Kraft comments on Patriots are cheap storyline.

[upstater1]

Yes it is. Spreading out the cap hit and increasing cash spent up front is a conscious decision. Not sure why you don't think it is.

Those two issues are correct but we can still spend future cash dollars or not, which requires greater upfront cash. You are pointing out details without addressing the larger overarching spending decision. Borrowing $50M to $100M from future years does not negate having a strong middle class or incentives.

We can do that now. No reason to wait. Look at the defensive FA market - very strong this year. If we wait the perfect scenario may never arrive.

Yes now. Ideally the team is good every year, and the team should strike when the FA market is strong. Sign a lot of defensive FA players and draft all offense for 2 years. We will be back in the Championship game if management picks the right QB. Look at the Texans. Waiting around is for losers - literally for losers.

If you're over the cap, you can't dole out bonuses for that year. You can only rewrite contracts and push money further into the future. This is -- in effect -- a guarantee. It is the VERY OPPOSITE of what I'm talking about. A guarantee is the opposite of an incentive. Unless an agent represented a bunch of middle class players, they would hate Belichick's system since the money is lower in guarantees, and it only arrives upon performance.

The word frugal to me means you're tight with cash. It lacks any strategic motivation, which is what I described in my 2 philosophies. That's why I said it's not a matter of frugality.

 

[upstater1]

Because he helped push Brady out of the door who proceeded to win a Super Bowl in Tampa. And his team went into the tank and became a bottom feeder franchise.

It’s that simple, nothing to do with Donald Trump.

I agree, but that's why I always say Patriot fans are spoiled rotten.

 

[mike_usagisan]

There is a school of thought that says "Look only at the cash - the rest is smoke and mirrors."

Explaining how NFL salary cap works and debunking three myths - Sports Illustrated

Andrew Brandt puts on his professor hat to clear up some myths about cash vs. cap, stars taking less money to help the team and more.

www.si.com

Whether it was Bill or Kraft we'll never know, but the Pats have had among the lowest payrolls in the League, and we can see the results.

You mean six Super Bowls and then a rough patch of a few years? It seems like this suggests that the approach has both good and bad results. Shrug.

 

[Steve102]

And you know the conversations between BB and RK? How is that?

Why do I have to know the conversations? Bill said the buck stopped with him. Kraft said the buck stopped with Bill.

Take everyone at face value, and then make analysis, which we have the benefit of with hindsight now. I don't think it's that difficult.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I think we agree except you want to wait, no reason to wiat. Spend this years cap and future cap years right now. Draft smart and we will be back in 2024 and 2025 just like the Texans. We only need the right QB.

I think that's a fine philosophy, just that I disagree.

To me, spending your future cap is a one time bonus. After that, you have to do it, to push the can down the road. So spend the future cap when you need to keep the window open. We don't even have a window right now. If we get the QB right, that's the time to spend. Until we do, you're just burning it on the hope that the window is going to open.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Because he helped push Brady out of the door who proceeded to win a Super Bowl in Tampa. And his team went into the tank and became a bottom feeder franchise.

It’s that simple, nothing to do with Donald Trump.

RK helped push Brady out the door too. RK is on record he met with Brady at his house like always and Brady walked out without signing the contract. RK could have changed the contract. But the BB hate is much stronger than the RK hate - listen to talk radio. Your explanation does not hold water.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If you're over the cap, you can't dole out bonuses for that year. You can only rewrite contracts and push money further into the future. This is -- in effect -- a guarantee. It is the VERY OPPOSITE of what I'm talking about. A guarantee is the opposite of an incentive. Unless an agent represented a bunch of middle class players, they would hate Belichick's system since the money is lower in guarantees, and it only arrives upon performance.

The word frugal to me means you're tight with cash. It lacks any strategic motivation, which is what I described in my 2 philosophies. That's why I said it's not a matter of frugality.

I agree with all that, but the Pats can plan to spend more cash by 1. spreading contracts into more years, or 2. spreading contracts into fewer years. That decision can be made independent and before everything you are discussing. The contract years and guarantees are not dependent activities like it appears you are saying.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Spending to spend isn’t always a good thing.

Reiss pointed out the Pats had spent the least over the last 10 years. Aside from Chandler Jones and Joe Thuney, those were the only players they let go who were worthy of big second contracts. I’d even throw in JC Jackson based on his production in NE pre injury.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Why do I have to know the conversations? Bill said the buck stopped with him. Kraft said the buck stopped with Bill.

Take everyone at face value, and then make analysis, which we have the benefit of with hindsight now. I don't think it's that difficult.

We know this to not be true. You cherry pick. Kraft is on record stating he asked Brady to take less with each contract and personally guaranteed Tom that he, RK, would spend the extra money on other players. Kraft abviously controlled the purse strings to some degree or he would not tell that story (promising Brady what he would spend with the extra savings Tom provided).

I agree. This is not difficult.

 

[Kdo5]

RK helped push Brady out the door too. RK is on record he met with Brady at his house like always and Brady walked out without signing the contract. RK could have changed the contract. But the BB hate is much stronger than the RK hate - listen to talk radio. Your explanation does not hold water.

My explanation holds all of the water. You are creating a narrative out of thin air with a strange political point you are attempting to shoehorn into this discussion.

BB and TB were the faces of the dynasty. RK publicly has always been the background figure to those two guys. Bill was always going to be the one who took the most heat for that simple reason, plus the animosity between HC and QB was widely reported before and after he left. Don’t overthink it.

 

[Clonamery]

Why do I have to know the conversations? Bill said the buck stopped with him. Kraft said the buck stopped with Bill.

Take everyone at face value, and then make analysis, which we have the benefit of with hindsight now. I don't think it's that difficult.

Your belief is like a fart in the wind.

 

[Real fan 02]

Why now? Because Lombardi in his fight with Felger let that slip as an excuse for Bill. He said point blank that Belichick was constrained by one of the lowest payrolls in the league. And EVERYONE knows Lombardi speaks for Bill.

Absolutely agree! Ownership knows FA is around the corner after Sunday is a dead time in the NFL until March 15th. So this is subtile message for potential FAs I feel. However the positive I take is that Ownership knows they have to spend no more Bill to hide behind. They might even have to over pay a bit. However all that matters is we get some game changers in here. I'm pretty surprised they have already started re-upping guys they want around.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think that's a fine philosophy, just that I disagree.

To me, spending your future cap is a one time bonus. After that, you have to do it, to push the can down the road. So spend the future cap when you need to keep the window open. We don't even have a window right now. If we get the QB right, that's the time to spend. Until we do, you're just burning it on the hope that the window is going to open.

Thanks. You are right. It is a one time bonus but you forget to mention the one time bonus is easily erased with a one time cap hit year.

If we draft a QB at #3 he better be good and we should spend. If the QB turns out to be bad, we can flush the one time cap bonus in 2 or 3 years while we find a different QB. Waiting around increases the chances we miss the opportuinty to have 1. a good QB, and 2. a good QB on a low cap charge.

 

[Steve102]

We know this to not be true. You cherry pick. Kraft is on record stating he asked Brady to take less with each contract and personally guaranteed Tom that he, RK, would spend the extra money on other players. Kraft abviously controlled the purse strings to some degree or he would not tell that story (promising Brady what he would spend with the extra savings Tom provided).

I agree. This is not difficult.

Your belief is like a fart in the wind.

I don't really have anything to add. I have my opinion, you guys have yours.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Thanks. You are right. It is a one time bonus but you forget to mention the one time bonus is easily erased with a one time cap hit year.

If we draft a QB at #3 he better be good and we should spend. If the QB turns out to be bad, we can flush the one time cap bonus in 2 or 3 years while we find a different QB. Waiting around increases the chances we miss the opportuinty to have 1. a good QB, and 2. a good QB on a low cap charge.

That's a fair point. I just like the Bills' model where they made sure Allen had it, let him go through a year or two of growing pains and then went all in.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

RK publicly has always been the background figure to those two guys.

Not true. RK has said in interviews that he negitotied TB12's final contracts.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That's a fair point. I just like the Bills' model where they made sure Allen had it, let him go through a year or two of growing pains and then went all in.

That is a good model too. We had a Top 10 defense with our best two players sidelined with injuries, Judon and Gonzo. Imagine getting those two back and adding Winfield Jr, B Burns, J Allen, and J Johnson. I think that would be the #1 D in the NFL. Why miss that opportunity?

 

[mike_usagisan]

That is a good model too. We had a Top 10 defense with our best two players sidelined with injuries, Judon and Gonzo. Imagine getting those two back and adding Winfield Jr, B Burns, J Allen, and J Johnson. I think that would be the #1 D in the NFL. Why miss that opportunity?

Because a rookie QB with growing pains could mean we're spending a lot on a defense for a team not going anywhere? That said, if they follow your advice, I wouldn't hate a great defense-led team.

 

[Kdo5]

Not true. RK has said in interviews that he negitotied TB12's final contracts.

The post you quoted had nothing to do about contract negotiations. It was about public perception which was to address the political bit you tried to bring into it.

If that is the conversation you wanted to have them sure Kraft played a role in Brady not returning. But that’s not how the public viewed it. You were talking about why people hate Belichick and then shifted to a lesser known subject of contract negotiations with Brady. What’s your point?

 

[SlowGettingUp]

You mean six Super Bowls and then a rough patch of a few years? It seems like this suggests that the approach has both good and bad results. Shrug.

It worked very well when Brady was here on a below-market contract, veteran free-agents were willing to come and sign for a discount, and the rest of the League hadn't gotten around to using void years and pushing expense into the future relying on an ever-increasing cap.

But this last year? Not so much. What would the year have looked like if they had sprung for a better tackle and paid DHop the extra million he apparently wanted? We had among the worst OLs and receiving corps in the League. Could have been a very different story indeed with some moderately higher spending. Bill the GM got stuck in his old ways and it cost the team (and his job).