Mac Jones Through 2 Games (2021 vs 2022 vs 2023) By QTR and Redzone Totals

[amfootball]

Agreeing on McCaffery. He's at another level, and that stresses defenses.

He was a tremendous pick up by San Fran.

 

[archstanton543]

W/L record is also a QB stat.

If you want to that route, Rhamandre Stevenson also has a losing record at RB.

See how that works?

 

[amfootball]

If you want to that route, Rhamandre Stevenson also has a losing record at RB.

See how that works?

RBs do not carry a W-L record. QBs do as well as baseball pitchers and hockey goalies. You know why? Because their play affects the outcomes of games the most.

 

[archstanton543]

RBs do not carry a W-L record. QBs do as well as baseball pitchers and hockey goalies. You know why? Because their play affects the outcomes of games the most.

They play on the same team. They lost the same games.

 

[amfootball]

They play on the same team. They lost the same games.

You are missing the point entirely. QBs carry W-L record as a stat. No other player does because the QB affects the outcome of the games the most.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

OK, if you consider that a reasonable sum why did you call it a "nightmare scenario"?

It’s a reasonable comparison, not a reasonable sum. Daniel Jones sucks.

 

[sb1]

RBs do not carry a W-L record. QBs do as well as baseball pitchers and hockey goalies. You know why? Because their play affects the outcomes of games the most.

I don't think the QB win-loss record as the NFL tracks it means all that much at least compared to other sports.

The NFL credits the QB with a win or loss if he starts the game no matter how long he stays in the game. That's how Brady cinched his losing season last year, he started against Atlanta and had the lead, and the Bucs lost the lead after he left the game. Brady started so he took the "loss" in that one which was totally undeserved. Brady also officially "lost" Super Bowl 52 by NFL recordkeeping and I don't think anyone other than you-know-who on this board lol blames him for that for obvious reasons. Jim Kelly put his Bills team in a 28-3 hole in the famous Bills Oilers comeback game. He left the game because of injury and Reich led the Bills to the comeback. But Kelly was credited with the "win". So that system seems really flawed to me.

Also I would argue that stat means a lot more for hockey goalies and baseball pitchers. They can guarantee their team cannot lose a game by saving every shot and striking out every batter. Their teammates don't have to do a thing to make that happen. QB's can't do that. They need receivers to catch passes, etc. It really is the ultimate team game.

 

[Rob0729]

How many game winning drives ended like week 1 this year where a WR got a pass they should catch and couldn't pull it in or like the Bills game last year where they got in the redzone and an RB made a stupid play and fumbled? The other players matter with the "clutch gene". Tom Brady wasn't going to make those plays go different. In fact, we know Tom Brady just packed up and left when he saw what he was working with. So idk why a year 3 QB with 3 different OC's and one of the worst offensive casts in the NFL is going to be clutch.

That the thing, people overrate the game winning drive thing because sometimes it is out of the QB's control.

For example, against the Cowboys in his rookie season, Jones led the Patriots on a lead gaining TD with less than two minutes left in the game putting the Patriots up 29-26. The drive after that, the Cowboys were in a 3rd and 25 on their side of the field, the defense gave up 24 yards on that play giving the Cowboys an easy field goal.

By contrast, Kenny Pickett scores a TD against the Huntley led Ravens last year to put the Steelers up 16-13. The next drive, the Steelers intercept Huntley ending the game. Near immediately, there were people on this board and around the country labeling Pickett a potential rising star and better than Jones because of this comeback win and another very low scoring comeback win against the Raiders (13-10). Ignoring the fact that Pickett is awful and the only reason he was in position for those game winning drives is because his defense was good enough to overcome a crappy QB in those games.

But you can look at other games. Mac's first game. Stevenson fumbles away what would likely be the game winning score if converted on the Dolphins' 11 yard line on first down 17-16. Even then, there was nearly four minutes left in the game and the defense couldn't get the Dolphins off the field and they ran eight clock killing plays (even with the first play on that drive the Dolphins got offensive holding).

Against the Bucs that season, Folk missed a 56 yard field goal at the end of the game with the Pats down 19-17 with 59 seconds left.

Yes, there were games where he failed to step up in the end and could have had a game winning drive and didn't like against the Vikings last year. He isn't immune to criticism for not being able to mount game winning drives at the end of the game.

A decent sized reason why Brady had so many game winning drives is when he scored those game winning drives, the defense didn't screw it up after the opposing offense got the ball back desperate to score. I am not saying that to diminish Brady because he may be the best in history at game winning drives. But just pointing out there are other factors outside that can play into the success and failures of game winning drives.

 

[Toofy]

You are missing the point entirely. QBs carry W-L record as a stat. No other player does because the QB affects the outcome of the games the most.

They do but doesn't mean you treat their play in vacuum. Sum of parts needs to be positive at least neutral on offensive side. We are in negative territory there with offensive line and receivers.

We don't win Seattle Superbowl without butler interception or hightower goalline stop

We don't win falcons Superbowl without Edelman miraculous catch or hightower strip sack.

We don't win Rams Superbowl without defense stifling rams offense.

Brady played well but there were other key contributions from others.

Welker dropped a pass and we lost to broncos despite Brady playing at Superman level. Did you blame Brady for it then ? Welker got crucified for that one drop...


I think it's unfair to enforce Brady level expectations on Mac. Given the constraints and negative play all around him Mac has played remarkably well. I don't think we can get anybody else who can pull us out of this 0-2 situation unless every player on offense starts to exceed their expectation. Right now the offense is underwhelming sans Mac and we are what our record states - not good enough yet. I don't think burrow or mahomes or Allen could have done anything better. maybe Lamar because he is a running back.

 

[Rob0729]

About the win loss record thing for QBs. Many of the people here who are trashing Mac for his win loss record and saying it is everything for determining how good a QB is are the same people who wanted the Pats to trade for DeShaun Watson and even give up multiple first round picks for him even though his record at that point was 28-27. The same people who say Jones sucks because of his record wanted to treat Watson like an elite or near elite QB even though his record was around .500.

Based on Watson's record in Houston, he was only worth a conditional 4th round pick or so. Granted based on how he is playing in Cleveland, Watson's record really should have dictated how much he was worth in a trade.

 

[Tunescribe]

RBs do not carry a W-L record. QBs do as well as baseball pitchers and hockey goalies. You know why? Because their play affects the outcomes of games the most.

PFF: through the first two games the Patriots OL is ranked 27th in pass blocking and dead last in run blocking. Despite no running game and poor protection, Mac Jones has a 69-percent completion percentage on the league's most pass attempts for the sixth-most yards among all quarterbacks. If that isn't rising to the occasion under duress, I don't know what is.

 

[amfootball]

I don't think the QB win-loss record as the NFL tracks it means all that much at least compared to other sports.

The NFL credits the QB with a win or loss if he starts the game no matter how long he stays in the game. That's how Brady cinched his losing season last year, he started against Atlanta and had the lead, and the Bucs lost the lead after he left the game. Brady started so he took the "loss" in that one which was totally undeserved. Brady also officially "lost" Super Bowl 52 by NFL recordkeeping and I don't think anyone other than you-know-who on this board lol blames him for that for obvious reasons. Jim Kelly put his Bills team in a 28-3 hole in the famous Bills Oilers comeback game. He left the game because of injury and Reich led the Bills to the comeback. But Kelly was credited with the "win". So that system seems really flawed to me.

Also I would argue that stat means a lot more for hockey goalies and baseball pitchers. They can guarantee their team cannot lose a game by saving every shot and striking out every batter. Their teammates don't have to do a thing to make that happen. QB's can't do that. They need receivers to catch passes, etc. It really is the ultimate team game.

33 games is a large sample size. Still, I do want to see the rest of this season play out but 0-2 out of the gate is not a good start ...

 

[amfootball]

PFF: through the first two games the Patriots OL is ranked 27th in pass blocking and dead last in run blocking. Despite no running game and poor protection, Mac Jones has a 69-percent completion percentage on the league's most pass attempts for the sixth-most yards among all quarterbacks. If that isn't rising to the occasion under duress, I don't know what is.

I could care less about completion percentage ... win the game.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I could care less about completion percentage ... win the game.

Worst QB stat and has no correlation to points or wins. This is the main reason the traditional passer rating formula is warped. It’s already covered (better) in yards/attempt. Mac has 69% completion and 5.4 ypa. That is one of the more extreme splits I’ve seen.

 

[ausbacker]

PFF: through the first two games the Patriots OL is ranked 27th in pass blocking and dead last in run blocking. Despite no running game and poor protection, Mac Jones has a 69-percent completion percentage on the league's most pass attempts for the sixth-most yards among all quarterbacks. If that isn't rising to the occasion under duress, I don't know what is.

The problem Tune, is the arm strength looks Chad Pennington noodle arm-like.

 

[amfootball]

Also, Mac calling out his teammates publicly for not staying late is not good leadership. He needs to be leading on the practice field and the game field ..

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

About the win loss record thing for QBs. Many of the people here who are trashing Mac for his win loss record and saying it is everything for determining how good a QB is are the same people who wanted the Pats to trade for DeShaun Watson and even give up multiple first round picks for him even though his record at that point was 28-27.

Specifically which of the “Many of the people here trashing Mac” posters here wanted the Patriots to trade multiple first round picks for Deshaun Watson?

Sounds like another confabulation.

 

[amfootball]

Worst QB stat and has no correlation to points or wins. This is the main reason the traditional passer rating formula is warped. It’s already covered (better) in yards/attempt. Mac has 69% completion and 5.4 ypa. That is one of the more extreme splits I’ve seen.

That's why the completion percentage is high when the ball is only traveling 5 yards.

 

[sb1]

33 games is a large sample size. Still, I do want to see the rest of this season play out but 0-2 out of the gate is not a good start ...

Definitely not ideal.

 

[Rob0729]

Specifically which of the “Many of the people here trashing Mac” posters here wanted the Patriots to trade multiple first round picks for Deshaun Watson?

Sounds like another confabulation.

Really? A large portion of this board wanted Watson and that took multiple first round picks. Anyone who wanted Watson was willing to trade multiple first round picks for him since it was common knowledge it would take at least two firsts to get him (The Texans were asking for three firsts).