/trade for FA LB's because of the potential for injury. . . . .I don't agree with ANYTHING that you have said in this post AT ALL.:bricks:

 

[JDP111]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Didn't read all the posts I see. No matter. Pat_Nasty won me over with his post. I guess you didn't read that too.

I'm in the process of reading the thread. . . . .:singing:

 

[patsox23]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Graham and Watson have never lived up to their potential as 1st rounders.

Not sure what your problem is with Daniel Graham. He was a very good player for us, certainly worthy of 1st round status. He didn't become ALL WORLD like Gates and Gonzalez, but then, he wasn't asked to fill that role. He was too busy BLOCKING WAY BETTER THAN THEY EVER COULD. There's more to playing TE than catching passes and helping you win your fantasy league.

 

[primetime]

Re: Maroney's banged-up shoulder...

Doesn't Maroney have alot more mileage on him compared to other RB's out of college?? Is that catching up with him now?

I don't think so. He shared carries with Marion Barber for most of his college career.