Kraft kept this team here.......Thanks!!

[shmessy]

Oooooooooooooooooooooops.

Orthwein hired Parcells.

Building CMGI Field, yes - quite profitable.

But the interfering continued from Parcells to Carroll to Belichick; took several seasons to get him to keep his claws at bay...Belichick's a patient guy. Hey, he's still waiting for our real logo to be put back on our helmets.

Aha, you ARE a troll.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Is that some sort of Onion article or are you a NY fan coming here to troll? Dude was a 25 year season ticket holder before he bought the team. "Expansion team"? "Zero history"? "Fandom"? "Tradition, history, pride"??

Was there a Patriots Hall before Kraft?

You must think the moon is made out of cheese.

...a 25-year season ticket holder who apparently wasn't at the game in '79 when everyone present booed Proto-Elvis out of the stadium.

A Patriots Hall with Julius Adams, Russ Francis and Raymond Clayborn not in it.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Aha, you ARE a troll.

...a lifelong Patriots fan, who cites facts kind of troll.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

But on the whole he's been a great owner, certainly one of the best in Boston professional sports scene, maybe THE best.

Walter Brown. Deservedly in both the NHL & NBA (which he founded, along with the Celtics) HOF's, you won't see titles or trophies listed in his personal "executive" bio.

 

[shmessy]

...a 25-year season ticket holder who apparently wasn't at the game in '79 when everyone present booed Proto-Elvis out of the stadium.

A Patriots Hall with Julius Adams, Russ Francis and Raymond Clayborn not in it.

He doesn't choose 'em, troll.

Here's the committee that does:
Ernie Adams Football staff
Ron Borges Boston Herald
Gil Santos Former Radio voice and Hall of Famer
**** Cerasuolo Retired from Worcester Telegram and Gazette
Tom Curran Comcast.com
Jim Donaldson Providence Journal
Mark Farinella Attleboro Sun
Glen Farley Brockton Enterprise
Fred Kirsch Patriots Football Network
John Hendry Statistician
Ron Hobson Retired from The Patriot Ledger
Carlo Imelio Retired from Springfield Union News
Steve Burton WBZ TV
Bryan Morry The Hall at Patriot Place presented by Raytheon
Paul Perillo Patriots Football Weekly
Chris Price WEEI.com
Mike Reiss ESPNBoston.com
Matt Smith Patriots Football Network
Mike Lynch WCVB
Andre Tippett Alumni
Howard Ulman Associated Press

Each spring a Hall of Fame committee consisting of mostly media and Patriots alumni gather at The Hall at Patriot Place presented by Raytheon to nominate players to be the next Hall inductee. A candidate must be four years removed from his playing/coaching career to be eligible for induction. Committee members are permitted time to nominate a candidate of their choice and explain why that player should be considered. At the end of that process, each committee member votes for his/her top three choices with 5 points for the first choice, 3 for the second and 1 for the third. Those finishing in the top three in points are then placed on the final ballot, which is announced and then voted on by fans via www.patriots.com.

Hall of Fame | The Hall at Patriot Place

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

He doesn't choose 'em, troll.

Here's the committee that does:
Ernie Adams Football staff
Ron Borges Boston Herald
Gil Santos Former Radio voice and Hall of Famer
**** Cerasuolo Retired from Worcester Telegram and Gazette
Tom Curran Comcast.com
Jim Donaldson Providence Journal
Mark Farinella Attleboro Sun
Glen Farley Brockton Enterprise
Fred Kirsch Patriots Football Network
John Hendry Statistician
Ron Hobson Retired from The Patriot Ledger
Carlo Imelio Retired from Springfield Union News
Steve Burton WBZ TV
Bryan Morry The Hall at Patriot Place presented by Raytheon
Paul Perillo Patriots Football Weekly
Chris Price WEEI.com
Mike Reiss ESPNBoston.com
Matt Smith Patriots Football Network
Mike Lynch WCVB
Andre Tippett Alumni
Howard Ulman Associated Press

Each spring a Hall of Fame committee consisting of mostly media and Patriots alumni gather at The Hall at Patriot Place presented by Raytheon to nominate players to be the next Hall inductee. A candidate must be four years removed from his playing/coaching career to be eligible for induction. Committee members are permitted time to nominate a candidate of their choice and explain why that player should be considered. At the end of that process, each committee member votes for his/her top three choices with 5 points for the first choice, 3 for the second and 1 for the third. Those finishing in the top three in points are then placed on the final ballot, which is announced and then voted on by fans via www.patriots.com.

Hall of Fame | The Hall at Patriot Place

Thanks...the owner of the team has no control/say over any of it...

And, online fans are the best judges...Ben Coates, Drew Bledsoe, Tedy Bruschi, Ty Law, Willie McGinest and Kevin Faulk are in...any online fans in Green Bay know who Lombardi, Starr or Kramer are?

 

[shmessy]

Thanks...the owner of the team has no control/say over any of it...

And, online fans are the best judges...Ben Coates, Drew Bledsoe, Tedy Bruschi, Ty Law, Willie McGinest and Kevin Faulk are in...any online fans in Green Bay know who Lombardi, Starr or Kramer are?

Lombardi, Starr, Kramer are players and coaches who won Super Bowls.

But yes, Francis and Clayborn should be in.

Your idiotic statement claiming they are chosen by Kraft, of course, is what it is.

Oh, for the days of the Sullivans, huh, troll? (BTW, the owners who actually DID switch from Phil Bissell's Pat Patriot to Elvis, and who never honored former Patriots with a Hall of Fame).

 

[shmessy]

Walter Brown. Deservedly in both the NHL & NBA (which he founded, along with the Celtics) HOF's, you won't see titles or trophies listed in his personal "executive" bio.

That's because he died 30 years before the internet, genius.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Lombardi, Starr, Kramer are players and coaches who won Super Bowls.

But yes, Francis and Clayborn should be in.

Your idiotic statement claiming they are chosen by Kraft, of course, is what it is.

Oh, for the days of the Sullivans, huh, troll? (BTW, the owners who actually DID switch from Phil Bissell's Pat Patriot to Elvis, and who never honored former Patriots with a Hall of Fame).

So winning a Super Bowl is a prerequisite for being accorded a team's second highest honor.

Adams is more deserving of induction than Francis, Clayborn and the six guys I mentioned above.

Again, you're saying the team's owner has zero control over any of the process or decisions...

Finally (for those reading this who are paying attention, anyway) one could surmise that Kraft went along with the logo defilement so as not to make waves with Orthwein, who didn't make his final buyout offer to move the team until a year later; except that Kraft completely trumpeted and ran with the flying elvis (which he himself picked out) since his purchase.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

That's because he died 30 years before the internet, genius.

I get it; it's good to be egomaniacal, ignorant, selfish and short sighted.

 

[shmessy]

I get it; it's good to be egomaniacal, ignorant and short sighted.

Every executive bio on the planet lists someone's achievements.

Lemme guess, you haven't left your house since 1959 have you?

 

[RayClay]

Kraft made his share of blunders, most notably trusting Goodel during spygate and caving to him during deflategate. Those aren't minor errors, given they affected the legacy of the team.....his team.

But on the whole he's been a great owner, certainly one of the best in Boston professional sports scene, maybe THE best. He has run this team effectively since the day he bought it. The Pats were a relative success during the 90's as well. People forget that because they experienced some ups and down like most teams did, but there were mostly ups. The success they've had since the turn of the century will be legendary because it is likely to continue going forward.

However I would add this. If Kraft had failed to keep Orthwein from taking the Pats to St Louis, I have no doubt that wouldn't have ended professional football in NE. The TV market and sports market is just too big for the NFL not to have a presence here. It might have been by expansion or another team's move, but within 5 years there WOULD have been another team here.

Not without a better stadium.

 

[Wordsmyth]

The ultimate irony: the Patriots defeating the (then) St. Louis Rams to begin their dynasty. BOOYA!

 

[farn]

I'm sorry, but that is an ignorant statement.

The Patriots are here because of him and not in St Louis or LA.

Belichick is here because of him instead of NY or Oakland.

As a result, without Kraft there aren't 4 shiny Lombardis sitting in a non-descript Massachusetts town on a honky tonk road lined with tire shops.

I get it : he kept the team in NE.

He also got lucky with BB. The coaches and players did all the work to win those SBs and he was lucky to get the greatest coach in the history of the league.

You MAY choose to believe he studied hard and relentlessly pursued BB and that he is the reason NE has been a successful franchise. My opinion is that he got lucky with BB and once the coach started rolling, it didn't take much to keep him onboard.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I get it : he kept the team in NE.

He also got lucky with BB. The coaches and players did all the work to win those SBs and he was lucky to get the greatest coach in the history of the league.

You MAY choose to believe he studied hard and relentlessly pursued BB and that he is the reason NE has been a successful franchise. My opinion is that he got lucky with BB and once the coach started rolling, it didn't take much to keep him onboard.

BB wanted to be here. And he had a rapport with Kraft [I am NOT complaining about Tuna not being on the flight home from Nawlins]. Exactly WHO was Bob going to hire if he refused to give up the draft pick?

So Kraft deserves some credit.

But, apparently not one person in all these years has stood up to him and said, Hey, Bob: Orthwein, Tagliabue, Goodell et al. are not your friends. In fact they're the opposite.

No shame in it, it happens to everybody, including none other than Bobby Orr, who remained staunchly loyal to crooked Alan Eagleson and by the time Bobby opened his eyes and saw the truth he'd lost a personal fortune and finished his career with the Black Hawks.

 

[shmessy]

BB wanted to be here. And he had a rapport with Kraft [I am NOT complaining about Tuna not being on the flight home from Nawlins]. Exactly WHO was Bob going to hire if he refused to give up the draft pick?

So Kraft deserves some credit.

But, apparently not one person in all these years has stood up to him and said, Hey, Bob: Orthwein, Tagliabue, Goodell et al. are not your friends. In fact they're the opposite.

No shame in it, it happens to everybody, including none other than Bobby Orr, who remained staunchly loyal to crooked Alan Eagleson and by the time Bobby opened his eyes and saw the truth he'd lost a personal fortune and finished his career with the Black Hawks.

Now, THERE is a more rational, reality-based post on the subject. I'm glad you sobered up this morning......you should see what you were posting last night.

Over 23 years, there are a few things Kraft has screwed up. Defamegate, not giving Peter Carroll control over the back stairs to Bobby Grier's office, etc.

But measure what his 23 years are versus ANY owner in the NFL and 2nd place is not even in the same solar system. Let's face facts. New England pre-1994 was NOT a hotbed of professional football fans. This corner was ice cold compared to other areas of the country regarding football in general and the NFL in particular. Those of us who lived and died with the pre-1994 teams are fewer than some west coast MSL soccer fanbases today.

Within 2 weeks of buying the team, the New England Patriots sold out the season tickets for Sullivan Stadium and sold more tickets than when Parcells was hired or when Bledsoe was drafted.

1994 - until the day BB came here or the day Brady was drafted was already the most successful and popular 7 year period until that point for this franchise and professional football in New England. Long-term stability (something the franchise truly never had until that point) had already been achieved. The footings and pipes for the new stadium were already in the ground (after the ridiculous debates in Southie to keep him out) when BB strode in for his first press conference.

BB/Brady accelerated that and built a masterpiece of architecture from what had been a remarkable save and stabilization of the foundation.

Some of the pink hats who don't understand or remember what the New England Patriots were to the NFL (or even to the majority of New Englanders who saw the team as #4 in the local rankings - and #3 was waaaaay ahead) until January 1994 will never understand.

 

[shmessy]

I get it : he kept the team in NE.

He also got lucky with BB. The coaches and players did all the work to win those SBs and he was lucky to get the greatest coach in the history of the league.

You MAY choose to believe he studied hard and relentlessly pursued BB and that he is the reason NE has been a successful franchise. My opinion is that he got lucky with BB and once the coach started rolling, it didn't take much to keep him onboard.

Compare the 7 years of 1987-1993 to the 7 years of 1994-2000 in the areas of football on the field and this franchise off the field.

After you Google that, or your dad tells you about it, come back to us and let us know what you learned about how "lucky" Bob Kraft was and how he didn't do anything until BB fell into his lap unknowingly.

Honestly, the ignorance of some people.........

.

 

[farn]

Compare the 7 years of 1987-1993 to the 7 years of 1994-2000 in the areas of football on the field and this franchise off the field.

After you Google that, or your dad tells you about it, come back to us and let us know what you learned about how "lucky" Bob Kraft was and how he didn't do anything until BB fell into his lap unknowingly.

Honestly, the ignorance of some people.........

.

The blindness of others... another owners' stupidity doesn't make Kraft great. Just because previous owners sucked, that alone doesn't mean anything. Kraft getting lucky on BB made the Patriots great.

 

[shmessy]

Walter Brown. Deservedly in both the NHL & NBA (which he founded, along with the Celtics) HOF's, you won't see titles or trophies listed in his personal "executive" bio.

Ooooooh, sorry, but you could not be FARTHER from the truth on that post!!!!

Too bad you tried that here...........



From the 1962-1963 Official Boston Celtics Yearbook:

"Walter A. Brown

Do events make the man, or does man bring about the events? When it comes to professional basketball, there's no question that the game enjoys its lofty position today largely because of the pioneering and deep thinking of Walter A. Brown, President and half-owner of the world champion Boston Celtics........Walter Brown has every reason to feel proud of his basketball achievements and innovations. He inaugurated the annual East-West all-star game in 1951 over the stubborn opposition of his fellow owners........Thus, it is no surprise to learn that he holds a lofty position in all fields of athletics......He has acquaintances all over the nation....."

etc.

.....and, of course, his mother loved him very much.

Look, there is an excellent argument to be made that Walter Brown was the greatest owner in any US sport ever. However, the statement you made in your above post can be proven ridiculous in any Celtics yearbook from the late 50's to mid 60's when he died. I have a few from back then when my dad covered the team for a few wire services. And yes, he revered Mr. Brown whom he still thinks of as a saint.....but your historic revisionism regarding "executive bios" was too rich for me not to bring some reality back to your discussion.

Whatever is written about Mr. Kraft in any Patriots yearbook is simply not going to be any more purple in prose than what the Celtics yearbooks had for Mr. Brown.

They were both great and no write-ups of the boss by either Howie McHugh nor Stacey James is going to change any minds in the public.

 

[shmessy]

The blindness of others... another owners' stupidity doesn't make Kraft great. Just because previous owners sucked, that alone doesn't mean anything. Kraft getting lucky on BB made the Patriots great.

OK, thank you for waving the white flag of obvious trolling now.

You were given facts....and most people here already know those facts.

Maybe you can pull that off on the Boston Globe messageboards (where the pink hat Sox fans are hypnotized by Shank and will argue with you that it was PARCELLS who is responsible for the Patriots being where they are today!), but people here know too much for you to pull that off here.

Were it not for Robert Kraft, you and I are not typing this morning on this website.

.