Jonathan Comey article: The Pats Are Still Kings Of The Draft

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Very interesting piece

Jonathan Comey's NFL Blitz: Pats are still kings of the draft | SouthCoastToday.com

 

[farn]

Good article. I am always quite aggravated at those who point to the 2007 draft and say : "Only Merriweather"...

Obv it's impossible to discount the Welker & Moss trades. Or to expect that any pick would have exceeded their production.

 

[patchick]

Great article -- and if anything, he undersells last year's draft by ignoring all the late rounds (and messing up the value for #23 overall, missing Edelman).

Here's the point that really got me:

the Patriots are inherently at a disadvantage thanks to their success — over the decade, they have less standard draft power than any other team.

And from 2007-09, they had an extra handicap — no first round pick of their own in 2008 thanks to the Spygate scandal. So, from where they started, the Patriots should have had the worst collective drafts of the last three years.

Should be obvious, but easy to lose track of, precisely because the Pats do just a masterful job maneuvering. When you always seem to have an extra first or a couple of extra 2nds, you're at an advantage, right?

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Good article which puts things into perspective as I really would have a hard time recalling all the moving around we have done in the draft the last few years.

Also interesting was right after the first article was a short comparing Tebew to Doug Flutie but a bigger version. Puts the fact that the Rams are going to spend 70 million on a QB who has had some serious problems with his shoulder and Minny possibly saving 60 million in this years draft and still find a QB of the future....when Brett finally retires

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Haters must hate, it's what keeps them fresh as a toad stool.

 

[captain stone]

What a piece of ball-washing, ass-kissing, ignorant pile of crap I just had the misfortune of reading. The only redeeming quality I've found is that now, whenever I see "Jonathan Comey" underneath a link, I know never, ever to click it.

"Kings of the Draft"...yeah right. The 2004, 2006, 2007 & 2008 drafts, and Brace, Tate, O'Burger & Bustey all say Huh?

The only "hater" to which this toady Comey lackey refers is himself.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Should be obvious, but easy to lose track of, precisely because the Pats do just a masterful job maneuvering. When you always seem to have an extra first or a couple of extra 2nds, you're at an advantage, right?

Keep in mind that having extra picks in future drafts comes at the cost of having a player or players in the current draft.

How badly did the Seymour trade hurt the 2009 Patriots?

 

[gomezcat]

So, they got Mayo, Crable, Tate, Mc Kenzie, Welker, Moss, Brace, Wheatley, Wilhite, Meriweather, Chung, Vollmer and that's considered a poor haul by some? O'Connell was a poor pick. Bear in mind that Crable, Tate and Mc Kenzie can't be judged at this point and Brace is having the same difficulties experienced by Wilfork in his initial year and a bit here.

Oh, and then there's Ohrnberger (who is a backup to the best pairing of Guards in the NFL) and Slater who is a useful STer.

The others were 5th round and below; I don't see too many of the 5-7th rounders on the rosters of good NFL teams.

I defy anyone who thinks the Pats could have done better to do this. Go through those drafts and tell me what you would have done with the picks they had available to them. Additionally, I would like to see what you would do with all of the Pats' picks this year. There is a caveat to this. You have to post your decision at the same time as the Pats are on the clock, so there's no scope for second-guessing.

 

[DaBruinz]

What a piece of ball-washing, ass-kissing, ignorant pile of crap I just had the misfortune of reading. The only redeeming quality I've found is that now, whenever I see "Jonathan Comey" underneath a link, I know never, ever to click it.

"Kings of the Draft"...yeah right. The 2004, 2006, 2007 & 2008 drafts, and Brace, Tate, O'Burger & Bustey all say Huh?

The only "hater" to which this toady Comey lackey refers is himself.

2004 - A good draft. Not great, but good. Saying otherwise shows you to be inept.

2006 - Again, a good draft. Not great, but good.

2007 - Only someone who refuses to acknowledge the acquisitions of Moss and Welker and refuses to look at the fact that 6 of their 9 picks were in the 6th and 7th rounds, and 4 of those 6 picks weren't tradable would think that it was a bad draft.

2008 - Drafts can't be evaluated for 3 years. Every coach and GM says so. Yet, in your finite wisdom, have concluded that it sucks. Forget about the fact that Wilhite has been a solid contributor, Slater has been an ACE special teamer, and that Mayo had an outstanding rookie year and a marred sophmore year due to a partially torn MCL. The only true BUST from that draft was O'Connell.

But, delude yourself however you want. You've shown time and again you ignore fact and believe only your opinion.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Keep in mind that having extra picks in future drafts comes at the cost of having a player or players in the current draft.

How badly did the Seymour trade hurt the 2009 Patriots?

It hurt but would they have been likely to win the Superbowl if they hadn't traded him?

While we're just speculating I doubt we would have gone much deeper in the playoffs even if we kept him, so at that point it's all the same, if you don't win the SB you're the same as the Rams. Now since we have their #1 pick we can grab a real franchise player like AJ Green or Mark Ingram next year (knock on wood) assuming the Raiders play like crap again next season.

I'd rather grab a Mark Ingram than go one game further in the playoffs, Ingram can be that Corey Dillon-type back that so many here covet. Sometimes you need to take 2 steps back to take 5 steps forward.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

So, they got Mayo, Crable, Tate, Mc Kenzie, Welker, Moss, Brace, Wheatley, Wilhite, Meriweather, Chung, Vollmer and that's considered a poor haul by some? O'Connell was a poor pick. Bear in mind that Crable, Tate and Mc Kenzie can't be judged at this point and Brace is having the same difficulties experienced by Wilfork in his initial year and a bit here.

Oh, and then there's Ohrnberger (who is a backup to the best pairing of Guards in the NFL) and Slater who is a useful STer.

The others were 5th round and below; I don't see too many of the 5-7th rounders on the rosters of good NFL teams.

I defy anyone who thinks the Pats could have done better to do this. Go through those drafts and tell me what you would have done with the picks they had available to them. Additionally, I would like to see what you would do with all of the Pats' picks this year. There is a caveat to this. You have to post your decision at the same time as the Pats are on the clock, so there's no scope for second-guessing.

Haven't read the article but I just wanted to point out to you that Welker and Moss were very good trades but they were not draft picks. Wheatley has a grand total of three tackles going into his third year. Crable and Mckenzie have yet to play a down of NFL football. Tate has one touch and it was a rush not a catch. Brace was on the bench in favor of a practice squader when the oppurtunity presented itself and had 6 tackles total. Ohrnberger was in on 6 total plays total. He is an undersized guard who was basically traded for Hobbs a player who could have helped on ST. On the other hand Slater cost two picks because the Pats traded up to get him. Hobbs and Slater were acquired/traded for about the same in terms of draft picks which one do you think would help more on ST. Say what you want about Hobbs as a CB but you can't tell me that Wilhite is any better. Warren Sapp on NFLN this week gave the Pats an A grade for drafting over the last 5 years saying that they almost never miss, that right ther tells me he does not know what he is talking about. Last years draft looks like it could be pretty good but the three years before that were pretty bad.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What a piece of ball-washing, ass-kissing, ignorant pile of crap I just had the misfortune of reading. The only redeeming quality I've found is that now, whenever I see "Jonathan Comey" underneath a link, I know never, ever to click it.

"Kings of the Draft"...yeah right. The 2004, 2006, 2007 & 2008 drafts, and Brace, Tate, O'Burger & Bustey all say Huh?

The only "hater" to which this toady Comey lackey refers is himself.

That's my Cappy Downer, now I know Comey is a must read. :rocker:

 

[gomezcat]

Haven't read the article but I just wanted to point out to you that Welker and Moss were very good trades but they were not draft picks. Wheatley has a grand total of three tackles going into his third year. Crable and Mckenzie have yet to play a down of NFL football. Tate has one touch and it was a rush not a catch. Brace was on the bench in favor of a practice squader when the oppurtunity presented itself and had 6 tackles total. Ohrnberger was in on 6 total plays total. He is an undersized guard who was basically traded for Hobbs a player who could have helped on ST. On the other hand Slater cost two picks because the Pats traded up to get him. Hobbs and Slater were acquired/traded for about the same in terms of draft picks which one do you think would help more on ST. Say what you want about Hobbs as a CB but you can't tell me that Wilhite is any better. Warren Sapp on NFLN this week gave the Pats an A grade for drafting over the last 5 years saying that they almost never miss, that right ther tells me he does not know what he is talking about. Last years draft looks like it could be pretty good but the three years before that were pretty bad.

I strongly recommend reading the article, as it explains why the drafts were better than they might look at first glance.

Point taken re Moss and Welker. However, they represented excellent value for what would have been available at those picks. Have a look on nfl.com at the WRs who could have been taken- it tells me that the Pats got it right and understood the lack of value in those positions (of course, time will tell on how those other WRs pan out).

I agree that their drafting isn't worthy of an A, but context is important. The Pats pick in the bottom third of the draft, in some really ropey years (again, have a look at the players available) and still come away with some good players.

Not only that, but they engineer a situation where they have four picks in the top two rounds in what is apparently the best draft in a long, long time.

The three picks in the second round is no accident. Someone in the organisation worked out that a) the CBA talks weren't going well (leading to more Juniors coming out) and b) that the 2010 draft class was probably going to be a good one. It strikes me that this was done because they knew they could get better players in this rather than previous drafts.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Now I am not a hater or a simple contrarian when I question these findings. The lagging fact that each of these players and picks has had the benefit of being coached by BB who puts players in positions to succeed a bit better than most other coaches dilutes the drafting prowess. Its been noted almost across the board that players leaving NE going to other places very very rarely have the same success never mind increased success. That suggests its the coaching and the system rather than the drafting and the player or am I wrong?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

This article gave me a nice laugh as this guy is clearly in the minority. I'll be fair and give 2009 some time although they haven't done too much to get excited about. However, the 2006 and 2008 drafts were pathetic! In fact, their poor drafts are the exact reason why they have the most holes since 2002 and 2005.

I'm confident had their 2006 draft contributed more, they would've won 2 more super bowls from 2006-2007. In 2006, people gripe about only needing one catch to win that game. Didn't they trade up to take Chad Jackson?

Here are some more laughable quotes:

Of the Patriots' drafting from 2000-06 under Bill Belichick, there can be little argument.

2006 has become the most disappointing draft in the BB era. Maroney is decent but nothing great, Jackson was a huge letdown, the over drafting of TE's and taking a kicker in the 4th round. The irony in this is that their kicker has turned out to be the most consistent and arguably their best pick.

This draft was obviously saved by the Mayo pick, and moving down three spots in the first round to add a third-rounder (Crable) was the type of move Pats fans take for granted.

I didn't know one player makes a draft? And it's not like Mayo is a pro bowler. Oh yeah, I'm so happy the Pats traded done a couple spots to take a player who has made it to the I.R. twice in the last two seasons.

Whatever makes you feel better Pats fans.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Haven't read the article but I just wanted to point out to you that Welker and Moss were very good trades but they were not draft picks. Wheatley has a grand total of three tackles going into his third year. Crable and Mckenzie have yet to play a down of NFL football. Tate has one touch and it was a rush not a catch. Brace was on the bench in favor of a practice squader when the oppurtunity presented itself and had 6 tackles total. Ohrnberger was in on 6 total plays total. He is an undersized guard who was basically traded for Hobbs a player who could have helped on ST. On the other hand Slater cost two picks because the Pats traded up to get him. Hobbs and Slater were acquired/traded for about the same in terms of draft picks which one do you think would help more on ST. Say what you want about Hobbs as a CB but you can't tell me that Wilhite is any better. Warren Sapp on NFLN this week gave the Pats an A grade for drafting over the last 5 years saying that they almost never miss, that right ther tells me he does not know what he is talking about. Last years draft looks like it could be pretty good but the three years before that were pretty bad.

how were moss and welker acquired ? with draft picks !

it's kind of like banging your head on a concrete wall. i don't get the denseness.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

how were moss and welker acquired ? with draft picks !

it's kind of like banging your head on a concrete wall. i don't get the denseness.

You're telling me. FWIW Moss was drafted by the Vikings not the Patriots. Welker went undrafted and was signed as an UDFA by San Diego. Therefore in a discusssion as to how well the Pats draft it doesn't have a whole lot of relevance. Now if you want to talk about how they do in trades that's another thing. I guess we should consider Derrick Burgess our third and fifth round draft pick this year and list him when discussing the draft class or does that only work when it helps your side of the argument?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

It hurt but would they have been likely to win the Superbowl if they hadn't traded him?

While we're just speculating I doubt we would have gone much deeper in the playoffs even if we kept him, so at that point it's all the same, if you don't win the SB you're the same as the Rams. Now since we have their #1 pick we can grab a real franchise player like AJ Green or Mark Ingram next year (knock on wood) assuming the Raiders play like crap again next season.

I'd rather grab a Mark Ingram than go one game further in the playoffs, Ingram can be that Corey Dillon-type back that so many here covet. Sometimes you need to take 2 steps back to take 5 steps forward.

Even though I do not have a shred of fact, I somehow think that the meltdown with Thomas and the "lack of chemistry" in the locker room can be traced to the moment BB jettisoned Seymour.

I have deduced this based on the fact most of the problems all seem to have originated with the defense and it was a "veteran" guy that became the focal point of the discontent.

Having played college football, I understand how dynamic a locker room can be and what strikes me as not being right is the way the rest of the team didn't react when the Thomas thing got ugly early in the season.

So in my way of thinking if BB hangs onto Seymour, he hangs onto the locker room. And everybody is back pulling the same way on the rope. Would it have been enough to get them into the SB? Don't know,but I think the team would have been significantly better and more cohesive with Seymour stays and he stayed healthy all year.

 

[Snake Eyes]

So in my way of thinking if BB hangs onto Seymour, he hangs onto the locker room. And everybody is back pulling the same way on the rope. Would it have been enough to get them into the SB? Don't know,but I think the team would have been significantly better and more cohesive with Seymour stays and he stayed healthy all year.

You're probably right, the team would likely have been more cohesive, especially the defense, but apparently Bruschi and Vrabel also played a big part of keeping Thomas in line. There's also no guarantee that Seymour would have been able to stay healthy all year. The offense was also prone to melting down and Brady has not been what he was in the past so I really don't see them being able to defeat the Saints.

If we can get Ingram or Green next year (hopefully both) we can start building the foundations for another Dynasty. Again, one sometimes needs to take a step or two backwards before taking several forwards, I supported and still support the Seymour trade.

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

It's a good article, and I've never personally admonished the 2007 draft but his exclusion of the 2006 draft from his analysis seems like cherry picking. I'm right there with him with regards to letting the more recent ones play themselves out but in my mind that stands as the worst of his tenure and an utter waste.