Kirk Herbstreit on Mac Jones

[Kasmir]

Because Tom Brady was rarely down by two or three scores in a game winningest QB.

Exactly. But when Mac had a bunch of blowouts in 2021 you count those against him? You have to be on a mediocre team to get lots of GWD opportunities.

 

[PatsFan2]

Mac should have had one vs. the Cowboys in his rookie season, but the defense gave up gave up 24 yards on a third and 25 with 31 seconds left in regulation to allow the Cowboys to get into field goal position to send it into overtime. You cannot put that on Mac.

He could have had one vs, the Bucs except for a missed long, but makeable field goal by Nick Folk.

Against Miami in his first game of his career, Mac got the offense down to the Miami 11 yard line down 19-17 with four minutes left and Harris fumbled away the football. No one scored after that. That might have been a game winning drive.

In most of the games the Pats have lost in the last few years, they haven't been in a position for Jones to have an opportunity to have a game winning drive. In one, he succeeded and the defense totally let him down. In two others, he put them in position to potentially have one and someone else failed to make it happen.

There may have been like two, maybe three other games where Jones had the opportunity to score a game winning drive because the score was close enough. You cannot score a game winning drive in games where you are down more than one score at the end of the game.

Woulda coulda shoulda: that happened too many times with the Mac Jones lead Patriots especially against Good Teams. Let's hope that changes this season.

 

[Rob0729]

How important is that stat? I did the calcs, and Tom Brady is 27th all time in GWD/season right after Kyler Murray and just ahead of Andy Dalton.

It is an overrated stat. From my understanding it is calculated if an offense scores last in the fourth quarter in a game settled by a touchdown or less. It doesn't factor in how well the QB played all game as another poster pointed out with Tim Tebow. It doesn't factor in the opposing defense.

Some game winning drives are feats of teriffic QB play. Others is just a case of one team scoring last in a tight game.

 

[Sicilian]

Link please waiting...

Patriots 25-22 Texans (Oct 10, 2021) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the New England Patriots vs. Houston Texans NFL game, final score 25-22, from October 10, 2021 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

Took two seconds to find. Down 22-15 going into the 4th quarter. Leads a TD drive to tie, then a FG drive to win. And this wasn't a "defense got an INT to set up the FG" situation. It was a 15 play, 84 yard drive that ate up 7:00 minutes of clock.

 

[Rob0729]

Woulda coulda shoulda: that happened too many times with the Mac Jones lead Patriots especially against Good Teams. Let's hope that changes this season.

Show me all the games that I didn't list that the Pats were actually in a position for Jones to get a game winning drive and failed. I pointed to three. I would be surprised if you could find three more.

But I am not going to blame Jones for not getting the game winning drive when others failed.

 

[PatsFan2]

Patriots 25-22 Texans (Oct 10, 2021) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the New England Patriots vs. Houston Texans NFL game, final score 25-22, from October 10, 2021 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

Took two seconds to find. Down 22-15 going into the 4th quarter. Leads a TD drive to tie, then a FG drive to win. And this wasn't a "defense got an INT to set up the FG" situation. It was a 15 play, 84 yard drive that ate up 7:00 minutes of clock.

So Mac has one being down two scores against good Teams have been the kiss of death for these recent Patriot Teams.

 

[sb1]

Link please waiting...

www.google.com

 

[patfanken]

More incessant nonsense about "my ignorance" so you can avoid acknowledging one of the worst OC hirings in league history. Stupid me called it an obvious disaster from day one.

My underlying point constantly on the subject has been Belichick put Patricia in that spot so whatever blame you want to put on Patricia falls on Belichick first.A

And I gave you a perfectly plausible reason FOR that bad hiring. Patricia was a stop gap till BOB could get free of his Alabama responsibilities. It was ALWAYS going to be BOB after Josh and I gave reason after reason. Inferences for sure, but when put into the context of what happened, it all made sense. Now it was never supposed to be that bad and THAT was the miscalculation and for THAT BB has taken full blame as he should.

But that was then and this is now and NOTHING is to be gained by going OVER and OVER again about the sins of last season. Mac will be better and so will the offense. But none of that matters either if that improvement doesn't translate into wins.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yeah sure, pal.

There was an OC vacancy. Belichick could have considered multiple candidates. Belichick ultimately chose Matt Patricia (and Joe Judge) as the best available candidate(s) to lead his offense and his second year supposed franchise quarterback. The offense stunk, the quarterback regressed, pouted, lost his composure, and lacked toughness. There was no apparent constructive leadership from the quarterback, OC, or HC. Pretty much a predictable disaster all around.

Where's the "wishful conjecture, angry bias and willful ignorance" in any of that?

All of it, you keep shoveling the same sand uphill. What you assume as fact is all bias-driven conjecture re. the process through which Patricia/Judge were installed and kept. Re-read post Nos. the 41 and 52, you're repeating yourself and I'm not interested in rehashing your silly obsessions.

And regarding Patricia's dismissal and the hiring of O'Brien, you think Kraft was allowing Belichick any discretion on the situation? Particularly moving on from Patricia.

Just keep your head in the sand.

... He said while gazing into the mirror.

 

[patfanken]

How important is that stat? I did the calcs, and Tom Brady is 27th all time in GWD/season right after Kyler Murray and just ahead of Andy Dalton.

My guess is that stat penalizes QB's on very strong or very weak teams, and rewards those on 0.500 teams who see the most close games.

Like so many "stats" without context they can be very misleading, like garbage time passing yardage, or tipped pass interceptions. All "individual" stats are so entangled up with how well or badly OTHER people play, it is very hard to call them "individual"

 

[Stu Pidassle]

It is worth noting that several of Mac's relatively few comeback opportunities were ruined by fumbles. Starting with his first game as a rookie against Miami. There are enough legitimate questions about any third year QB with his journey to date. no need inventing other reasons to fuel the Mac hatred.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Mid season Trade new Offense a perennial 850yds guy I say Claypool bounces back I wanted him for us.

Bears figuring out what the Steelers learned about WR Chase Claypool

Chase Claypool being criticized for lack of motivation.

steelerswire.usatoday.com

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/news/pittsburgh-steelers-chase-claypool-new-career-chicago-bears

or maybe the guy is a complete knucklehead and the Bears are already having traders remorse.

 

[PatsFan2]

Bears figuring out what the Steelers learned about WR Chase Claypool

Chase Claypool being criticized for lack of motivation.

steelerswire.usatoday.com

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/news/pittsburgh-steelers-chase-claypool-new-career-chicago-bears

or maybe the guy is a complete knucklehead and the Bears are already having traders remorse.

Knucklehead really?? Modeling career over getting laid out by CB's -Safeties and LB's?? Real tough choice there he has some good features for a male model. I would say Chase have his head on his shoulders.

 

[crawhammer]

And I gave you a perfectly plausible reason FOR that bad hiring. Patricia was a stop gap till BOB could get free of his Alabama responsibilities. It was ALWAYS going to be BOB after Josh and I gave reason after reason. Inferences for sure, but when put into the context of what happened, it all made sense. Now it was never supposed to be that bad and THAT was the miscalculation and for THAT BB has taken full blame as he should.

There's no valid excuse for "a stop gap" being part of your plan with a second year franchise quarterback. Can't do it. Doesn't work. Didn't work. If O'Brien legitimately was unavailable then you have to move onto the next best option which you can't convince me under any circumstance was Patricia (and Judge). Also, let's say by some miracle Patricia had gotten a promising season out of the offense, then there is no way Belichick was kicking his buddy Patricia to the curb. So I'm not buying O'Brien was "ALWAYS" the plan.

But that was then and this is now and NOTHING is to be gained by going OVER and OVER again about the sins of last season. Mac will be better and so will the offense. But none of that matters either if that improvement doesn't translate into wins.

Mac likely will be better, with O'Brien, and with roster improvement, but his development at the very least was considerably stifled last season due to Belichick's "miscalculation." We'll find out if there are any lingering affects.

And as you're possibly touching on there, teams around them should be improved as well, in particular the Jets now with a hall of fame quarterback who still has something left to prove with a very solid roster around him. So really the Patriots will need to be much improved on offense if they're going to increase their win total from last season.

 

[crawhammer]

... He said while gazing into the mirror.

LOL! You keeping saying things that make absolutely no sense.

1. "I'm willfully ignorance"... because I said Patricia was a highly predictable disaster.
2. "I'm a fair-weather fan"... when I pay attention to everything, good, bad, or neutral.
3. "I have my head in the sand"... when I'm doing exactly the opposite and recognizing the problem.

Nice job.

 

[crawhammer]

BRONCOS: Payton is a great coach but isn’t a miracle worker (see 2021 Saints offense). Your certainty that a “major improvement is coming” is just wishful thinking on your part. It is equally likely that Wilson’s days as an effective starting QB are over, now that he legs are seemingly shot.

Wilson may not be an all time elite QB but he's had a very impressive career (until last season). I have enough respect for Sean Payton that I believe he will squeeze whatever quality play out of Wilson that he has left to offer.

JETS: Yes, they should be in the top three most improved but Rodgers is a weirdo loose cannon and if something pisses him off early on and he shuts down emotionally, it could also end of being a spectacular disaster (that is my wishful thinking).

Unfortunately the Jets are going to be very good this season (and probably 2024 too).

STEELERS: The fact that you chose Pitt as an example shows how hard you had to strain yourself to find an offense that could make a bigger improvement than the Pats. You expect a major improvement on offense bc of their draft? You sure about that, sunshine? An athletic but raw LT who is more likely to struggle than dominate in year 1 and a blocking>>pass catching TE with Edelman’s knees? There is no f-ing way that they should be above the Pats on anyone’s list of “most improved offenses” prediction. The same goes for the Saints, Ravens and Browns. Nope, nope, nope.

Pickett played better than his numbers last season. George Pickens was a huge steal at 52nd overall. Nice pick in Broderick Jones (like Pickens the Patriots could have had him so he's worth keeping a close eye on). Darnell Washington has great size and major upside for a player taken 93rd overall... one of my favorite picks in the entire draft. The Steelers could make some noise in a very tough AFC North.

Last but certainly not least….Fields as a potential MVP dark horse?

Fields looked great coming out of Ohio State. His passing game has been poor so far in Chicago but he's had a dismal supporting cast. His running game is elite. The supporting cast has gone from awful to respectable this offseason. It's a big season for Fields and I think he'll deliver. And I said "dark horse" MVP, so the odds of it are very remote.

 

[crawhammer]

It is worth noting that several of Mac's relatively few comeback opportunities were ruined by fumbles. Starting with his first game as a rookie against Miami. There are enough legitimate questions about any third year QB with his journey to date. no need inventing other reasons to fuel the Mac hatred.

It's just a fact... since entering the league Mac Jones has the lowest percentage of game-winning drives per start (3.2%). Second lowest is Mayfield (4.2%). Third lowest is Darnold (5.9%). Then Bridgewater (6.3%).

Mac has 1 GWD. Even Mariota, Mills, Rush, and Zach Wilson have 3 each. Kenny Pickett has 4 already with only 7 wins.

Brady by the way had 10 GWDs over the last two seasons (with a deteriorating supporting cast and a gigantic loser for a head coach last season). Nothing cheep about Brady's GWDs drives either (the last 3 of his career occurred in the last 10 seconds of the games).

 

[Kasmir]

It's just a fact... since entering the league Mac Jones has the lowest percentage of game-winning drives per start (3.2%). Second lowest is Mayfield (4.2%). Third lowest is Darnold (5.9%). Then Bridgewater (6.3%).

Mac has 1 GWD. Even Mariota, Mills, Rush, and Zach Wilson have 3 each. Kenny Pickett has 4 already with only 7 wins.

Brady by the way had 10 GWDs over the last two seasons (with a deteriorating supporting cast and a gigantic loser for a head coach last season). Nothing cheep about Brady's GWDs drives either (the last 3 of his career occurred in the last 10 seconds of the games).

Brady is 28th all time in GWD/season, just below Kyler Murray and just ahead of Andy Dalton. If you think that stat matters then Brady is far from being the GOAT.

It's an idiotic stat that you cherry picked to make Mac look bad. It rewards QB's on mediocre teams because they have the most opportunities.

 

[Rob0729]

Wilson may not be an all time elite QB but he's had a very impressive career (until last season). I have enough respect for Sean Payton that I believe he will squeeze whatever quality play out of Wilson that he has left to offer.


Unfortunately the Jets are going to be very good this season (and probably 2024 too).


Pickett played better than his numbers last season. George Pickens was a huge steal at 52nd overall. Nice pick in Broderick Jones (like Pickens the Patriots could have had him so he's worth keeping a close eye on). Darnell Washington has great size and major upside for a player taken 93rd overall... one of my favorite picks in the entire draft. The Steelers could make some noise in a very tough AFC North.


Fields looked great coming out of Ohio State. His passing game has been poor so far in Chicago but he's had a dismal supporting cast. His running game is elite. The supporting cast has gone from awful to respectable this offseason. It's a big season for Fields and I think he'll deliver. And I said "dark horse" MVP, so the odds of it are very remote.

Well, the Steelers had the 26th best scoring offense in the league. Proof that Pickett played far better than his numbers. Pickett didn't have a good completion percentage (24th best in the league), had seven games where he didn't throw for a single TD (granted one he only threw on pass), didn't throw for more than one TD in a game, and had more INTs than TDs. How did he play far better. Even his own teammates have pointed out him for playing like crap for 3 1/2 quarters in a game and then having one good drive at the end of the game.

But you did pick three of the worst offenses in the league to improve. None of them could get much worse than they were. As bad as the Patriots offense was last year, the Pats offense was far better than these three offenses. It is damning praise though.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady is 28th all time in GWD/season, just below Kyler Murray and just ahead of Andy Dalton. If you think that stat matters then Brady is far from being the GOAT.

I'll take your word for it. But is 28th all time in this particular stat bad?

It's an idiotic stat that you cherry picked to make Mac look bad. It rewards QB's on mediocre teams because they have the most opportunities.

Umm buddy, Mac is the quarterback for a mediocre team.