Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[lancerman]

Where are you getting this stuff?

If the opponent scores 39 points, you got to score more than 38.

If the opponent scores 39 the defense didn't do it's job and the team deserves to lose based off that. If somehow the offense outscores 39, then the offense deserves all the credit and the defense should kiss their ass.

If you think it's remotely reasonable to ask an offense to need 39 points to win a game, you're out of your mind.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Yeah actually it is. Nobody in the history of this damn sport is going to fault a QB because 33 points and 500 yards wasn't enough to win the game.

What your basically saying is Brady is partially culpable because he failed to perform a two minute drill to make the lead 40.

Also, it would have been 37 points if not for botched fog and xp

 

[tom444]

If the opponent scores 39 the defense didn't do it's job and the team deserves to lose based off that. If somehow the offense outscores 39, then the offense deserves all the credit and the defense should kiss their ass.

If you think it's remotely reasonable to ask an offense to need 39 points to win a game, you're out of your mind.

You play the game that's unfolding on the field, not some theoretical game in your mind.

 

[Bubbatrammel]

-Belichick had to convinced by his QB coach to draft Brady and keep Brady on the roster.
-In the 2001 off season virtually everyone thought Brady was the better QB and Belichick elected to start Bledsoe for the season because "he had experience".

Let's not make Belichick out be some infallible deity here.

I knew about the first part. I didn't know about the second part. Is that from a book or an article? Do you have a link?

 

[lancerman]

I’m blaming the defense as a whole, one player would not have changed that, it was a total unit failure. And unlike you I don’t believe Malcolm Butler would have been the “ game changer” in that game. In fact

Brace yourself for it

Here’s my first HAWWWT TAKE ever


Malcolm Butler will never be anything more than an average cornerback again.

And to provide a measuring tape I’ll say this

Malcolm Butler will never make a Pro Bowl again.

The defense as a whole was a problem. A big part of that problem was that the secondary was fielding crap players and going to their 4th and 5th best CB's because they refused to play the 2nd best CB's who got more snaps than any defensive player in the season. One player has a huge impact on the defense. You are only as strong as your weakest link and in this case we made our chain weaker to send a message to a player.

Here's my hawt take: Butler will forever be remembered as a Super Bowl hero, he'll also forever be remembered for the team getting torched in a Super Bowl he got benched in. As great of a coach as Belichick is, this decision will follow him around for the rest of his career and it will be used as the definitive story of a great coach throwing his weight around for the detriment of his team.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Actually everything I said was well documented. It's well known that **** Rehbein championed Brady being drafted and being kept on the roster. It's also well documented that people were more impressed by Brady's performance in the 2001 off season than Bledsoe's and that Belichick made the call to go with Bledsoe because he felt he had experience.

So if you have a problem with that, you have a problem with reality.

And while Belichick deserves credit for being a great coach, no coach in his league ever accomplished what he accomplished without a great QB. And yes his record is poor to average without Brady.

So let's not have this discussion like he's some deity who is right every step of the way or mostly right. This was a clear mistake on his part. And this is something that years from now will be talked about as one of the worst moments of Belichick's career.

Yes this is all out the window if Butler did something ridiculous. But if it was that bad, then there's no justification for dressing him

No one said Rehbein didnt recommend Brady, everyone knows he did, but Belichick kept him as a 4th QB. And if you don’t remember the debate over Brady/Bledsoe then you have Alzheimer’s. And one more time, no one is saying Belichick is infallible, that’s just your idiotic straw man, what we are saying is that he’s the GOAT, and that’s pretty much a universally held point of view. What’s ridiculous is those of you pretending Belichick is a JAG coach.

 

[Kontradiction]

I didn't say anything about Brady. Obviously I was talking about the blocking, or lack there of, on that play.

Aye. Mason lost leverage at the snap. It's a shame because the performance from the OL was otherwise some of the best that we've seen since the early dynasty years. The Eagles even gave them credit post-game for dominating.

 

[lancerman]

I knew about the first part. I didn't know about the second part. Is that from a book or an article? Do you have a link?

I've read dozen articles saying something similar to the extent of a lot of people comparing Brady very favorably to Bledsoe in off season practices and the decision being more of an experience thing.

 

[Huckleberry1]

His career isn't all in New England.

And good for him 19-19 isn't a winning record.

195-55 (.780)
Oh and 27 playoff wins vs 0 in NE without Brady (and 1 total in the rest of his 7 year career).

Don't need to hear it. He's a losing coach without Brady. Even taking the most selective sample size possible he's still only .500. Yet with Brady he's the winningest coach of all time and has the record for playoff wins.

For anyone who believes you when you try to claim you didn’t say Belichick is a JAG coach.

 

[lancerman]

No one said Rehbein didnt recommend Brady, everyone knows he did, but Belichick kept him as a 4th QB. And if you don’t remember the debate over Brady/Bledsoe then you have Alzheimer’s. And one more time, no one is saying Belichick is infallible, that’s just your idiotic straw man, what we are saying is that he’s the GOAT, and that’s pretty much a universally held point of view. What’s ridiculous is those of you pretending Belichick is a JAG coach.

What's ridiculous is you implying that everyone who disagrees with you thinks Belichick is a JAG. See it's a common tactic of someone who has a bad argument to try to twist someone else's argument into the opposite extreme so they can argue on more favorable ground. You don't have a great argument against my points that Belichick made a poor decision here, nor do you have a great argument against my points that Brady significantly improved Belichick's career (it did, there's a record we can look at). Most great coaches have the same thing Belichick had... a star QB. That's not a knock on Belichick, you need a great QB to succeed. We've seen how great QB's have faltered because they didn't have the support of their coaches. But let's not act like it's a mutually exclusive relationship. Even the great coaches don't last that long without a talented QB.

 

[Huckleberry1]

What's ridiculous is you implying that everyone who disagrees with you thinks Belichick is a JAG. See it's a common tactic of someone who has a bad argument to try to twist someone else's argument into the opposite extreme so they can argue on more favorable ground. You don't have a great argument against my points that Belichick made a poor decision here, nor do you have a great argument against my points that Brady significantly improved Belichick's career (it did, there's a record we can look at). Most great coaches have the same thing Belichick had... a star QB. That's not a knock on Belichick, you need a great QB to succeed. We've seen how great QB's have faltered because they didn't have the support of their coaches. But let's not act like it's a mutually exclusive relationship. Even the great coaches don't last that long without a talented QB.

I just posted your earlier post claiming just that.

 

[lancerman]

For anyone who believes you when you try to claim you didn’t say Belichick is a JAG coach.

Are my numbers wrong? Did I make them up? Or are you just upset about them?

Belichick isn't a JAG. He's like every other great coach. Lombardi, Landry, Shula, Walsh, Noll. You need a great QB to be successful and if you don't have one you aren't going to be successful. So let's not live in a fantasy land where that isn't the case.

The numbers and records I have you were 100% legit. If facts bother you, I can't help you.

 

[BTTA]

The players don’t give a hoot about his legacy. They just saw a year of their hard work get flushed down the toilet. Bill’s problem is not with the fans - it is going to be with the players.

Every pro football player I've met (about 20) is highly competitive and yet at the same time understands that "it's just football." They count every blessing they have and understand that they live a charmed life. A season in which they win 15 of the 19 games they played, and got to experience a Super Bowl, is a blessing, not a toilet flush.

It's their life, and they are going to get over the SB loss, and get a smile back on their faces, faster than you are.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Sure there is.

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11
0-2
11-5
3-1

Total: 55- 63 (.466 win percentage)

1 playoff win.

That's Belichick's career without Brady. That's not a small sample size either. That's nearly 7 and half seasons.

Want me to do a comparison with Brady? We can just do the 7 worst years he's had with Brady and it's still night and day.

Another post from you claiming Belichick is a JAG coach.

Keep on trying to lie about it though.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Are my numbers wrong? Did I make them up? Or are you just upset about them?

Belichick isn't a JAG. He's like every other great coach. Lombardi, Landry, Shula, Walsh, Noll. You need a great QB to be successful and if you don't have one you aren't going to be successful. So let's not live in a fantasy land where that isn't the case.

The numbers and records I have you were 100% legit. If facts bother you, I can't help you.

You clearly cherry picked to make a sh.t argument, now you are trying to back out of your own argument.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Are my numbers wrong? Did I make them up? Or are you just upset about them?

Belichick isn't a JAG. He's like every other great coach. Lombardi, Landry, Shula, Walsh, Noll. You need a great QB to be successful and if you don't have one you aren't going to be successful. So let's not live in a fantasy land where that isn't the case.

The numbers and records I have you were 100% legit. If facts bother you, I can't help you.

Here’s a fact-8 Super Bowls as Patriot coach, 5 Lombardi’s.

 

[luuked]

I knew about the first part. I didn't know about the second part. Is that from a book or an article? Do you have a link?

You didn't know it because it is a dumb take based on hindsight. Benching your 100M franchise for a second year player that had a good camp but has essentially no real game experience is stupid.

There was never serious discussion at the start of the season of playing Brady over Drew. All revisionist garbage that is being made with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[lancerman]

I just posted your earlier post claiming just that.

No you extrapolated to claim that because I think Belichick significantly benefited from Brady means that I don't think he's a great coach or didn't become a great coach.

Look at Lombardi's record without Starr, look at Shula's record without Unitas/Griese/Marino, look at Noll's without Bradshaw, look at Landry's without Staubach, look at Walsh without Montana, etc. They all needed a great QB. And often the difference between a coach being great and struggling has a lot to do with a great QB.

That doesn't make them less great. It's the nature of the sport. We also know a not great coach like McCarthy or Tomlin and a great QB like Rodgers or Ben reveals the limitations of the coach.

Great coach like Lombardi/Belichick and Starr/Brady and the sky is the limit. However if you take away the QB, the coach is going to have issues.

 

[lancerman]

Here’s a fact-8 Super Bowls as Patriot coach, 5 Lombardi’s.

That doesn't dispute the point I made of Belichick without Brady....

See now it just seems like your running away and trying to find another argument because you can't debate my points head on. It's kind of funny watching you squirm and get hostile like this.

 

[lancerman]

You clearly cherry picked to make a sh.t argument, now you are trying to back out of your own argument.

No I'm not. Every great coach has a great QB, and every great coach doesn't look that great without a great QB. Belichick's a great coach, he's also the beneficiary of a great QB. He's not going to 8 Super Bowls and winning 5 without Brady. Anyone who thinks that is a clown. Brady wouldn't have this much success either without Belichick. But Brady would probably win a Super Bowl or two somewhere else. If Belichick had to keep Bledsoe/Cassell/his Cleveland QB's his whole career, maybe he goes to one or two as well.

But going to 8 and winning 5 and having the record they had isn't happening.