Mac Jones' Last Five Games - 2022 vs 2021

[Ian]

Not a Mac Jones apologist and I really liked what I saw from Zappe

That's sort of the frustrating part about it. The fallout took away the enjoyment in what Zappe did. It's fun watching young QBs develop, which is what made last year interesting and enjoyable despite coming up short. Same thing during the Cassel year in 2008.

You can't have two horses running a race, and it's nice to know you've got him if things turn and potentially end badly, especially since he's under contract for three more years. Otherwise, it would have been just Mac and a lot of uncertainty with only Hoyer behind him.

 

[Ian]

Where do you rank the 2007 New England Patriots on the list of all-time great teams in the history of the NFL?
Then tell me where you rank the 2008 New England Patriots on that same list. And then tell me what the difference was.

With all due respect, this literally may be the worst comparison I've ever seen someone make in my 20+ years of doing this. And that's saying something.

 

[crawhammer]

With all due respect, this literally may be the worst comparison I've ever seen someone make in my 20+ years of doing this. And that's saying something.

You're the one extolling the 2008 season. When they were 3-5 against teams with a winning record. When they scored 10 points less per game than the season prior. When they went from one of the greatest teams of all-time to second place in the division (the only season out of 17 consecutive when they didn't win the division). That's a steep fall for a team that was essentially different by one player.

 

[Ian]

That's a steep fall for a team that was essentially different by one player.

Are you being serious? With a 7th round QB and a guy who hadn't started a game since high school?

Yeah, literally, no one expected an 11-5 finish. This board goes back to when I moved us off the original host at the end of 2005, so that entire season is available for you to see what people were talking about if you want to go back and look (some people actually wanted to keep Cassel and trade Brady, BTW).

That was an incredible job by all involved that year. That season could have been an absolute disaster, yet it wasn't. And the fact we didn't get to see how Cassel might have done in the playoffs remains disappointing. They were playing well down the stretch, and it stinks we didn't get to see how it might have played out.

 

[venecol]

From what I'm reading, most (90%) of the fault for Mac's regression is on the coaching staff. If that's the case, they should all be fired. The entire offensive coaching staff (minus RB) needs to be fired along with the person 100% responsible for wasting an entire season on this debacle. Do I have this right? Fire Belichick. Fire Patricia. Fire Judge. Fire Troy Brown.

OK then.

 

[Ian]

From what I'm reading, most (90%) of the fault for Mac's regression is on the coaching staff. If that's the case, they should all be fired. The entire offensive coaching staff (minus RB) needs to be fired along with the person 100% responsible for wasting an entire season on this debacle. Do I have this right? Fire Belichick. Fire Patricia. Fire Judge. Fire Troy Brown.

OK then.

A little extreme, don't you think? Even if you put it 60/40 percentage-wise (adding another 30% on Mac), that's still 60% which certainly didn't help with his development, correct? I mean, we're going to hit adversity with whoever we have back there. Sort of tough to just keep shoveling through guys 1.5 years (because people wanted Mac gone midway through the year after the Bears game) through each one. And there's certainly been enough film to warrant criticism over what we've seen from Patricia.

 

[crawhammer]

Are you being serious? With a 7th round QB and a guy who hadn't started a game since high school?

Yeah, literally, no one expected an 11-5 finish. This board goes back to when I moved us off the original host at the end of 2005, so that entire season is available for you to see what people are talking about if you want to go back and look (some people actually wanted to keep Cassel and trade Brady, BTW).

That was an incredible job by all involved that year. That season could have been an absolute disaster, yet it wasn't. And the fact we didn't get to see how Cassel might have done in the playoffs remains disappointing. They were playing well down the stretch, and it stinks we didn't get to see how it might have played out.

Yes, totally serious. Go back and look at their competition in 2008. Which of their wins would you say was unexpected? They beat 3 teams with 4 or less wins. They had 1 win against a team with double digit wins. Their schedule was extremely soft. All 5 of their losses were against teams with a winning record. Etc.

And what does some people wanting to keep Cassel and trade the greatest player in the history of the NFL prove? Other than they're complete fools.

 

[Ian]

Yes, totally serious. Go back and look at their competition in 2008. Which of their wins would you say was unexpected?

They had a 7th-round pick lining up under center with zero NFL experience. I love Cassel, but I never saw that coming.

I need you to pick 5 numbers for me for Saturday. Help me out

 

[crawhammer]

From what I'm reading, most (90%) of the fault for Mac's regression is on the coaching staff.

90% doesn't align with Mac playing overall poorly since week 12 of last season. I think the 90% can be dismissed, it's a ridiculous percentage to put on the coaching staff when weighting all of the evidence. That being said, the coaching staff gets enough of the blame to where changes should be considered. Although at least in Patricia's case, he needs to be replaced.

 

[crawhammer]

They had a 7th-round pick lining up under center with zero NFL experience. I love Cassel, but I never saw that coming.

I need you to pick 5 numbers for me for Saturday. Help me out

You didn't answer my question. Which wins?

I'll take your non-answer as an agreement to disagree.

 

[Ian]

You didn't answer my question. Which wins?

I'll take your non-answer as an agreement to disagree.

Which wins? All of them. Literally had no idea how they'd play each week for much of the early part of that season. They never even went on any type of real winning streak until the last four games of the season.

2008 Patriots Schedule - Full Results

The complete 2008 New England Patriots Schedule with Game-by-Game Season Results.

www.patsfans.com

 

[crawhammer]

Which wins? All of them. Literally had no idea how they'd play each week for much of the early part of that season. They never even went on any type of real winning streak until the last four games of the season.

2008 Patriots Schedule - Full Results

The complete 2008 New England Patriots Schedule with Game-by-Game Season Results.

www.patsfans.com

So you considered they might go from 16-0 to 0-16 without Brady? You're a bigger Brady homer than even me.

 

[Ian]

So you considered they might go from 16-0 to 0-16 without Brady? You're a bigger Brady homer than even me.

I would say a better response would have been, I thought they could have just as easily gone 5-11. But if you feel the need to continue being completely ridiculous, I guess that's your prerogative.

 

[crawhammer]

I would say a better response would have been, I thought they could have just as easily gone 5-11. But if you feel the need to continue being completely ridiculous, I guess that's your prerogative.

I tried to end it gracefully but you didn't bite. And you did literally say "all of the wins" were unexpected.

Looking back at that 2008 Patriots roster, and their extremely soft schedule, and knowing Cassel would go onto another 10-5 season with another team, I would say that 10-5 record with the Patriots was just about right.

 

[Ian]

I tried to end it gracefully but you didn't bite. And you did literally say "all of the wins" were unexpected.

Looking back at that 2008 Patriots roster, and their extremely soft schedule, and knowing Cassel would go onto another 10-5 season with another team, I would say that 10-5 record with the Patriots was just about right.

Except they went 11-5 ... so .... (and the Chiefs were 4-12 in 2009, 10-6 in 2010)

 

[Ian]

I tried to end it gracefully but you didn't bite. And you did literally say "all of the wins" were unexpected.

Yes, already said, literally never knew what to expect every week. You interpreting that as me thinking they'd go 0-16 is a little much, but again, you seem to be going from one extreme to the other today for some reason.

 

[Ian]

I tried to end it gracefully but you didn't bite. And you did literally say "all of the wins" were unexpected.

Looking back at that 2008 Patriots roster, and their extremely soft schedule, and knowing Cassel would go onto another 10-5 season with another team, I would say that 10-5 record with the Patriots was just about right.

Hold on, wait, I'm clearly a little slow after re-reading this sentence. So you're saying that because of what happened after 2008, we shouldn't have thought what we thought or have been as surprised about what happened in 2008 before it happened?

 

[borg]

I tried to end it gracefully but you didn't bite. And you did literally say "all of the wins" were unexpected.

For clarification purposes....
all
[ôl]
used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing:

 

[Ian]

For clarification purposes....
all
[ôl]
used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing:

LOL, true, and I also used "literally":

lit·er·al·ly
adverb
in a literal manner or sense; exactly.

My mistake.

 

[crawhammer]

Except they went 11-5 ... so .... (and the Chiefs were 4-12 in 2009, 10-6 in 2010)

Technically 10-5 in Cassel starts. But that aside, it doesn't alter my point.

Hold on, wait, I'm clearly a little slow after re-reading this sentence. So you're saying that because of what happened after 2008, we shouldn't have thought what we thought in 2008 before it happened?

We had more information after Cassel's 10-5 season with KC in 2010. You don't ever reassess once you have more data? You made it sound like Cassel ever going 10-5 is some uniquely astonishing feat. He did again soon after with a lesser team and a different HC.