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List of guys the Patriots will NOT take

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You very well may be walking back to that ledge, Cap'n
This is our beloved Capt. Downer, ledge walker extraordinary. There is absolutely nothing BB could do in this draft that would prevent Capt. Downer's melodramatic suicidal pontification from occurring. It is what it is.
 
Not sure about Ingram, but I would bet you a gigantic Hershey bar that a skill position player goes in the top 75. And to be honest, I feel as though we can use youth and speed in those positions--particularly if you are looking ahead to next year. I believe that we have a bit of a luxury in this draft, with little needs + coming off a 14-2 record.

Brady is still always going to be our greatest asset, and why not surround him with talent too? You already said you don't care for Tate (or aren't 'sold' on him--me neither), and Branch and Welker are due to be UFA's after the season (obviously hoping we keep Welker).

The RB position consists of an overachieving player who may or may not be able to duplicate his success (FWIW--I love him and have stood by him since day one), and a 3rd down back or two. We will almost certainly draft a RB in the first 2 1/2 rounds (your number '75' ).

As far as backup QB--that is the ONLY position that really cannot be replaced, and once again, with a luxury in the draft + a plethora of QB talent, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we took a backup QB in the first 2-3 rounds. Why not?? Especially if there's talent to be had at the position. Why wait for other years when the talent seems to be there now? We have seen great backup QB's groomed under Vets before (see SB winner Rodgers/Favre). Why waste the pick on another Wheatley, Gus Scott, or Garrett Mills who will never make an impact and be lucky to see the field when you can use the pick to grab your future QB + improve on our starting 53 now?? (with a backup QB, or maybe you're sold on Hoyer?)

Yes, yes, yes--we all know about the front 7 woes, and there's an obvious likelihood that BB will take at least ONE if not TWO front 7 picks. But, does Belichick agree with us? (the all knowing fanbase)

He may very well be good with taking his chances with Stroud/Deaderick at RDE, in addition to even signing another free agent when it's time. We already have :

Ty Warren
Wilfork
Brace
Stroud
Pryor
Deaderick
Wright
(possibly G.Warren???--although we 'think' it's doubtful)
Love
Richards
(possible free agent/mid to late round draft pick/possible EARLY pick)

That's a lot of players for 3-4 positions, especially considering how all of the so-called 'experts' on the board told me last year "There's no need to keep SEVEN guys on the DL, we only keep SIX. There's no way, blah, blah, blah"

Yet somehow we kept 7---go figure Regardless, there very well may not be as huge of a need that Belichick sees at the position, although I certainly expect ONE early DE pick
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As far as the LB's go, again, usually not BB's nature to take first round LB'ers. Again, he may feel as though taking ONE earlier pick (by round 2) is PLENTY sufficient, and that with Ty Warren coming back, the addition of Stroud, and an early DE--that may very well be enough to open up the LB'ers, especially a guy like Cunningham....OR, he could also target one in free agency.

-----

As far as the Offensive line goes, it all depends on if Belichick thinks Light will be coming back OR if he's pretty sure that Mankins will play for his 10 million dollar franchise tender (duh?, I think he will). The point is, again, this is another position that may not be as DIRE as we fans think it is. Belichick may feel as though he can add a mid round pick or 2, OR maybe add some mid round picks AND a possible free agent (when he's able)

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The bottom line is that only one man knows what his analysis of the positional needs are, and how HE (not us) intends on addressing those needs. We can only guess as to what he'll do, but in my opinion, our 'needs' are nowhere near what most of the fanbase thinks they are. I think that a lot of posters are so excited to have EARLY draft picks spent on these positions, (and I'm sure there will be a couple--pretty sure ), that they forget that these so-called 'needs' will also be addressed in the mid to later rounds too.

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In my humble opinion, we are a lot closer to being a 14-2 team again than some realize, and in this particular draft, we have the LUXURY of still being able to draft BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE--
-something Bill Belichick is used to. Sure, that will likely include an early DE, and maybe even an early OL, but that does not mean that a RB, WR, or QB cannot/will not be taken in the first 2 1/2 (your magic number of '75') either.

You very well may be walking back to that ledge, Cap'n

You make an excellent arguement in favor of adding at least 1/2 "skill position" players in the first 3 rounds...
...but I still ain't buyin' it.
I also agree with your assessments of former top-100 busts like Wheatley, Tate, Guss Scott, et.al.,
but right now I just don't trust Bill to make the correct decisions at RB & WR with top-100 picks,
esp. with used-car-salesman types like Urban Meyer whispering sweet nothings into his ear.

The next wave of OLmen to protect Brady during the twilight of his career must begin next week;
Light & Koppen won't (or at least shouldn't) be around to see it through to the end.

If Ty Warren isn't already the healthiest he's been in the last 5 years,
then the need for a starting-caliber DE becomes even greater,
because I wouldn't give you a conditional 7th-rounder for the rest of 'em - combined.

And say what you want about the admitted difficulty of projecting 4-3 DEs to 3-4 OLBs,
but you can't win if you don't play...and Bill needs to start playing, early & often.
 
I've now moved far enough from the ledge of the Kissing Tower of Hershey,
that my fingers can reach my computer...But if Bill drafts Mark Ingram
- or any other RB or WR or TE or QB with any of our top-75 picks,
I'm climbing back out there.

I am with you Cap. BB cannot be trusted to draft WRs and RBs; he is a defensive guy. It sort of reminds me of the lame-ass offensive play calling that Parcells used to do... Last year he tried to draft Montario Hardest in the second; luckily Cleveland saved him from himself.

Not only did we get Bethel Tate but also the splintery-rumped Taylor Price.

Also I don't want to see any more money-induced panic picks like Ron "Cheeseburger" Brace.

BTW are you familar with Captain Granitic? A fav of mine from a bygone era when I climbed; unfortunately gravity have a stronger hold on me these days.
 
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This is our beloved Capt. Downer, ledge walker extraordinary. There is absolutely nothing BB could do in this draft that would prevent Capt. Downer's melodramatic suicidal pontification from occurring. It is what it is.

Not true, Mr. Box.

Bill could draft the very best players available, at positions of real need.
Bill could use all of this year's picks This year, not Next year.
And Bill could use his top-75 picks on the following:
- one from Jordan, Watt, Heyward, Wilkerson & Bailey;
- at least one from Kerrigan, Houston, Sheard, Reed & Acho (not yet sold on Ayers);
- one from Smith, Castonzo, Sherrod, Carimi, Pouncey & Watkins,
- and another from Ijalana, Carpenter, Franklin, Wisniewski, Boling, Rackley & Moffitt.

If Bill can manage to come away with at least 4 of the aforementioned names,
then I can finally begin to plant the seeds of hope into my barren soul.
 
I am with you Cap. BB cannot be trusted to draft WRs and RBs; he is a defensive guy. It sort of reminds me of the lame-ass offensive play calling that Parcells used to do... Last year he tried to draft Montario Hardest in the second; luckily Cleveland saved him from himself.

Not only did we get Bethel Tate but also the splintery-rumped Taylor Price.

Also I don't want to see any more money-induced panic picks like Ron "Cheeseburger" Brace.

BTW are you familar with Captain Granitic? A fav of mine from a bygone era when I climbed; unfortunately gravity have a stronger hold on me these days.

Not familiar with Captain Granitic; my moniker came from a Saturday Night Live skit from '86 or '87.

And I agree with you re: Bethel Tate, but I'm not yet writing off Taylor Price
 
Floyd Reese has helped ALOT

I am with you Cap. BB cannot be trusted to draft WRs and RBs; he is a defensive guy. It sort of reminds me of the lame-ass offensive play calling that Parcells used to do... Last year he tried to draft Montario Hardest in the second; luckily Cleveland saved him from himself.

Not only did we get Bethel Tate but also the splintery-rumped Taylor Price.

Also I don't want to see any more money-induced panic picks like Ron "Cheeseburger" Brace.

BTW are you familar with Captain Granitic? A fav of mine from a bygone era when I climbed; unfortunately gravity have a stronger hold on me these days.
 
I am with you Cap. BB cannot be trusted to draft WRs and RBs; he is a defensive guy. It sort of reminds me of the lame-ass offensive play calling that Parcells used to do... Last year he tried to draft Montario Hardest in the second; luckily Cleveland saved him from himself.

Not only did we get Bethel Tate but also the splintery-rumped Taylor Price.

Also I don't want to see any more money-induced panic picks like Ron "Cheeseburger" Brace.

BTW are you familar with Captain Granitic? A fav of mine from a bygone era when I climbed; unfortunately gravity have a stronger hold on me these days.

Cute nickname, but have you ever really looked at what Tate (drafted primarily as a KR) actually accomplished in his rookie season compared to Bethel Johnson?
 
Floyd Reese has helped ALOT

Actually Mr SG I tend to agree with this. Something changed about the time that Reese arrived (and when Pioli left) and the change was for the better. Certainly BB finally figured out how to draft TEs (and how to trade up for them); can we expect a new-found skill for RBs and WRs? Price is not a good sign but he looked quick when I saw him but clearly BB did see enough to play him much. As far as the unforgettable Montario Hardesty we just don't know since he was injured last year.

I get very nervous when I see BB bring in RBs for visits. I just hope he does not pick any until round 3 at least although Ingram will be tempting if he falls deep into the second.

As far as drafting WRs it may be that BB wants the boy-scout humble types (aka Deion Branch) but most good WRs are immature prima donnas. BB just cannot get over that. Maybe there are two tiers of immature prima-donna WRs: the gun-toting-strip-club-shoot-myself WRs and the nominal full-length-fur-coat-wearing prima donna's . Maybe BB has to lower the bar and get some of the latter.
 
I've now moved far enough from the ledge of the Kissing Tower of Hershey,
that my fingers can reach my computer...But if Bill drafts Mark Ingram
- or any other RB or WR or TE or QB with any of our top-75 picks,
I'm climbing back out there.

Why?

Not having a stud RB hurt the Pats offense last season. Look what Mendenhall did you the Jets when they dared Pitt to run.

Pretty solid RBs and WRs can be had in later rounds, but they usually take time to develop. Like BJGE.
 
Why?

Not having a stud RB hurt the Pats offense last season. Look what Mendenhall did you the Jets when they dared Pitt to run.

Pretty solid RBs and WRs can be had in later rounds, but they usually take time to develop. Like BJGE.

Drafting Mark Ingram - or any RB this year before the end of the 3rd round -
would be nothing short of a grotesque waste of precious recources, esp. when
our "talent"(snicker) at OLB is the laughingstock of professional football.
 
Drafting Mark Ingram - or any RB this year before the end of the 3rd round -
would be nothing short of a grotesque waste of precious recources, esp. when
our "talent"(snicker) at OLB is the laughingstock of professional football.

The best defense is a great offense.

Keep the other offense on the bench and your defense rested while building a comfortable lead forcing the other team to become 1 dimensional.

The Pats stall on too many drives. Yes, NE led the NFL in scoring, but it came in bunches like 45 vs the Jets, then weeks later the Pats struggled to score 21 vs NY.

As long as opposing teams do not respect NEs run game, it will be deja vu all over again against teams that are good on pass defense.
 
We have drafted any player because we desparately needed them. That simply isn't belichick's style.

Okay. How about "really could have used them"?

It's been amazingly difficult to find any kind of comprehensive lists of Condon-repped players. For those that I HAVE found, they're all guys that we really had no need of whatsoever (e.g., QBs that went in the top five of the draft).

The claim has been made that the Pats will never take a Condon client and the only "proof" that's offered is that we haven't (plus statements like Rapoport's, because, well, he's ALWAYS 100% correct, right?). That simply is NOT proof. It's like claiming that it's never going to rain again and offering as proof the fact that it hasn't rained in four weeks.
 
Ah... how about your list of Condon-covered players the Patriots drafted since Watson? You go first.

It sucks about Aldon Smith and JJ Watt. Maybe the Patriots will soften their stance with a rookie wage scale or maybe (probably) there won't be any training camp to hold out against (but I guess Mr Rubber can hold them out of the season).

Ummm, no.

Seriously, I'm not the one making a claim/prediction here and then offering as "proof" only that it hasn't happened - as if there's no other possible reason aside from enmity that the Pats haven't drafted or otherwise NOT acquired an available Condon client.

Also, there are probably other agents whose clients we haven't signed since 2004. What does THAT mean? That we don't like those agents? Could it be that we simply didn't like their clients for our team?

I mean, I'd really just like to see two or three names of players who we could have reasonably drafted as BPA who filled at least a minor gap in our roster, but did NOT acquire said player in such a way as to be even somewhat attributable to our bad relationship with Condon. And by "reasonably drafted", I mean I don't think it would be fair to claim that, for example, we could have traded the #24, #28 and #60 in 2007 (the entire top of our draft) to move up to #5 and snag Adrian Peterson, but we didn't because we won't draft Condon clients (NOTE: I have no idea who actually reps Peterson). Also, "thus-and-such free agent NT was available to us for $10M per year in 2008 - but we didn't sign him because he was a Condon client" doesn't really fly, either.

Just two or three names/examples of Condon clients that we even appear to have avoided, is that so much to ask in terms of substantiation?
 
Marcus Cannon - not athletic enough
Adrian Clayborn - too small to play end, too big/doesn't want to play LB
Corey Liuget - too short
Christian Ballard - soft, lacks ball awareness
Any TE in the first two days - stocked there
Any ILB in the first two days - stocked there

Clayborn also has Erbs Palsy
 
This post is like talking about a no hitter during the game. We are now doomed to draft at least two of these guys.
 
Adding to this list the top players that are represented by Tom Condon:

AJ Green
Blaine Gabbert
Aldon Smith
JJ Watt
Anthony Castonzo
Aaron Williams
Marcus Cannon

The No-Condon/CAA tradition still lives on.

The players with the last name starting with "M" does not
 
Add these guys to this list:

Jimmy Smith - character questions
Ryan Mallett - No need and character questions
Chykie Brown/Rashad Carmichael - The two worst tacklers in the draft in space. BB hates guys who cant tackle.
Chris Rucker - this guy spent some time in jail this season! No way we take him.
Brandon Hogan - arrested three times in college
Jonathan Baldwin - attitude/character issues.
Greg Little - maturity, character, attitude, and work ethic questions. Lied to teams at Combine about thew reasons for his ineligibility according to CNNSI.
Edmond Gates - character issues like most guys from Abilene Christian
Terrance Toliver - character questions
DeAndre Brown - character questions
 
The No-Condon/CAA tradition still lives on.

The players with the last name starting with "M" does not

So Anthony Castonzo is covered by the Condon? That explains why we ended up with Solder....
 
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