J.C. Jackson - "It's time to get Mr. INT paid."

[Wozzy]

You keep saying this over and over. Let me ask you something. Do you think it's a coincidence that Belichick's teams as a HC have never won a division (0 for 9) w/o Brady as the starting QB? Or is it just bad luck?

CLE: 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 4th
NE: 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd.

When Belichick was in Cleveland he was the youngest head coach in NFL history to that point. He also inherited Bernie Kosar who the Cleveland brass and fan base expected him to win with despite the fact his best football was behind him. When he got better at QB in Testeverde they made the playoffs… the last time they won a playoff game until 2020. They had one of the best defenses in the league.

What happened afterwards was the subject of an ESPN documentary about Art Modell pulling the rug out from under Cleveland fans and moving the team to Baltimore. This notion that Bill was some abject failure in Cleveland isn’t based in reality but the reimagining of a past by BB haters like yourself. To turn a dumpster fire around takes more than one season, it takes time.

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, it is indeed common practice for the patriots to ask a player to give the team one last chance if they sign a contract elsewhere. That in NO way means that the player is anyway obligated to take a similar deal from the patriots, or even a higher deal from the patriots.

And yes, most agents don't mind give the team that courtesy, even if there is ZERO chance of the player signing with them.

Nobody said a player was obligated to take any deal. Hightower took less so he wouldn’t have to play for the Jests… so don’t pretend it doesn’t happen.

 

[Wozzy]

What you don't seem is to understand is that the team cannot TELL free agents what to do. There is little reason for most to consider a serious counteroffer from the patriots.

Obviously, if Jackson gets what he wants or close, there is no reason to come back to the patriots. And yes, it is "crawling" if Jackson can't get what he wants elsewhere, and seriously then wants the patriots to give him a deal.
=======
Much can happen in a week, but if Jackson is a free agent, we (as fans) should just then consider him gone. The patriots have ZERO intention of signing the #2 free agent in the NFL once they allow him to be a free agent.

Agents will always try to come back and get more… this is negotiations 101.

If this concept is alien to you, then you’ve never negotiated a deal or had an agent do it for you.

Frankly I don’t know WTF you’re arguing at this point… that a player and agent won’t try to get the best deal available?

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Sometimes you have to pay the guy even if he's a little bit overpaid, because you need talent at the position. He's still a very good player.

It's better to overpay at a position once in a while, than to be weak at that position and get destroyed. That can be the differnce between 2-3 games against teams like the Cardinals, Raiders, etc. That be explosive.

I guess we have to hope we get a great undrafted corner again?

 

[Wozzy]

Sometimes you have to pay the guy even if he's a little bit overpaid, because you need talent at the position. He's still a very good player.

It's better to overpay at a position once in a while, than to be weak at that position and get destroyed. That can be the differnce between 2-3 games against teams like the Cardinals, Raiders, etc. That be explosive.

I guess we have to hope we get a great undrafted corner again?

Why would the replacement corner have to be undrafted? Draft one, hell draft two…

 

[TheRainMaker]

Prediction: JC will have a team lined up within the 1st day of FA. There’s always that one team a year that comes out of nowhere and throws a bunch of money at a top FA.

Now the D with already glaring weaknesses at DL and LB, can add CB to the list.

 

[*ChungFu*]

Prediction: JC will have a team lined up within the 1st day of FA. There’s always that one team a year that comes out of nowhere and throws a bunch of money at a top FA.

Now the D with already glaring weaknesses at DL and LB, can add CB to the list.

I'd be fine with an all defense draft, even if JC re-signs or gets tagged. The O-line being the lone exception.

 

[Wozzy]

If this is true then there's some kind of systemic issue because there ends up being reported friction with a number of DBs... Law, Milloy, Samuel, Butler, Gilmore, perhaps Jackson...

You're also right about the DB depth without Jackson, it's laughable.

Obviously no coincidence. Same with Tampa Bay completely turning their franchise around for two seasons.


If Belichick never wins another division then it's going to be a bad look. It's just a reality.


You call a .450 winning percentage a success? One playoff win in 5 seasons? He never got the quarterback situation right in Cleveland, which alone doomed him, but collectively neither the offenses or defenses were any good. He had 5 seasons to put a team together and he failed miserably. The one season they had a winning record they beat up on trash, they had 3 wins against teams above .500 and two were against the Patriots and Bledsoe who gift wrapped both games with a combined 1 TD and 7 INTs.

Jimmy Johnson - season one: 1-15 - season two: 7-9
Bill Walsh - season one: 2-14 - season two: 6-10
Chuck Noll - season one: 1-13 - season two: 5-9 - season three: 6-8
Tom Landry - season one: 0-11-1 - season two: 4-9-1 - season three: 5-8-1
Bill Parcells - season one: 3-12-1 - season two: 9-7

This ^ is what a rebuild looks like… these guys must suck as bad as BB did as the youngest coach in the league.

Correct.

So can Team Bill please explain to me how he won NFL Executive of the Year??

The defense is facing a full blown crisis. The special teams were a negative, bordering on disaster. You have no 3rd down RB and the WR depth is weak with no obvious #1. And your most expensive TE sucks. All this with a second year QB whose improvement probably depends on the strength of his supporting cast.

Full blown crisis… god you’re a negative nancy.

 

[*ChungFu*]

All Patriots' DBs get wet willies and tittytwisters. Sometimes the best player thinks he's above it

 

[mgteich]

Nobody said a player was obligated to take any deal. Hightower took less so he wouldn’t have to play for the Jests… so don’t pretend it doesn’t happen.

Comparing Jackson's situation to Hightower is just plain silly. Jackson is getting his first big payday.

BTW, was Hightower viewed as the #2 best free agent?

 

[ralmat55]

When Belichick was in Cleveland he was the youngest head coach in NFL history to that point. He also inherited Bernie Kosar who the Cleveland brass and fan base expected him to win with despite the fact his best football was behind him. When he got better at QB in Testeverde they made the playoffs… the last time they won a playoff game until 2020. They had one of the best defenses in the league.

What happened afterwards was the subject of an ESPN documentary about Art Modell pulling the rug out from under Cleveland fans and moving the team to Baltimore. This notion that Bill was some abject failure in Cleveland isn’t based in reality but the reimagining of a past by BB haters like yourself. To turn a dumpster fire around takes more than one season, it takes time.

No, in my case, it’s the remembrance of a person who was alive at the time and old enough to be paying attention and understand what was going on. The revisionary version is the one you spout.

If your version were the case, why did it take 5 years before another owner gave Belichick a chance again and then against the advice of pretty much everyone else in the league?

Cleveland was a Josh McDaniels in Denver, Matt Patricia in Detroit and Joe Judge in New York type disaster for Belichick.

 

[Sciz]

BTW, was Hightower viewed as the #2 best free agent?

#2 no, but some sites ranked him at 3 or 4.

 

[Wozzy]

No, in my case, it’s the remembrance of a person who was alive at the time and old enough to be paying attention and understand what was going on. The revisionary version is the one you spout.

If your version were the case, why did it take 5 years before another owner gave Belichick a chance again and then against the advice of pretty much everyone else in the league?

Cleveland was a Josh McDaniels in Denver, Matt Patricia in Detroit and Joe Judge in New York type disaster for Belichick.

Point out the season in McDaniel's career in Denver, Patricia in Detroit or Joe Judge in New York where they went 11-4 and had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL like the Browns did in 1994?

It took the Brown's 24 more seasons to win another playoff game... I suspect you were 2 year's old in 1994 but remember it well .

 

[Wozzy]

Comparing Jackson's situation to Hightower is just plain silly. Jackson is getting his first big payday.

BTW, was Hightower viewed as the #2 best free agent?

I didn't say the two situations were alike other than the Patriots telling the player to go out and find the best deal available and see if they can match or beat it. This is common practice with the Patriots, they did the same exact thing with McCourty years ago as well.

 

[venecol]

There's a rumor Bucs may tag Godwin again, so Davis may be in play.

Carlton Davis seen as a possible Patriots replacement for J.C. Jackson

The Patriots could potentially add cornerback Carlton Davis from the Buccaneers if J.C. Jackson leaves, per an ESPN report.

www.boston.com

 

[XLIX]

Point out the season in McDaniel's career in Denver, Patricia in Detroit or Joe Judge in New York where they went 11-4 and had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL like the Browns did in 1994?

It took the Brown's 24 more seasons to win another playoff game... I suspect you were 2 year's old in 1994 but remember it well .

This has to be the dumbest comment on this forum ever, showing a complete lack of knowledge of pretty much everything. It took the city of Cleveland 24 seasons to win another playoff game. However, it took the franchise that fired Belichick only 5 years to win a Super Bowl.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah I’m good with the team not paying elite corner $ for this

And yet you're fine paying Jalen Ramsey and other ELITE corners who got burned like this the money. Your standards are whack.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah against Teams who come in totally banged up. We won't be able to play consistent zone against the Iron in the AFC. The AFC sports some very good young QB's who are currently better than Mac at this point. Remember Buffalo didn't punt once and JC Jackson was on the field.

*ROFLMAO* Clearly you didn't watch the game. How many times did Buffalo throw at Jackson in that game on 3rd down? Or were they throwing at Bryant who was covering either Davis or McKenzie because they knew that Bryant couldn't cover them..

And lets not forget that Judon was playing hurt while Van Noy/Collins disappeared on the Pass rush so Allen had TONS of time to throw the ball.

 

[Wozzy]

This has to be the dumbest comment on this forum ever, showing a complete lack of knowledge of pretty much everything. It took the city of Cleveland 24 seasons to win another playoff game. However, it took the franchise that fired Belichick only 5 years to win a Super Bowl.

With many of Bill’s players and the GM he hired. Your lack of knowledge is only surpassed by your resentment of Bill. Get a grip.

 

[Wozzy]

We already did this dance but I'll bite again with a different angle...

Jimmy Johnson... after seasons 1 & 2 in Dallas... 3 seasons, 36-12, 7-1 postseason record with 2 Super Bowl titles.

Bill Walsh... after seasons 1 & 2 in SF... 8 seasons, 6 division titles, 7 postseason appearances with 3 Super Bowl titles.

Bill Parcells... after seasons 1 & 2 in NYG (the second season of which was a playoff season btw)... 6 seasons, 7-2 postseason record with 2 Super Bowl titles. Parcells also subsequently pulled three more franchises out of the gutter.

Chuck Noll... after seasons 1-3 in Pittsburgh... 8 consecutive seasons of postseason appearances with 4 Super Bowl titles.

Tom Landry... after seasons 1-3 in Dallas (with a brand new franchise)... a few seasons later he had 20 consecutive winning seasons with 13 division titles, 5 Super Bowl appearances, and 2 Super Bowl titles.

Bill Belichick... after seasons 1 & 2 in Cleveland... 3 seasons, 23-25, 0 division titles, 1-1 postseason record, fired after a 5-11 season in '95.

Hmm... things didn't work out quite as well for Belichick as those other guys.

You're also of the opinion, like most, that New England is currently in the midst of a rebuild... so you're projecting the kind of success that those other HOF coaches eventually had with their teams? Otherwise, what's your point?

Bill Belichick has 6 rings with a QB he drafted… but he’s the only one of these HOF coaches whose record doesn’t count because you hate Bill.

Your bias is showing.