Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Chris Stevenson]

They didn't get that stop in the Chiefs game and he played. I know the circumstances were different but still.... he was on the field in week 1 and he was not very good. So there's no reason why it's a stone cold lock he would have made a difference in the outcome of this game. He might have for sure, but it's not a guarantee.

This just proves that some of our fans see a person or a number out there, have fond memories of other seasons, and cannot take off their homeriffic goggles to be objective and judge fairly.

I have seen people mock or whine about actual, good players on our team. Some of our fans need to feel like the general NFL community sees our players as stars or Pro Bowlers, before they feel comfortable announcing how much they like the player.

In this case, with Butler, it's trending in the other direction. He has at best a mediocre year compared to even 2016, and in particular 2015, the latter his best.

It's very clear his focus in those years was about earning a contract, and then when he rejected NE's offer, one can deduce rejecting a very fair 7 mil per, the reason for the rejection is probably the years.

Throw in BB's passive-aggressive signing of Gilmore, which I was in favor of and knew why he offering him more upfront, and Butler clearly never got over it, which is sad, but also a testament to his overall mental state. I mean, the guy cried like a baby because he realized he screwed up royally wasn't goin gto be trusted to start and be ready to play in a SB.

Again, the source of this is Butler and his agent tied to their delusions.

Even Edelman doesn't get 4 year deals. Nink, same thing. Just take the 2 years and then revist a new deal after the 2 years if you want to retire a Patriot. Very simple.

 

[Kontradiction]

OK?

Did we win these games? Chiefs, Texans, Panthers were all in September. I just said it.....BB's Ds are NEVER locked down tight in Sept. He's still tinkering and usese it as extended preseason to see what he has up against live competition.

I am talking about Halloweenish, no 1st time starting run based QB, etc, the D prepares well and plays well. It's the element of the unknown factor where the D may struggle. Context is important on this topic. Not everything in the world is so black and white.

Also, we didn't see the D struggle vs the RPO because it didn't mean anything. Foles was on fire and was throwing darts all over the field. That's why they lost. I saw no broken coverages or egregious coverages from the LBs or back end.

You may want to go refresh yourself on those schedules. Those games are from all points in the year. The schemes and game plans against those QBs don’t change, for the most part. And we got killed against the RPO because of coaching and game planning. Those two reasons are why Foles was throwing darts all over the field, NEM.

 

[Steve102]

192 pages of people looking for Belichick's head. I imagine if Kraft was asked "will the coaching position be evaluated this week" he would answer it the same way Belichick did when asked about Brady. Might even get the same look.

Let me put it this way, would you all want to cut Tom Brady if he threw 4-5 picks against the Eagles? I doubt you would.

 

[bormio]

OK?

Did we win these games? Chiefs, Texans, Panthers were all in September. I just said it.....BB's Ds are NEVER locked down tight in Sept. He's still tinkering and usese it as extended preseason to see what he has up against live competition.

I am talking about Halloweenish, no 1st time starting run based QB, etc, the D prepares well and plays well. It's the element of the unknown factor where the D may struggle. Context is important on this topic. Not everything in the world is so black and white.

Also, we didn't see the D struggle vs the RPO because it didn't mean anything. Foles was on fire and was throwing darts all over the field. That's why they lost. I saw no broken coverages or egregious coverages from the LBs or back end.

Yeah, the Patriots D played really, really well. That’s what I took away from the game.

 

[Kontradiction]

192 pages of people looking for Belichick's head. I imagine if Kraft was asked "will the coaching position be evaluated this week" he would answer it the same way Belichick did when asked about Brady. Might even get the same look.

Let me put it this way, would you all want to cut Tom Brady if he threw 4-5 picks against the Eagles? I doubt you would.

There’s nobody I’d rather coach my favorite team. But that doesn’t mean he’s above reproach. I’m sure BB will be the first to tell you that he makes mistakes.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Yeah, the Patriots D played really, really well. That’s what I took away from the game.

Philly's D played so well, too.

Have you never seen a shootout in the NFL before? It's only the league the owners and Goodell have created and wanted for 10 years.

Enjoy!

 

[Chris Stevenson]

There’s nobody I’d rather coach my favorite team. But that doesn’t mean he’s above reproach. I’m sure BB will be the first to tell you that he makes mistakes.

Absolutely.

And, same with Brady. He dropped an easy pass from Amendola, which seized momentum and continued on with a weak red zone push in the first half. Another sluggish offensive start.

THAT is the part your Brady Lovers can't understand. He's human. He's not a robot, and as you can see, yards in a game are probably the most meaningless stat in sports.

 

[bormio]

Philly's D played so well, too.

Have you never seen a shootout in the NFL before? It's only the league the owners and Goodell have created and wanted for 10 years.

Enjoy!

I have also seen blowouts - which that game could have been if our defense was merely competent.

 

[Kontradiction]

Absolutely.

And, same with Brady. He dropped an easy pass from Amendola, which seized momentum and continued on with a weak red zone push in the first half. Another sluggish offensive start.

THAT is the part your Brady Lovers can't understand. He's human. He's not a robot, and as you can see, yards in a game are probably the most meaningless stat in sports.

Too funny. Guy throws for 505 yards, 3 TDs, a 115.4 rating, hands the defense the keys with the lead in the 4th quarter, and you're faulting him for dropping a pass on a gadget play that one can even argue he was led a bit too much on. Meanwhile, the defense forces one punt all game, leaves Foles with a clean jersey, and allows 41 points. But yeah, let's put the blame on Brady. The red zone possession would have resulted in points had Cooks not tried to hurdle the defender and had just cut upfield and dove. I guess blaming Brady makes sense if you're uneducated, but for the rest of us it looks like you have an axe to grind.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I have also seen blowouts - which that game could have been if our defense was merely competent.

Right, but you could say the same with Philly's D. They made one more play than our D did, basically. You tip your cap and move on.

I don't disagree the D could have made one of their own. Just ONE of those 4th and 1s, and I think we may have won. It would have flipped momentum, and maybe a TD drive there, which may have been the thing to set them into motion to ice the game later on.

 

[bormio]

Too funny. Guy throws for 505 yards, 3 TDs, a 115.4 rating, hands the defense the keys with the lead in the 4th quarter, and you're faulting him for dropping a pass on a gadget play that one can even argue he was led a bit too much on. Meanwhile, the defense forces one punt all game, leaves Foles with a clean jersey, and allows 41 points. But yeah, let's put the blame on Brady. I guess that makes sense if you're uneducated, but for the rest of us it looks like you have an axe to grind.

We are not supposed to call each other idiots - so I guess I should stop now. Brady was not perfect - that is why we lost. Brilliant analysis!

 

[bormio]

Right, but you could say the same with Philly's D. They made one more play than our D did, basically. You tip your cap and move on.

I don't disagree the D could have made one of their own. Just ONE of those 4th and 1s, and I think we may have won. It would have flipped momentum, and maybe a TD drive there, which may have been the thing to set them into motion to ice the game later on.

I could care less about Philly’s D. A diversion from our suck ass performance.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Too funny. Guy throws for 505 yards, 3 TDs, a 115.4 rating, hands the defense the keys with the lead in the 4th quarter, and you're faulting him for dropping a pass on a gadget play that one can even argue he was led a bit too much on. Meanwhile, the defense forces one punt all game, leaves Foles with a clean jersey, and allows 41 points. But yeah, let's put the blame on Brady. I guess that makes sense if you're uneducated, but for the rest of us it looks like you have an axe to grind.

Do you watch these SBs? The fact you regurgitate stats means your play fantasy football.

There are other things that occur in games that are not tied to stat accumulation.

Brady had multiple gaffes in that game, so he is far from removed from any criticism.

If Foles dropped his TD or fumbled the ball when he should have tucked it and taken a sack, he should have gotten criticism in a loss for that, too, regardless of total yards accumulated.

Pretty much all these SBs come down to the final minutes because of how the league is set up, to cater to fantasy people like you.

The irony.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I could care less about Philly’s D. A diversion from our suck ass performance.

It's not a diversion. It's how the league is set up. Sorry you are just figuring this out now.

You have a great offense and just need a good D, not a great one.

Offense wins championships and Philly's aggressiveness and work in the red zone was the difference. Our offense struggled badly in the first half in the red zone, yet again, as McDaniels wastes all kinds of time, acting confused in 1st qtrs, especially in Super Bowls.

Philly outplayed us in all 3 phases, they deserved to in, and tip my cap. You people who can't do this are the ones with the issues.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

We are not supposed to call each other idiots - so I guess I should stop now. Brady was not perfect - that is why we lost. Brilliant analysis!

Where did anyone say Brady had to be perfect? Do you honestly think playing from behind in all of his Super Bowls or never scoring a TD in the 1st qtr off of your first scripted drive, is a good thing? If so, why?

Why does it always need to be the D making some heroic play in an offensive era? The D clearly under-performed, but it doesn't solve the question I am asking.

Kinda funny how many of my comments/predictions unfortunately rang true. I hate that I was right, because we lost, but I was still right.

Fact: Brady was outplayed by Foles in the first half, and that occurred in the red zone.

Ball game.

All 3 phases had various degrees of under-performing, not just the D.

Enough with this internet quest to absolve Brady from any accountability. He was brilliant overall but it was because of the 2nd half performance. His first half was yet again, sporadic.

Our D was wildly undermanned compared to 2016. It wasn't SB 46-level, but the offense was the more loaded side of the ball.

Why isn't Brady demanding 2 back sets with White/Burkhead more involved on the very first drive?

He scripts the drives. He is on the gameplan discussions.

Anyone seen Burkhead? Still missing? lmao

 

[Steve102]

There’s nobody I’d rather coach my favorite team. But that doesn’t mean he’s above reproach. I’m sure BB will be the first to tell you that he makes mistakes.

I am not questioning that. I squawked after 4th and 2, after cutting Lawyer, after letting Willie go, ect., ect. I think he's the best coach there is, bar none. But he's not infallible, as other posters here think. I'm firmly in the IBWT camp, but I am not about to goosestep to everything he says or does.

I absolutely want to know what the hell he was thinking, what he saw, and why on earth Butler went from 98% of the snaps to none. "A football decision" doesn't cut it. What I would really like is a "Do your Job 3", but I know that's not happening.

But these people that want his head on a pike at the front gate of Gillette, they are not paying attention to what goes on, what he stands for. He's not about to lose a Super Bowl because of ego, like I believe Parcells did vs. the Packers. I believe he made a coaching move, and he was wrong. He saw something in the Eagles offense that made him think that, like the Bills v Giants SB, he needed to try to be bold and do something drastic, like letting Thurman Thomas run. Now I want to know what he saw, and what precipitated Butler getting 0 snaps.

 

[Soliel]

I’ll never tip my cap to the dirty , cheating steroid smoking eagles.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I am not questioning that. I squawked after 4th and 2, after cutting Lawyer, after letting Willie go, ect., ect. I think he's the best coach there is, bar none. But he's not infallible, as other posters here think. I'm firmly in the IBWT camp, but I am not about to goosestep to everything he says or does.

I absolutely want to know what the hell he was thinking, what he saw, and why on earth Butler went from 98% of the snaps to none. "A football decision" doesn't cut it. What I would really like is a "Do your Job 3", but I know that's not happening.

But these people that want his head on a pike at the front gate of Gillette, they are not paying attention to what goes on, what he stands for. He's not about to lose a Super Bowl because of ego, like I believe Parcells did vs. the Packers. I believe he made a coaching move, and he was wrong. He saw something in the Eagles offense that made him think that, like the Bills v Giants SB, he needed to try to be bold and do something drastic, like letting Thurman Thomas run. Now I want to know what he saw, and what precipitated Butler getting 0 snaps.

Well, that 4th and 2 worked. To this day I am stunned at the levels in which Goodell will go.

The replay is there for anyone to see. Nothing like your stomach turning to jelly when you know you've been completely jobbed at the end of a game.

As for Butler, why should BB leak out all the specific details to sabotage his pending FA status?

It's clear it was a combo of things that forced his hand. I'd stop listening to Felger and Mazz, because they never have it right.

 

[bormio]

Hasn’t he already exceeded his 40 posts today?

 

[Steve102]

Well, that 4th and 2 worked. To this day I am stunned at the levels in which Goodell will go.

No, they lost. It was the right call, in hindsight, but it didn't work. They didn't get the first down. If you're referring to a chitty spot, it's irrelevant now. They didn't get it.

As for Butler, why should BB leak out all the specific details to sabotage his pending FA status?

I don't really care about his status. My job is to root for the team, not protect some malcontent who thinks he was jobbed. He was a RFA, not an UFA. Shut up, do your job, do it well, and cash in on the next contract. I certainly differ from BB on this. I wouldn't protect any player who jeopardized the other 52 guys, the coaches, and the organization from attaining the goal. I would let it be known why he didn't play. I'd burn the SOB down. Nothing would stop me from protecting the other 52 guys. As a coach, I would work my ass of to keep the player in the fold, but once he's a lost cause, I would not let him take away from the other players.