Kraft regrets giving Belichick so much power without “checks and balances” in place.

[Koma]

Anyone else love The Committee? I love The Committee.
All these checks and balances...thank goodness.

All the collaboration, the checks, the balances, the coach being young enough to relate to the players, all that is so much more important than winning games.

 

[sb1]

This is all nonsense.
He signed Newton not to be a permanent QB, but because they were capped out and there was no one to give money to.
Callahan is right about Bill getting Mac's measure and wanting to move on immediately. He was also right about passing on him for a caretaker QB.

But none of this matters at all since they would've had Maye this year with a semblance and a chance of winning

They franchised Thuney in 2020 and failed to trade Gilmore at his peak value. Rebuilding teams don’t do that. I wish they rebuilt for real back then maybe we’d be back on track now. And would have been much easier to stomach without fans there.

If Bill wanted to move on immediately from Jones and there’s no hard evidence of that anyway, then thats an admission by Bill that he pooched the draft pick. It’s on him for drafting Jones in the first place. Nobody forced him to do that.

There’s no reason to think BB picks Maye either.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ok but they were just 4-5 and just coming off a blowout loss to Houston when Modell made the announcement. Already gave up quite a few points. The trend was already down… implying that the announcement derailed the whole season feels like a reach...

No. Rumors were already circulating inside the team early Oct they were moving.

BB asked Modell about it and he lied to his face.

 

[XLIX]

Ignorant, ignorant, ignorant...Can't even admit it you were wrong.

 

[XLIX]

This is all nonsense.
He signed Newton not to be a permanent QB, but because they were capped out and there was no one to give money to.

He signed Newton because, despite how much he wanted to get rid of Brady, he had absolutely no plan whatsoever to replace him.

So with no plan in place, and 3 months into free agency, the "football genius" decided to sign the guy who was still a free agent because absolutely no other team in the NFL was even remotely interested in him.

 

[lancerman]

Brady also had 20 years behind a top 10 defense, a top 5 offensive line, and a top 3 special teams unit. Let’s quit pretending he did it all by himself; he didn’t. He was drafted in the 6th round for a reason. Go ask Dean Pees how much time Belichick spent with Brady teaching him how to read a defense. People seem to forget Belichick coached in the league for 25 years before Brady. Where are all Bill’s peers talking about how overrated he was? The dude’s been coaching at the NFL level for over half a century. I’d love to see what his naysayer’s resumes look like and what they;be been doing on Sundays the last 50 years. The ignorance is astounding. The guy has forgotten more about football than you, me, and anyone else who wants to **** talk him will ever know. No one has had more impact on the game in the salary cap era than Belichick.

Brady didn't do it all by himself. Brady however was the primary driver and factor for the success we had. You could have thrown in any other QB from the era Brady played and you could cut our SB output in half immediately. Bill made a lot of contributions, but we know what he is when you take Brady away. And his firing was more than justified.

 

[lancerman]

Thing with Brady is that you have to have a system for him. He’s the GOAT because of his ability to read the play before the snap. He’s not an improviser. You absolutely need to protect him. That’s just reality. We’re talking about an old school pocket QB here. He lasted as long as he did in this league because he was protected by great o-lines, not wild gooseberry potions Alex Guerrero mixed up for him. If you think any of these run and gun QB’s that are all over today’s league are gonna last 20+ years like Brady, you’ll be sorely disappointed. Look at all the weapons he had in Tampa Bay. What happened when his o-line broke down? One guy can only do so much, even the GOAT.

Actually Brady was one of the best post snap read QB's ever if not the outright best. He wasn't an improviser mid play, but before the snap he already usually had you beat. And yes he's not a scrambler or running QB, but he was had the best pocket presence and movement of any QB ever. Brady usually accomplished more with two or three steps in the pocket than many QB's could running laterally 10 yards to try to extend a play.

 

[upstater1]

They franchised Thuney in 2020 and failed to trade Gilmore at his peak value. Rebuilding teams don’t do that. I wish they rebuilt for real back then maybe we’d be back on track now. And would have been much easier to stomach without fans there.

If Bill wanted to move on immediately from Jones and there’s no hard evidence of that anyway, then thats an admission by Bill that he pooched the draft pick. It’s on him for drafting Jones in the first place. Nobody forced him to do that.

There’s no reason to think BB picks Maye either.

Why trade Gilmore at his peak? I dont get it. You're talking before his injury?

They were rebuilding in 2020. They were over the cap. They decided to take the hit that year with a very weak team personnel wise. Plus it was the Covid year. Effectively it was the beginning of the rebuild.

Callahan reported that, one, Belichick preferred to take a guy like Davis Mills in the 3rd round. Two, also reported he wanted to move on from Mac long before last yr.

Your buddy Kraft wanted consensus in the draft room. It's obvious that most of these picks are Wolf's guys, since he's still making the same mistakes he has the last several years.

 

[upstater1]

Brady didn't do it all by himself. Brady however was the primary driver and factor for the success we had. You could have thrown in any other QB from the era Brady played and you could cut our SB output in half immediately. Bill made a lot of contributions, but we know what he is when you take Brady away. And his firing was more than justified.

Lame.

The team was old. Needed to be rebuilt.

I wonder if some of you were around when this team added Belichick as DC in 1996 and he made the instant difference.

 

[mrbean]

Brady didn't do it all by himself. Brady however was the primary driver and factor for the success we had. You could have thrown in any other QB from the era Brady played and you could cut our SB output in half immediately. Bill made a lot of contributions, but we know what he is when you take Brady away. And his firing was more than justified.

There’s a flip side to that coin. Brady would have never gotten six with any other coach. You’re right about knowing what he is without Brady….I still remember them carrying him off the field after winning two SB’s in New York. If you think Belichick isn’t **** without Brady, I don’t know what to tell you. Again, where are all of Bill’s peers for the last 50 years talking about what a **** coach he was? Who put together those o-lines Brady played behind? How about those defenses? Special teams units? Go put Brady on the Washington Commanders for the last 20 years and tell me he’d get 6.

 

[Kasmir]

Belichick the coach has never been the problem. Belichick the GM is the problem.

Nah, Bill comprehensively managed the team superbly well through most of his time here. Few can compare with what he achieved with his total control of football in New England.

But Bill became too self indulgent and actually came to believe in his own infallibility. He believed he had earned his deification, thought he was so great that he could win with just the players he liked and with coaches and staff who were his friends and family.

And most tragically of all, he decided he'd show the world that he could win without Brady, that he could have done just as well with any other first-tier QB.

Well that didn't turn out well for him when Brady won without him while Bill struggled with Cam Newton and Mac Jones and inept coaching and management by his cronies.

Pure, classical hubris. Bill's arrogance brought about his doom.

But he was still the GOAT in running a professional football team.

 

[upstater1]

Nah, Bill comprehensively managed the team superbly well through most of his time here. Few can compare with what he achieved with his total control of football in New England.

But Bill became too self indulgent and actually came to believe in his own infallibility. He believed he had earned his deification, thought he was so great that he could win with just the players he liked and with coaches and staff who were his friends and family.

And most tragically of all, he decided he'd show the world that he could win without Brady, that he could have done just as well with any other first-tier QB.

Well that didn't turn out well for him when Brady won without him while Bill struggled with Cam Newton and Mac Jones and inept coaching and management by his cronies.

Pure, classical hubris. Bill's arrogance brought about his doom.

But he was still the GOAT in running a professional football team.

You really believe he thought he could win with 3rd string QBs at best?

I'd say he's proven he could win with QBs other than Brady (Testaverde, Cassel) but he's hardly had a chance (2 years) to prove anything when he was not rebuilding a team. Cleveland and New England were rebuilds. In the NFL, they went with Cam because they had $1m in salary to pay.

 

[Kasmir]

You really believe he thought he could win with 3rd string QBs at best?

I'd say he's proven he could win with QBs other than Brady (Testaverde, Cassel) but he's hardly had a chance (2 years) to prove anything when he was not rebuilding a team. Cleveland and New England were rebuilds. In the NFL, they went with Cam because they had $1m in salary to pay.

Cam had been an MVP. Coming out of college, Mac looked like he might be the system QB that many had derided early Brady as being.

I have no doubts that Bill still believes he could have done just as well with Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning.

 

[upstater1]

Cam had been an MVP. Coming out of college, Mac looked like he might be the system QB that many had derided early Brady as being.

I have no doubts that Bill still believes he could have done just as well with Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning.

Cam was toasted. His shoulder was ripped apart. He threw the ball like a shotput. What good is a QB who can't throw? There's a reason he was available for 1 million.

Mac was good before he was scouted. Once he was scouted, it was over for him. Go back and look at the results (losses) and stats (bad 50/50 TD to INT ratio) in the last 1/3rd of his rookie season. They had figured him out. He lived over the middle. He could not throw an out. So they flooded the middle of the field with defenders. Then he got jittery and scared. By the time early the next year when he broke his ankle and reacted the way he did, Belichick had seen enough.

Callahan wrote that the team refused to move on from Mac Jones as Belichick wanted. That's not on Belichick.

 

[Kasmir]

Cam was toasted. His shoulder was ripped apart. He threw the ball like a shotput. What good is a QB who can't throw? There's a reason he was available for 1 million.

Mac was good before he was scouted. Once he was scouted, it was over for him. Go back and look at the results (losses) and stats (bad 50/50 TD to INT ratio) in the last 1/3rd of his rookie season. They had figured him out. He lived over the middle. He could not throw an out. So they flooded the middle of the field with defenders. Then he got jittery and scared. By the time early the next year when he broke his ankle and reacted the way he did, Belichick had seen enough.

Callahan wrote that the team refused to move on from Mac Jones as Belichick wanted. That's not on Belichick.

I think Bill in his arrogance -- and desperation -- believed that he could resurrect Cam well enough that he might be able to win with a great defense and a run-first offense.

I agree that Bill wasn't completely sold on the Mac pick, but in 2021 with McDaniels coaching him he was by far the best in his draft class and the team was actually considered Superbowl favorites by many at the 3/4 mark in the season.

I'm actually not convinced by the narrative that Mac failed because he was "scouted" I think he failed because of unbelievable inept coaching, poor talent and his panic-prone temperament. Otherwise, Mac is likely more talented than Brock Purdy, and would have done at least as well if he had gone to SF, although his physical cowardice would still have been a ticking time bomb.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not applicable. I'm not the one who refuses to acknowledge history.

Dozens of teams have made the SB after reaching the divisionals the previous year. Look it up.

Hard to do when your owner wants to move the team...

 

[upstater1]

I think Bill in his arrogance -- and desperation -- believed that he could resurrect Cam well enough that he might be able to win with a great defense and a run-first offense.

I agree that Bill wasn't completely sold on the Mac pick, but in 2021 with McDaniels coaching him he was by far the best in his draft class and the team was actually considered Superbowl favorites by many at the 3/4 mark in the season.

I'm actually not convinced by the narrative that Mac failed because he was "scouted" I think he failed because of unbelievable inept coaching, poor talent and his panic-prone temperament. Otherwise, Mac is likely more talented than Brock Purdy, and would have done at least as well if he had gone to SF, although his physical cowardice would still have been a ticking time bomb.

They paid Cam $1m!!!

They didn't sign any FAs because they had no money!

Belichick was completely open about what was going on. It's not any secret.

You call normal planning arrogance and it shows how entitled Patriots fans are that the team spent everything it had to go to 5 Super Bowls with that second dynasty era Patriots team and in the end they were left with vapor, as if Belichick was unaware that the team had suffered a severe talent depletion and also killed their cap!?!?

We all know what the plan was. They stuffed all the bad contracts into 2020. It was obvious. Look at the cap hits.

The idea that he thought he was going to return to glory with Cam Newton was preposterous.

Let me show you how crazy this is: Newton signed with the Patriots in early July!!

Not even before OTAs and minicamp.

 

[sb1]

Why trade Gilmore at his peak? I dont get it. You're talking before his injury?

Yes. That's what rebuilding teams do. Trade assets and big money players for draft picks. Why keep a 30 year old Gilmore if you're rebuilding? His peak with us was right after 2019.

They were rebuilding in 2020.

Their actions told a different story.

They were over the cap. They decided to take the hit that year with a very weak team personnel wise. Plus it was the Covid year. Effectively it was the beginning of the rebuild.

That's right it was the Covid year so all the more reason why the rebuild should have started then.

Franchising Thuney and keeping Gilmore are good moves if you're trying to compete. That's fine but don't call it a rebuild.

Callahan reported that, one, Belichick preferred to take a guy like Davis Mills in the 3rd round. Two, also reported he wanted to move on from Mac long before last yr.

Bill picked Mac Jones. Doesn't matter what his preference was. He was the GM. If he decided it was a bad pick that's on him too.

Your buddy Kraft wanted consensus in the draft room. It's obvious that most of these picks are Wolf's guys, since he's still making the same mistakes he has the last several years.

"My buddy"

The consensus was not the GM. Wolf was not the GM. Bill was. If Bill picked Mac Jones and he did, he is his responsibility and nobody else's. Full stop. It's really weird that the Bill defenders die on that hill cause there was nothing wrong with picking Jones. It's what happened after especially starting year 2 that things went sideways. And if he was out on Mac right away, he would have picked up someone better than Bailey Zappe to compete with Jones.

 

[upstater1]

Let me ask you all a question about Robert Kraft.

This is a hypothetical.

Imagine Kraft hired a coach who in his 5th year won a Super Bowl for the Patriots.

After that, the team futzed around a little bit before they went into a big swoon about 5 years later. Over 3 years, that team won as many games as the Patriots won under Belichick in his last 3 years (22).

During this later period, the coach goes 10 years while winning only 1 playoff game.

Does this coach survive the post Super Bowl winning decade if Robert Kraft is the owner?

Yes. That's what rebuilding teams do. Trade assets and big money players for draft picks. Why keep a 30 year old Gilmore if you're rebuilding? His peak with us was right after 2019.

No they weren't.


That's right it was the Covid year so all the more reason why the rebuild should have started then.

Franchising Thuney and keeping Gilmore are good moves if you're trying to compete. That's fine but don't call it a rebuild.

Bill picked Mac Jones. Doesn't matter what his preference was. He was the GM. If he decided it was a bad pick that's on him too.

"My buddy"

The consensus was not the GM. Wolf was not the GM. Bill was. If Bill picked Mac Jones and he did, he is his responsibility and nobody else's. Full stop. It's really weird that the Bill defenders die on that hill cause there was nothing wrong with picking Jones. It's what happened after especially starting year 2 that things went sideways. And if he was out on Mac right away, he would have picked up someone better than Bailey Zappe to compete with Jones.

It was a rebuild. They couldn't go out and get people though because of the cap. For the first time ever, Belichick talked about the fact that the team org was not able to address the quality of play on the field because they were strapped. I can't even understand what you're arguing here: you thought Belichick believed they would compete for the playoffs or more with that team? Really? Signing your starting QB in July for $1m is basically everything you need to know about the "plans" for that year.

The Patriots knew the old players were on their way out (Hightower and some others didn't even play!) while deciding to take the cap hit in '20 so that they could make a big splash in FA in '21 because they knew teams would be well over the cap due to the Covid revenue implosion.

This was the obvious plan.

As for the last part, we've been over that. It's well known we disagree.

 

[sb1]

I'm actually not convinced by the narrative that Mac failed because he was "scouted" I think he failed because of unbelievable inept coaching, poor talent and his panic-prone temperament. Otherwise, Mac is likely more talented than Brock Purdy, and would have done at least as well if he had gone to SF, although his physical cowardice would still have been a ticking time bomb.

Agreed.

And if he was "scouted" it's not only up to him to adjust it was up to the coaches to notice that and coach him up. Hard to do that when your offensive coaches are two hired bozos in the HC's circle of trust who had no business being in those positions. They were so amazing in their jobs that both are no longer in the NFL. Bill's arrogance here was hiring them to those positions in the first place and that's where he lost me for good.