Mandatory Mini Camp Practice- 6/16

[Family]

So here is my question for you: if Stid and Mac grade out equally at the end of training camp, what’s the downside of starting Stid?

Mac is your future. If Stidham outplays him, ok, but if it's equal why mess with that?

They wouldn't even play Stidham in a meaningless game over Cam

The better question is if Stid and Mac grade out equally at the end of training camp, what’s the downside of starting Mac?

 

[pazrul72]

Mac is your future. If Stidham outplays him, ok, but if it's equal why mess with that?

They wouldn't even play Stidham in a meaningless game over Cam

The better question is if Stid and Mac grade out equally at the end of training camp, what’s the downside of starting Mac?

David Carr is the downside of starting Mac too early. #1 overall draft pick and according to his little brother Derrick a way better athlete and qb. Yet he got sacked so many times he became gun shy and flamed out of the NFL. Look at most of the greatest QBs of all time, they all sat a year first. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, and I could go on. The downside is throwing Joker into too high pressure a situation before he has had time to get up to NFL speed and ruining his development. I am 100% ok with having another “down year” of Stid or Cam if it means long term Mac Jones can reach his full potential. I care way more about the next 15 years then I do 2021.

Now the NFL is changing, and maybe Joker is ready, he certainly is as prepared as an NFL prospect can be after 4 years of Saban, and I trust BB to make that call so if he does have Jones as the week 1 starter I will be cautiously optimistic and rooting hard for him to succeed.

 

[Family]

David Carr is the downside of starting Mac too early. #1 overall draft pick and according to his little brother Derrick a way better athlete and qb. Yet he got sacked so many times he became gun shy and flamed out of the NFL. Look at most of the greatest QBs of all time, they all sat a year first. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, and I could go on. The downside is throwing Joker into too high pressure a situation before he has had time to get up to NFL speed and ruining his development. I am 100% ok with having another “down year” of Stid or Cam if it means long term Mac Jones can reach his full potential. I care way more about the next 15 years then I do 2021.

Now the NFL is changing, and maybe Joker is ready, he certainly is as prepared as an NFL prospect can be after 4 years of Saban, and I trust BB to make that call so if he does have Jones as the week 1 starter I will be cautiously optimistic and rooting hard for him to succeed.

I don't see it this way at all.

David Carr was the first pick of an expansion team with a horrible offensive line. The Patriots are a veteran team and have a solid offensive line, one of the best in the league. No comparison.

Every situation is different. Brees was bad the first two years he actually played, so he obviously wasn't ready. Brady, Mahomes, and Rogers were behind solid veteran QBs (Bledsoe/Alex Smith/Favre), not the likes of another young quarterback who is not in the team's future.

No way will they start Stidham over Jones, if both are equal. How about that move being a confidence killer for Jones? Bill will just go with Cam, no matter what, if Jones can't prove he's a starter. If they're equal, Stidham won't have proven he's a starter either.

Stidham is competing for backup.

 

[Zuma]

Curious if Jones stayed in Foxboro or went home. I haven't heard anything.

EDIT: or the other QB's for that matter

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mac is less likely than Stid to be ready, because of time in the system. And even if they’re on a par with each other starting Stid does a couple of good things. It gives Mac some more seasoning, time to learn before being thrown into the fire, for one. And it enhances Stid’s value when he hits free agency and that returns a higher comp pick.

So here is my question for you: if Stid and Mac grade out equally at the end of training camp, what’s the downside of starting Stid? Other than the consternation it would cause most PatsFans posters that is.

Players need reps. Players need to learn. Players need to fail fast. Offenses need to gel and form an identity.

The sooner you can accelerate Mac's learning process with game action, it'll pay dividends in December.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Mac is less likely than Stid to be ready, because of time in the system. And even if they’re on a par with each other starting Stid does a couple of good things. It gives Mac some more seasoning, time to learn before being thrown into the fire, for one. And it enhances Stid’s value when he hits free agency and that returns a higher comp pick.

So here is my question for you: if Stid and Mac grade out equally at the end of training camp, what’s the downside of starting Stid? Other than the consternation it would cause most PatsFans posters that is.

If they grade equally then go with Mac. Stid will 'look good' meaning make some nice throws while still throwing picks. No thanks.

.

 

[50-yard-line]

If Stidham and Jones seem about equal and Cam gets shipped out, I could easily see BB playing Stidham and giving Jones more time to learn and develop.

If Stidham has a decent year, his trade value is off the chart, and hell, if he becones a solid starter - like Cousins did when RG3 went down, the Pats have all kinds of options.

 

[pazrul72]

I don't see it this way at all.

David Carr was the first pick of an expansion team with a horrible offensive line. The Patriots are a veteran team and have a solid offensive line, one of the best in the league. No comparison.

Every situation is different. Brees was bad the first two years he actually played, so he obviously wasn't ready. Brady, Mahomes, and Rogers were behind solid veteran QBs (Bledsoe/Alex Smith/Favre), not the likes of another young quarterback who is not in the team's future.

No way will they start Stidham over Jones, if both are equal. How about that move being a confidence killer for Jones? Bill will just go with Cam, no matter what, if Jones can't prove he's a starter. If they're equal, Stidham won't have proven he's a starter either.

Stidham is competing for backup.

Its ok to disagree, that’s what makes discussions interesting. David Carr was just the first name that popped to mind so if you want to say you can’t compare it that’s fine I can come up with 100 others. The problem you run into is how much is it the QB sucked and didn’t have the skills, mental toughness, competitive fire, whatever you want to base good QB play on, and how much of it is they got stuck in a bad situation and were never allowed to shine? I don’t think there is a good answer but the facts are more highly drafted QBs flame out then make it big which is why there is such a shortage of them. So my opinion is look at the best, do they have anything in common? Most of them sat and weren’t thrown into the fire. It could be circumstancial and they would have succeeded regardless of when they got to start but I am not willing to take that risk if there is, again IMO, pretty solid evidence that it gives my large investment into a franchise QB a better chance to reach his full potential. Based on the Joker sitting for 3 years at Alabama I don’t think that will do anything to his confidence but if it does then it means he wasn’t the guy anyway and we find out sooner to try again.

I still believe Cam will start 13-17 games and be “the man” this year but he is a older running QB and is going to miss some games due to dings and getting banged up. How many? Well that’s anyone’s guess and Mac will be the guy off the bench to keep the ship afloat. Then next year with a full offseason to have digested the playbook, got his body in NFL shape, and have learned how to be a pro, the Joker will take the reigns and start to prove he is a top 15 QB in this league and more then good enough to win with.

 

[Tony2046]

Its ok to disagree, that’s what makes discussions interesting. David Carr was just the first name that popped to mind so if you want to say you can’t compare it that’s fine I can come up with 100 others. The problem you run into is how much is it the QB sucked and didn’t have the skills, mental toughness, competitive fire, whatever you want to base good QB play on, and how much of it is they got stuck in a bad situation and were never allowed to shine? I don’t think there is a good answer but the facts are more highly drafted QBs flame out then make it big which is why there is such a shortage of them. So my opinion is look at the best, do they have anything in common? Most of them sat and weren’t thrown into the fire. It could be circumstancial and they would have succeeded regardless of when they got to start but I am not willing to take that risk if there is, again IMO, pretty solid evidence that it gives my large investment into a franchise QB a better chance to reach his full potential. Based on the Joker sitting for 3 years at Alabama I don’t think that will do anything to his confidence but if it does then it means he wasn’t the guy anyway and we find out sooner to try again.

I still believe Cam will start 13-17 games and be “the man” this year but he is a older running QB and is going to miss some games due to dings and getting banged up. How many? Well that’s anyone’s guess and Mac will be the guy off the bench to keep the ship afloat. Then next year with a full offseason to have digested the playbook, got his body in NFL shape, and have learned how to be a pro, the Joker will take the reigns and start to prove he is a top 15 QB in this league and more then good enough to win with.

That seems consistent with what BB did with Brady and Bledsoe. "Really Brady outperformed Bledsoe in camp....but...".

 

[Uptown]

ESPN's Mike Reiss thinks this Patriots player stood out in minicamp

Josh Uche was named as a minicamp stand out by ESPN.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Old-time Pats "ruined" Jim Plunkett early on by really piss poor pass protection and no effective OC driven outlet scheme. Fortunately he got a great 2nd chance and took advantage of the opportunity.
Premature ejaculation of rook QB into a toxic destructive offensive situation will NOT happen with Jones given the 2021 Patriots good OL and better offensive tools and quality OC game planning.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Curious if Jones stayed in Foxboro or went home. I haven't heard anything.

EDIT: or the other QB's for that matter

i was curious about that as well.

my guess is he is in there every day watching film and learning formations and alignments and whatever else he can pull out of film study,

 

[rochrist]

That seems consistent with what BB did with Brady and Bledsoe. "Really Brady outperformed Bledsoe in camp....but...".

But....Bledsoe was the face of the franchise who had recently signed a $100 million dollar contract and Brady was the #166th pick in the draft. Not a remotely comparable situation.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I don't see it this way at all.

David Carr was the first pick of an expansion team with a horrible offensive line. The Patriots are a veteran team and have a solid offensive line, one of the best in the league. No comparison.

Every situation is different. Brees was bad the first two years he actually played, so he obviously wasn't ready. Brady, Mahomes, and Rogers were behind solid veteran QBs (Bledsoe/Alex Smith/Favre), not the likes of another young quarterback who is not in the team's future.

No way will they start Stidham over Jones, if both are equal. How about that move being a confidence killer for Jones? Bill will just go with Cam, no matter what, if Jones can't prove he's a starter. If they're equal, Stidham won't have proven he's a starter either.

Stidham is competing for backup.

I think it's in the realm of possibility that Cam plays like a solid vet. There's a small chance he throws for an efficient TD/int ratio and a high completion rate (Alex Smith-like with better running numbers)

 

[PScottman]

I think it's in the realm of possibility that Cam plays like a solid vet.

Certain realms many want to visit. The land of Oz. The Star Wars universe. I'm not sure the Realm of Starting Cam is one such realm of nostalgic desire that is either sought after, or likely to bring about the realization of any dreams it may ever foment.

 

[captain stone]

Why, in the name of sweet Ganja, why?!?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Why, in the name of sweet Ganja, why?!?

I have to agree with the Captain on this one. Isn't there an athletic freak somewhere that needs a few years of training we can carry with the 90th spot (a project that might turn out significant)?

 

[Zuma]

Could there be an actual quarterback competition, and other observations on the upcoming Patriots training camp - The Boston Globe

Rookie Mac Jones made a strong impression in spring practices and may be poised to give Cam Newton a run for the job.

www.bostonglobe.com