Is anyone still worried about the Bills?

[stephens44]

Yes. Football is nothing like it was pre-2005. Hell Drew Bledsoe was the yards leader before Allen!

Kelly had 1k career rushing yards, Allen already has 2k in just 4 years, no one else on that list is close. Allen has a higher completion percentage, higher rating, more TDs, etc.
Statistically the comparison with the other 5 on that list is not even close. He's also a giant compared to all of them and obviously could have played "pre-2005" as if that's some sort of qualifier. He's put up numbers the last 2 years that put him in the MVP conversation, and did that with a crap O-line and weak running game. Kelly had an all star team to work with and still managed pedestrian stats (even in the context of the period he played).

Allen is clearly the best they've ever had. I'm guessing he has a frustrating Marino like career based on the franchise he plays for.

 

[jmt57]

I always caution against comparing stats of players of not only different eras, but even different decades. The game is constantly changing, to the point where comparing passing or receiving stats even between 10 or 20 years difference is useless.

For example, when Vinny Testaverde retired he ranked 6th most in passing yards in NFL history. Sixth!!! And Kerry Collins retired as having the 9th most passing yards!


Let us instead look at how these Buffalo QBs performed when they played, since the raw numbers are useless. Numbers below reflect how many seasons a player ranked in the top ten in that category, unless noted otherwise.

Jim Kelly
6x - Passing Yards
9x - Passing TD
7x - Passer Rating
8x - Pass Completion %
8x - Yards per Pass Attempt
7x - Comebacks
6x - Game Winning Drives
6x - Total Offense

Josh Allen
2x - Passing Yards
2x - Passing TD
0x - Passer Rating
0x - Pass Completion %
0x - Yards per Pass Attempt
2x - Comebacks
3x - Game Winning Drives
2x - Total Offense

Joe Ferguson
4x - Passing Yards
6x - Passing TD
3x - Passer Rating
0x - Pass Completion %
3x - Yards per Pass Attempt
10x - Comebacks
7x - Game Winning Drives
4x - Total Offense


Do I believe that Josh Allen will eventually be the Buffalo Bills' all-time best quarterback? Good chance, based on what we have seen thus far. But is he already the best quarterback in their franchise history? No way, not yet anyways.

 

[GaryfromTO]

huh? I don't remember him on Buffalo. I kinda remember him with the Rams or was it the Eagles? Maybe both.

He also played for the Montreal Alouettes in the CFL in 1981. He stunk cuz he couldn't grasp that there were only 3 downs, not 4. Montreal finished 3-13 that year.

 

[203Pat]

What are we debating here? If Josh Allen is good or as good as a HOFer?

 

[captain stone]

Kelly had 1k career rushing yards, Allen already has 2k in just 4 years, no one else on that list is close. Allen has a higher completion percentage, higher rating, more TDs, etc.
Statistically the comparison with the other 5 on that list is not even close. He's also a giant compared to all of them and obviously could have played "pre-2005" as if that's some sort of qualifier. He's put up numbers the last 2 years that put him in the MVP conversation, and did that with a crap O-line and weak running game. Kelly had an all star team to work with and still managed pedestrian stats (even in the context of the period he played).

Allen is clearly the best they've ever had. I'm guessing he has a frustrating Marino like career based on the franchise he plays for.

I really, Really hope that somebody on the Jesters breaks at least one of that ****ing over-protected, ****ing gutless, jumpy ****ing punk’s legs… That would be so ****ing cool…

 

[holyredeemer]

I agree with this in large part. I think the issue for Mac though is it's questionable whether he has an NFL caliber arm not a cannon. He struggles to drive the ball consistently. And Bill and the coaches did not trust him at all to throw the ball in Buffalo even with the wind at his back. It's those things that are concerning imo.

Well, if what you say is true, then what an absolute disgrace it will be if BB and Co. don’t go hard to find his replacement. Failure to replace a QB that lacks an NFL arm, is a waste of time for everyone in the organization and everyone that supports them. Clap your hands, tell the kid great job, then go get yourself the future.

 

[stephens44]

Well, if what you say is true, then what an absolute disgrace it will be if BB and Co. don’t go hard to find his replacement. Failure to replace a QB that lacks an NFL arm, is a waste of time for everyone in the organization and everyone that supports them. Clap your hands, tell the kid great job, then go get yourself the future.

Per Belichick and M Lombardi:
“We wanted somebody who was at least 6027 (6-foot-2 7/8), weighed 220 (pounds), could run 4.81 (seconds in the 40-yard dash), had a (Wonderlic) test score of 25, and we understood that his decline would start at 31 (years old) and probably his career would end at 35,” .
“We will never take a quarterback with a low test score who plays at a poor level of competition and is not capable of leading the team,” Lombardi said. “Those three areas are vital to us when we’re looking for a quarterback. Without mentioning size and speed, the scout must first answer the mental and leadership question completely before you give a high grade.”

Precision is at a premium for Belichick. Throwing to spots is perhaps the most important physical characteristic. The coach also wants a quarterback who will be the hardest-working player on the team and one committed to film study.
Also this: What is Bill Belichick looking for in a quarterback?

Explains why Jones is BB's guy for the long term.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

For example, when Vinny Testaverde retired he ranked 6th most in passing yards in NFL history. Sixth!!! And Kerry Collins retired as having the 9th most passing yards!

Thank you

And Drew Bledsoe ranks second most passing yards in Patriots history

Tony Eason is fifth

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I really, Really hope that somebody on the Jesters breaks at least one of that ****ing over-protected, ****ing gutless, jumpy ****ing punk’s legs… That would be so ****ing cool…

No! I want him in there to throw picks, get sacked and lose

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I always caution against comparing stats of players of not only different eras, but even different decades. The game is constantly changing, to the point where comparing passing or receiving stats even between 10 or 20 years difference is useless.

Indeed.

The absurdity of considering so many of these stiffs over Jim Plunkett for example is mind numbing.

Let us instead look at how these Buffalo QBs performed when they played, since the raw numbers are useless.

Flutie, in his first extended starting gig, led the Patriots to the brink of the playoffs (like Brady and Jones)

Then he got benched and they promptly were eliminated.

After setting rushing and passing records in Canada which will never be broken, and earning six MVP's and three titles, instead of retiring he went to the Bills, led them to the playoffs where he threw for 360 yards and rushed for 29 yards at Miami, then again led them to the playoffs in 1999 only to be benched again and they were promptly eliminated.

Do I believe that Josh Allen will eventually be the Buffalo Bills' all-time best quarterback?

Is Mark Sanchez the Jets' all-time best quarterback?

Seriously, in his time, who would I take over Jim Plunkett to start a game I wanted to win?

Maybe Staubach...Grogan...Montana...um...thinking...thinking...

How about Flutie's prime, when the Patriots had no quarterback (and still paid Hugh Millen $1 million), would I take anyone over Doug?

Young? Elway? Kelly? No. I want to win.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Indeed.

The absurdity of considering so many of these stiffs over Jim Plunkett for example is mind numbing.

Flutie, in his first extended starting gig, led the Patriots to the brink of the playoffs (like Brady and Jones)

Then he got benched and they promptly were eliminated.

After setting rushing and passing records in Canada which will never be broken, and earning six MVP's and three titles, instead of retiring he went to the Bills, led them to the playoffs where he threw for 360 yards and rushed for 29 yards at Miami, then again led them to the playoffs in 1999 only to be benched again and they were promptly eliminated.

Is Mark Sanchez the Jets' all-time best quarterback?

Seriously, in his time, who would I take over Jim Plunkett to start a game I wanted to win?

Maybe Staubach...Grogan...Montana...um...thinking...thinking...

How about Flutie's prime, when the Patriots had no quarterback (and still paid Hugh Millen $1 million), would I take anyone over Doug?

Young? Elway? Kelly? No. I want to win.

Flutie was a WINNER! Shameful he got benched by the Pats and Buffalo.

 

[Allentown Boy]

That was from July 2020. He came into the league in 2018. 2018, he sucked. In 2019, he was mediocre. In 2020, he was good and this year, he is good. If he left football today, he would still be off that list.

In 2019, he was not mediocre, he was very good. Over 3,000 yards passing, 29 touchdowns, only 9 picks, won 10 games, took his team to the playoffs, and was voted a top 100 player in the league by his peers. There were only a few QB's ahead of him on that list. That is not "medicore." Also, in 2020 and 2021 he was not "good" he was elite. Being in the MVP conversation every year and being a top 10 player is not just good, that's elite.

 

[Patnation21]

Kelly had 1k career rushing yards, Allen already has 2k in just 4 years, no one else on that list is close. Allen has a higher completion percentage, higher rating, more TDs, etc.
Statistically the comparison with the other 5 on that list is not even close. He's also a giant compared to all of them and obviously could have played "pre-2005" as if that's some sort of qualifier. He's put up numbers the last 2 years that put him in the MVP conversation, and did that with a crap O-line and weak running game. Kelly had an all star team to work with and still managed pedestrian stats (even in the context of the period he played).

Allen is clearly the best they've ever had. I'm guessing he has a frustrating Marino like career based on the franchise he plays for.

 

[Patnation21]

Anyone but Buffalo. Allen torched us last game and did the same last year. Who knows how that "wind" game would have went if the Bills strength wasn't taken away by crazy wind. I actually hope we end up with the Titans. I like our chances with them

 

[sb1]

Rob Johnson lol. I laughed when I saw this


Take the injuries of Jimmy and the one game wonder of Matt Flynn and you get Rob Johnson. The Bills really traded a first for this guy... yikes

 

[sb1]

Anyone but Buffalo. Allen torched us last game and did the same last year. Who knows how that "wind" game would have went if the Bills strength wasn't taken away by crazy wind. I actually hope we end up with the Titans. I like our chances with them

The Pats in that game late last year were basically the Jags on Sunday. Laid down as a much as a team could lay down.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In 2019, he was not mediocre, he was very good. Over 3,000 yards passing, 29 touchdowns, only 9 picks, won 10 games, took his team to the playoffs, and was voted a top 100 player in the league by his peers. There were only a few QB's ahead of him on that list. That is not "medicore." Also, in 2020 and 2021 he was not "good" he was elite. Being in the MVP conversation every year and being a top 10 player is not just good, that's elite.

2019 he was 20/9 and had an 85 rating. He was very caretakerish that year and still inaccurate- but improved over his rookie year. They went 10-6 b/c the D was very good.

Nonetheless Josh Allen is one of the top QBs and overall talents in football.

 

[Patnation21]

The Pats in that game late last year were basically the Jags on Sunday. Laid down as a much as a team could lay down.

That's kinda true somewhat. I would still rather any other team. Their defense is very good as well and believe it or not are 6th in rushing and we've struggled stopping the run. I read that the Bills have gotten some players back on the O line and have been running the ball better the last few games. They were also missing Davis and Beasley last game, both are back. Either way you look at it, any game is tough but I think given the choice would avoid Buffalo and let someone else take them out.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Rob Johnson lol. I laughed when I saw this


Take the injuries of Jimmy and the one game wonder of Matt Flynn and you get Rob Johnson. The Bills really traded a first for this guy... yikes

Apparently Wilson ordered Phillips to bench Doug.

In Flutie's case, just consistency on the part of Raymond Berry.

Each time he started Eason over Grogan, I told myself, "We're going to lose. I'll watch and root for us to win, but..."

So by the time Bledsoe came along I was used to it. Nice guy, threw for a lot of yards, but the most overrated athlete in the history of Boston sports.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Apparently Wilson ordered Phillips to bench Doug.

Fact.