Mac Jones' Last Five Games - 2022 vs 2021

[BaconGrundleCandy]

"I don't study the game film" ... That much is clear lol.

Reminds me of a young person with a ton of conviction on something they know nothing about. They're trying but you can't take them seriously.

 

[Rob0729]

Burrow is an exceptionally talented quarterback. Only Mahomes and Allen can be rated higher and it's really close. Give the man the respect he deserves. At this point in their careers, Burrow rates much higher than Mac. It's not even remotely a discussion.

Did I say Mac is remotely close to Burrow. I am just saying he would struggle in this offense. Not as much as Jones.

There are just some significant issues with this offense that no QB can overcome.

 

[Rob0729]

"I don't study the game film" ... That much is clear lol.

Reminds me of a young person with a ton of conviction on something they know nothing about. They're trying but you can't take them seriously.

And you do? See the difference between me and you is I admit it.

I leave game film study to guys you love like Lazar and Orlovsky. You know people you feel tell the truth when they feel Mac Jones is pretty good.

But I am glad you don't read my posts like you claim

 

[crawhammer]

Did I say Mac is remotely close to Burrow. I am just saying he would struggle in this offense. Not as much as Jones.

There are just some significant issues with this offense that no QB can overcome.

Did you see what Burrow did last season with a trash o-line? He only lead the NFL in completion percentage and nearly won the Super Bowl. Burrow would have this Patriots team competing for the division tomorrow.

 

[Rob0729]

Did you see what Burrow did last season with a trash o-line? He only lead the NFL in completion percentage and nearly won the Super Bowl. Burrow would have this Patriots team competing for the division tomorrow.

The o-line isn't the only issue with the Patriots. If receivers are not making their breaks at the right time or looking back for the ball when they should, no QB is going to overcome that.

Yes, the Bengals had an abysmal o-line last year and not a great one this year, but they had great receivers who were open and looking back for the ball when Burrow was ready to throw it to him. And he has a competent OC designing routes that don't make it easy to defend those receivers.

 

[TomPatriot]

"I don't study the game film" ... That much is clear lol.

Reminds me of a young person with a ton of conviction on something they know nothing about. They're trying but you can't take them seriously.

Not nice and not fair. Maybe you could address Rob’s main point, which is that Burrows wouldn’t do as well in this offense either. Isn't that true?

 

[venecol]

Did you see what Burrow did last season with a trash o-line? He only lead the NFL in completion percentage and nearly won the Super Bowl. Burrow would have this Patriots team competing for the division tomorrow.

Yea, the stubborn take that NEP have the worse OL in the league and nobody would be able to perform behind it, completely ignores Tua, Burrow, Herbert, all of which have worse OLs and are killing it. Though Herbert's #s have taken a drop this season, he still finds ways to win with 4 4QC and 5 GWD. All of these guys are clutch. Even Kenny Pickett, a rookie, has 3/4. There are 37 QBs with at least 1 in either category.

 

[venecol]

That's another talking point that is pure trash: the receivers weren't looking back.

Every single week we see QBs releasing the ball before the receiver even makes their cut. The announcers point it out because the anticipation required makes it a great throw. Not being able to throw unless your receiver is looking back at you severely limits the plays you can make. Its utter nonsense.

 

[Rob0729]

That's another talking point that is pure trash: the receivers weren't looking back.

Every single week we see QBs releasing the ball before the receiver even makes their cut. The announcers point it out because the anticipation required makes it a great throw. Not being able to throw unless your receiver is looking back at you severely limits the plays you can make. Its utter nonsense.

LOL! And analysts from Orlovsky to Lazar to Bedard to Warner point out that the receivers are not making their cut fast enough. I am going to trust the guys who actually study the game film and not the Z team of broadcast announcers. The Pats run a timing offense.

Here is Orlovsky's breakdown again showing this.



It's funny though. You accuse me of trying to make excuses for Jones for everything yet you blame everything wrong with the offense on Jones and give the receivers, o-line, and Patricia a free pass claiming Patricia isn't a bad OC and the offensive pass protection has been pretty good.

And I agree that the receiver doesn't have to be looking back for the ball for every catch. But I am talking about short to intermediate catches where they should be at the time of the throw which they aren't. And if the receivers weren't running horrible routes and even running into each other, I might put more of the blame on Jones.

Some more one offs:



Here is a play where Meyers for some unknown reason does multiple stutter steps that screws up the timing of the route and then an example where a similar play works without it.

 

[venecol]

LOL! And analysts from Orlovsky to Lazar to Bedard to Warner point out that the receivers are not making their cut fast enough. I am going to trust the guys who actually study the game film and not the Z team of broadcast announcers. The Pats run a timing offense.

Here is Orlovsky's breakdown again showing this.



It's funny though. You accuse me of trying to make excuses for Jones for everything yet you blame everything wrong with the offense on Jones and give the receivers, o-line, and Patricia a free pass claiming Patricia isn't a bad OC and the offensive pass protection has been pretty good.

And I agree that the receiver doesn't have to be looking back for the ball for every catch. But I am talking about short to intermediate catches where they should be at the time of the throw which they aren't. And if the receivers weren't running horrible routes and even running into each other, I might put more of the blame on Jones.

Thanks for posting Orlavsky's video that shows Bourne looking back from the 1st down marker that he completely ignores. We've been through this.

I'm not blaming everything on Mac, that's more nonsense from you. I'm not acknowledging the poor OL play, receiver drops or lack of creativity by the OC either. All I am saying and continue to repeat is that this isn't unique to the NEP and that other QBs find a way to make plays despite these same or worse issues.

The fact is that when you compare our QBs production with that of other QBs having similar issues, the results are stark. Mac is having a poor season despite all of these issues. That is clear as daylight.

Your problem is that by your own admission, your debate style is to go "hard" once you form an opinion. Unfortunately, being like a pit bull with a locked jaw once he bites doesn't allow you to be objective so you resort to labeling anyone that disagrees with you a hater. It's boring and lazy. You believe what you want. Have at it.

 

[Rob0729]

Thanks for posting Orlavsky's video that shows Bourne looking back from the 1st down marker that he completely ignores. We've been through this.

I'm not blaming everything on Mac, that's more nonsense from you. I'm not acknowledging the poor OL play, receiver drops or lack of creativity by the OC either. All I am saying and continue to repeat is that this isn't unique to the NEP and that other QBs find a way to make plays despite these same or worse issues.

The fact is that when you compare our QBs production with that of other QBs having similar issues, the results are stark. Mac is having a poor season despite all of these issues. That is clear as daylight.

Your problem is that by your own admission, your debate style is to go "hard" once you form an opinion. Unfortunately, being like a pit bull with a locked jaw once he bites doesn't allow you to be objective so you resort to labeling anyone that disagrees with you a hater. It's boring and lazy. You believe what you want. Have at it.

Again, Patricia is arguably the worst OC in the NFL. The guy is already all but fired from the position already. The are plenty of reports that Kraft wants him gone from the position, that Belichick acknowledges that it was a mistake giving him the position, and there are already talks about O'Brien becoming the OC. As of right now, the odds are that Jones will be starting next year and Patricia and Judge will be reassigned to new non-offense positions in the organization. So what does that tell you what the Patriots higher ups think about who is mostly to blame for the offense?

Again, I have never said Jones wasn't having a bad season. I have already said many times that he has regressed and many of his strengths from last year are now weaknesses. In fact, Lazar mentions that in his podcast that I posted a few pages ago. But I blame Patricia for a lot of the regression. Hell, I blame Belichick too. They put Jones in a position to fail.

But as many people have stated, Jones has played pretty well although inconsistently since Thanksgiving. The general consensus among the guys who do study game film is Jones is playing much better than people are giving credit for and many of his "bad plays" are because others are not doing their jobs correctly. You and the rest of the anti-Mac crowd still talk about the guy like he was playing in October and early November.

I bet someone like Ian doesn't say the same thing about my argument style when I am debating directly with him, but he is a rational poster who doesn't have his agendas.

 

[crawhammer]

The o-line isn't the only issue with the Patriots. If receivers are not making their breaks at the right time or looking back for the ball when they should, no QB is going to overcome that.

Yes, the Bengals had an abysmal o-line last year and not a great one this year, but they had great receivers who were open and looking back for the ball when Burrow was ready to throw it to him. And he has a competent OC designing routes that don't make it easy to defend those receivers.

Is this a big problem with the offense... receivers not looking back for the ball? It's laughable to suggest that's a bigger issue than Mac not seeing the whole field well or not reading through his progressions quickly enough.

Burrow's WRs are better but Mac isn't playing with a bunch of scrubs either. They may not have a legitimate WR1 but Parker, Bourne and Meyers are WR2s. Henry's a good TE. Stevenson is an excellent receiving back. They have a very good running game. The offense shouldn't suck as much as it does, even with a buffoon like Patricia pulling the strings. Mac has to do better with what he's got. A true franchise quarterback can elevate the team around him. We've it before, on a consistent basis.

 

[venecol]

Again, Patricia is arguably the worst OC in the NFL. The guy is already all but fired from the position already. The are plenty of reports that Kraft wants him gone from the position, that Belichick acknowledges that it was a mistake giving him the position, and there are already talks about O'Brien becoming the OC. As of right now, the odds are that Jones will be starting next year and Patricia and Judge will be reassigned to new non-offense positions in the organization. So what does that tell you what the Patriots higher ups think about who is mostly to blame for the offense?

None of this is true.

1. I guarantee you there are several fan bases that think their OC is the worst one. There is no metric to compare OCs but NEP offense is not the worse in several offensive metrics.
2. We don't know that Patricia is fired. Where is your proof?
3. We don't know what Kraft thinks. Those reports are pure speculation.
4. Belichick has never said it was a mistake to give him the position. That's BS. In fact he has said they need to play better.
5. People have been speculating about O'Brien since the offseason. What else is new?
6. I'm pretty sure we'll see a QB competition this coming offseason. There are no guarantees.
7. We have no idea what Patricia/Judge will be doing. More conjecture.
8. None of what you said tells me zilch about what the higher ups think. It's all made up BS. This is typical of you, to make a bunch of statements or opinions based on what others have said but with no proof.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

And you do? See the difference between me and you is I admit it.

Where have you been? This is what I mean. I'm wrong a lot and certain not perfect but come at me over that stuff.

Im hardly an expert but have posted similar tweets to Lazar's numerous times. Re-watch threads, my own thread. Mostly focusing on OL/DL/QB. Again hardly an expert but neither is Lazar and I could do his job with my eyes closed lol.

From my couch I ID more potential Patriots in one year than Lazar has since he's been doing this.

Conversely none of those guys could do my jobs.

I leave game film study to guys you love like Lazar and Orlovsky. You know people you feel tell the truth when they feel Mac Jones is pretty good.

But I am glad you don't read my posts like you claim

Dude I'm not reading a story from you don't take it personal. I read some stuff though.

I try to treat you with respect at least. You purposely distort and misrepresent my opinion on the rregular. I'm hardly a "Mac hater"

Not nice and not fair. Maybe you could address Rob’s main point, which is that Burrows wouldn’t do as well in this offense either. Isn't that true?

See above. I'm having a little fun with someone who likes dividing posters with "anti Mac" stuff and distort opinions.

Mac has been an average QB for 2 years. I'm pulling for him as much as anyone but he doesn't deserve "stans" going over the top every time the slightest criticism is brought up. It's not out of pocket to suggest he's biased or not on point considered he's probably only watch Patriot games, isn't watching game film to get context and is solely relaying on others for approval. On top of that he was touting Patricia just months ago lol! Sorry I don't think he has the best handle of the situation. I don't think that's mean.

I have plenty of post on Mac and I'd love to see someone pull up one that's over the top or really harsh. I'm wrong a lot but nailed his evaluation and have been objective when discussing him even though I've said since draft night he wouldn't have been my choice.
I had a 2nd on him. I think you can win with him. You just need a lot to go right at once and top tier everything across the board. Same as guys like Jimmy, Carr, Cousins.

As for how Burrow would do? Im not throwing out records or specific #'s but we've seen him produce a better TD/INT and similar #'s with a worse OL in less games, without Chase.

 

[Patsfan177a]

That's another talking point that is pure trash: the receivers weren't looking back.

Every single week we see QBs releasing the ball before the receiver even makes their cut. The announcers point it out because the anticipation required makes it a great throw. Not being able to throw unless your receiver is looking back at you severely limits the plays you can make. Its utter nonsense.

LOL. On the TD pass to Thornton last week, Mac threw the ball well before TT looked back for it, or had even made his turn.

 

[lancerman]

Did I say Mac is remotely close to Burrow. I am just saying he would struggle in this offense. Not as much as Jones.

There are just some significant issues with this offense that no QB can overcome.

Every top QB in the league would be worse in this offense. Let's not beat around the bush on this.

 

[Ian]

Thanks for posting Orlavsky's video that shows Bourne looking back from the 1st down marker that he completely ignores. We've been through this.

I'm not blaming everything on Mac, that's more nonsense from you. I'm not acknowledging the poor OL play, receiver drops or lack of creativity by the OC either. All I am saying and continue to repeat is that this isn't unique to the NEP and that other QBs find a way to make plays despite these same or worse issues.

I think this is one issue I have about this argument. You keep saying "other QBs" - what other second-year QBs can you honestly say would have overcome these issues that aren't a higher tier QB like Herbert, Burrow, etc? We've had this discussion about your view on Mac, with your problem being because of where he was picked, him having the whole offseason, etc. But I don't think I've seen you yet make a fair comparison to whatever "other QB" you think could have overcome the chaos here.

I mean Jacksonville is a prime example. And Trevor Lawrence is a much more talented player than Mac who couldn't overcome bad coaching and the chaos that went on down there last year. I get you're frustrated with him, and you don't like him (you say you do - yet I haven't seen you say anything positive unless you're pushed and if you're pushed too far, you got upset and instead came back with "I can't wait for the excuses").

But I just don't get why you keep ragging on the kid. He's worked hard, hasn't passed blame and he's been accountable. He's had some good moments and, yes, he's had some bad moments. It is what it is.

He's done things that have been his fault, he's had other situations where his struggles stemmed from circumstances outside his control. And my biggest issue does intersect with one of yours in that he let his emotions get the best of him this year. So I'm hoping there's some maturity growth during the offseason.

As far as who is the long-term QB? No idea. Saw enough last year to feel like he could be what they need. Obviously, after this season, none of us really know. And that's incredibly frustrating.

At the same time, everybody said the same about Lawrence last year. And his second-year was different with better coaching.

You also keep ragging on him about not having "it". I've cited a couple of times where he showed signs, but other things happened. Last week, he led a key drive to seal the game. It was enough.

That said, look around the league. All the elite ones have "it". They're few and far between. We need a guy, for now, who can put up points and keep them competitive. We had an elite guy. He's gone.

Hopefully, he'll finish strong and then take the next step next season. If he doesn't, they'll find out just in time to decide on his option. And maybe Zappe competes next fall, who knows? But either way, most of us are hoping things work out because the longer this drags on, the worse it is on all of us.

I don't care. I'm rooting for him, but it's on him to get it done. If it's Zappe, I'll be rooting for him and I'll be just as fair to him as well. As long as they care and they take accountability, that's all you can ask for. But as I've said repeatedly, we're stuck with average to good until who they have either steps up or they move on.

Welcome to being just like the rest of the NFL.

And I have no idea how you'll handle Tom's eventual retirement...I'm a little worried for you.

 

[venecol]

LOL. On the TD pass to Thornton last week, Mac threw the ball well before TT looked back for it, or had even made his turn.

I'm not the one making that argument. Talk to Robo.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Lawrence looked bad against the Titans. 10 total offensive points. Let's see how Mac looks on Sunday.

 

[Rob0729]

None of this is true.

1. I guarantee you there are several fan bases that think their OC is the worst one. There is no metric to compare OCs but NEP offense is not the worse in several offensive metrics.
2. We don't know that Patricia is fired. Where is your proof?
3. We don't know what Kraft thinks. Those reports are pure speculation.
4. Belichick has never said it was a mistake to give him the position. That's BS. In fact he has said they need to play better.
5. People have been speculating about O'Brien since the offseason. What else is new?
6. I'm pretty sure we'll see a QB competition this coming offseason. There are no guarantees.
7. We have no idea what Patricia/Judge will be doing. More conjecture.
8. None of what you said tells me zilch about what the higher ups think. It's all made up BS. This is typical of you, to make a bunch of statements or opinions based on what others have said but with no proof.

1. Who cares what other fan bases think? Analysts both locally and nationally have trashed Patricia and how he is running the offense. You are not seeing that about a lot of other OCs.
2. Patricia won't be fired. He will be reassigned.
3. Not speculation. It was based on sources inside the Patriots' organization.
4. Again, more reports by people in the organization
5. There are reports there are mutual interests for his return.
6. I doubt it. Because this year is a lost year because Belichick screwed up so badly, the Patriots have to spend next year doing an honest assessment of not only Jones, but other players on offense that they couldn't this year.
7. We do know what they won't be doing - coaching offense.
8. This is typical you. Only one to see things the way you want to. It is like that Kurt Warner video after the Vikings game. You actually watched that and took away from it that Warner thought Mac Jones was the biggest issue with the offense.

I am stating stuff that has been reported by sources. That isn't speculation. Now the sources could be wrong, but that still isn't speculation.