Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Kontradiction]

What would make it warranted? That would still lead to Butler dressing AND playing, which he did?

I have no clue. I’m looking forward to learning that myself.

 

[chasa]

So what? You are missing a very crucial piece of information -- what the defense would have given up with Butler playing. You can't simply handwavingly assume it would be better. Well, I suppose you could, but then you can't draw any conclusions from it because you'd be assuming your conclusion.

right, its a psych 101 scenario called schrodingers cat.

That's why everyone is pissed off. We know butler was good enough to be #2 and for a spell #1 for 98% of the snaps.

he had zero snaps in the superbowl. ZERO. and the defense gave up 41 points.

We know we lose the superbowl with butler on the bench.

if butler plays ONE series in the superbowl, would the defense have held on and forced as punt?

Thats all the team needed at the end, a single punt.

I'm willing to bet butler would have helped the defense get one stop. How about you>?

 

[chasa]

What would make it warranted? That would still lead to Butler dressing AND playing, which he did?

I'm pretty sure i heard he said that the catering sucked, and the chicken tasted like ****, and it was literal garbage.

wait that was randy moss.

 

[bormio]

If this was any other team, we would say a move like this is going to leave them broken.

No doubt that would be the take - and I think it will be a big challenge for Belichick to deal with. I think he will, but it will not be public.

 

[Adam Seward]

I still believe it had to be a discipline issue. For what and was it justified? We don’t know yet. There is no way Bill sticks with a dud game plan, 4 safety dime, with most of the secondary misaligned because he is committed to out thinking the room or collapse trying.

 

[lancerman]

right, its a psych 101 scenario called schrodingers cat.

That's why everyone is pissed off. We know butler was good enough to be #2 and for a spell #1 for 98% of the snaps.

he had zero snaps in the superbowl. ZERO. and the defense gave up 41 points.

We know we lose the superbowl with butler on the bench.

if butler plays ONE series in the superbowl, would the defense have held on and forced as punt?

Thats all the team needed at the end, a single punt.

I'm willing to bet butler would have helped the defense get one stop. How about you>?

It's beyond just that though it's

Is....

-having our second best CB on the field when we didn't
-having our 4th and 5th best CB's spending significantly less time on the field than they did
-having the safeties play in their regular position

enough of a difference to get that one more stop we needed to win?

Kinda hard to say no.

 

[aluminum seats]

I have no clue. I’m looking forward to learning that myself.

See, I'm of the mind that there's no set of facts that would justify what occurred. The whole point of the entire enterprise is to win Super Bowls. If they decide to throw that away, what's the point.

 

[captain stone]

If this was any other team, we would say a move like this is going to leave them broken.

It still might.

 

[SilverSeven]

It still might.

Without even factoring in Belichick, guys like Brady and Edelman aren't going to let it happen. I agree this could be a Seattle type situation for any other team but I do think we have too many leaders for this thing to derail. The Pats could very well not make the super bowl or the AFC Championship game next season but it won't be due to the Butler situation. It'll be due to a competitive conference/league.

 

[Off The Grid]

Let's do a character analysis.

On the one hand, we have a player who threw away chances in college based on misbehavior and terrible attitude and was working at a fast food restaurant when he got a last chance, was signed as a UDFA, and made good for a few years and was a top player for us before he started to feel disrespected after recent contract talks went sour and after that the attitude problems started to resurface in the last year or so

Versus

A man who for 18 years has been doing what he felt was best for the franchise and its ownership and their best possible chance of winning Superbowls with a single-minded, almost religious devotion to that goal above almost all else.

It is entirely within Butler's character to backslide into the guy who blew his first couple chances at making a life out of football and wound up a UDFA despite what should have been second- or third-round talent.

It is entirely within Bill Belichick's character to size that situation up as it's happening and make the football decision that Butler's deteriorating character does not allow him to be a viable option in the Superbowl and decide that putting the best possible team on the field is more important than putting the best possible jersey names on the field, and that Butler is not part of his best possible team anymore.

That would be technically a football rather than a disciplinary situation, it would fit both the character of the two men and all the available facts. Butler backslid to the behaviors and personality that got him kicked out of college the first time round, and Bill decided that he couldn't trust him to perform at the level we'd come to expect, and that he couldn't risk putting a player he didn't trust on the field.

this along with 0.99 will get you a cup of coffee at cumbies

You shouldn't respond to statements that you are incapable of understanding.

Then again...that would entail your ceasing to post altogether.

What a tragedy that would be.

 

[Kontradiction]

See, I'm of the mind that there's no set of facts that would justify what occurred. The whole point of the entire enterprise is to win Super Bowls. If they decide to throw that away, what's the point.

I don’t think there will be either. But I still can’t judge it fully yet without knowing more information first.

 

[bormio]

I don’t think there will be either. But I still can’t judge it fully yet without knowing more information first.

I do not know if we ever will. Patriots have been VERY tight-lipped after the SB. The thing I will never get over is the absolute incompetence of our defense. 8/10 drives led to points - really should have been 9/10. This outfit only put 15 on the Falcons - they were not a juggernaut. This offense was not something new or unexpected - we act like RPO is some kind of revelation. They were flat-out horrible and made no really great adjustments. Suffice it to say BB did not earn his salary for the 2 weeks leading up to the SB, whatever you think of the Butler situation.

 

[Kontradiction]

I do not know if we ever will. Patriots have been VERY tight-lipped after the SB. The thing I will never get over is the absolute incompetence of our defense. 8/10 drives led to points - really should have been 9/10. This outfit only put 15 on the Falcons - they were not a juggernaut. This offense was not something new or unexpected - we act like RPO is some kind of revelation. They were flat-out horrible and made no really great adjustments. Suffice it to say BB did not earn his salary for the 2 weeks leading up to the SB, whatever you think of the Butler situation.

The team has sucked defending offenses where the quarterback is a threat to run for as long as I can remember. The game plans are garbage. Having multiple guys in the back end playing out of their natural roles didn’t help, either.

 

[bormio]

The team has sucked defending offenses where the quarterback is a threat to run for as long as I can remember. The game plans are garbage. Having multiple guys in the back end playing out of their natural roles didn’t help, either.

Well they better figure it out - the new NFL has these QBs in spades. Besides, Foles was not really a running threat.

 

[aluminum seats]

I don’t think there will be either. But I still can’t judge it fully yet without knowing more information first.

I doubt anything definitive ever comes out. But I don't think it matters, because none of the speculation here justifies what happened...so if we can't even create a hypothetical that works, who cares if "facts" come out, you know?

 

[IllegalContact]

You shouldn't respond to statements that you are incapable of understanding.

Then again...that would entail your ceasing to post altogether.

What a tragedy that would be.

and here we have the world leader in worthless gibberish.........I understand all to well that so many of you don't know what the f.ck you're talking about

 

[Kontradiction]

I doubt anything definitive ever comes out. But I don't think it matters, because none of the speculation here justifies what happened...so if we can't even create a hypothetical that works, who cares if "facts" come out, you know?

I do. Everyone should. You don’t want to ever reach a conclusion and work backwards from there. And I guarantee you something will get leaked either way after Butler signs his new deal. It’ll probably come from either him or his camp. There will more than likely also be more details about the negotiations that went down last offseason as well, too.

 

[Steve102]

This thread is now #3 all time. Impressive, when you think about the fact the we have zero information.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The team has sucked defending offenses where the quarterback is a threat to run for as long as I can remember. The game plans are garbage. Having multiple guys in the back end playing out of their natural roles didn’t help, either.

That's just not true. Since Nov 2011 in Denver in the first half, BB's Ds have done fine in this area.

Where they don't do well, and this happens with a lot of teams, is first time QBs who mare mobile. Without much film on them, yes, BB's D have issues, as do a lot of Ds.

It's not uncommon.

Foles is not much of a runner so I don't know where this is coming from.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

You shouldn't respond to statements that you are incapable of understanding.

Then again...that would entail your ceasing to post altogether.

What a tragedy that would be.

LOL!