Idle Thoughts - The "where do you start" edition

[DarrylS]

More bizarre was the 43 offensive plays they ran, versus the 93 their Defense faced. By the 4th quarter they were gassed and done, especially as they are not deep nor big, aside from a few DTs. BB beat them with his rotating depth, versus their few stars.

Listened to a lot of "analysis" yesterday and this aspect seemed to be ignored.. to have pulled off 101 plays including the penalties against the Falcons wore them down. There are times posters criticize why BB has" this guy" or "that guy" on the roster, Sunday nite it made sense..

OTOH the Falcons only ran 43 plays, our D was fresh.. this whole concept is seriously underplayed..

 

[DarrylS]

Amazed how many people I ran into yesterday who went to bed @ 9:00 or whatever time half time was, I will admit I was discouraged, but by 10:10 PM I was really starting to feel it..

When I woke up yesterday AM, had to think did that really happen?? Almost seemed surreal.

Did not think they could come back from being down 25.... most amazing sports story have ever witnessed..

PFK great job all season, you deserve much credit for your well thought out threads and analysis, you deserve all the praise you get for your efforts.. .looking forward to next year..

 

[Captain Cliche]

I wonder why they go for smaller, more mobile centers when Brady is not mobile and vulnerable to pressure up the middle.

Always wished they had an all pro like Mangold.

 

[luuked]

Well I just reviewed the last 24 minutes of the game in a more calm and obbjective setting and I tend to agree with you. Look at it a second time I seem less an issue fo the Altlantaa's defense was fatigued , and more about the Pats execution. On all threw of the last drives , including the overtime, most of the plays were closely defended, and though the Pats scored on theirlast 5 possessions, it included 3 of the 5 Atlanta sacks.occurred in that time

IF the Pats had played better earlier in that game , without the TO's, missed passes and drops, The game just might have been the blowout some had expected. Thought clearly having to play 94 plays inn a Superbowl envioroment had to take some toll, but on 2nd review, not as much as I thought.

The thing that often goes under is that playing man coverage is more exhausting than playing zone. This is why many defensive coordinators sprinkle in a few plays of zone coverage in between to give their players a bit of a breather. I think BB acknowledged that the Falcons were giving them more zone coverage towards the end of the game after being extremely successful with man during the first 2.5 quarters of the game. It is maybe just my own speculation but I think that exhaustion played a major role in this switch.

 

[luuked]

on another note what did you think about the onsides kick? I thought it was very telling and the results that took place after just makes the game that more puzzling. i can see why BB chose to onsides kick it like you said a Matt Ryans QB rating was almost perfect and they were getting chunk yardage runs. So after causing the Falcons to punt after the onsides kick recovery was the 1st major bullet that was dodged.

Some say that the onside kick came a bit early which is not completely wrong but imho there is more to this story. You have to keep the number of potential possessions you can have in addition to your deficit in mind. At that point we were down 9-28 so we needed 3 possessions with 2:06 to play in the third quarter.

Kicking the onside kick right there a) gives you a way to steal a possession, b) maybe catches the other team a bit off guard if it comes early increasing your chances (most probably not in this case), c) shortens the opponents drive leaving more time on the clock in case you can produce a 3 & out.

On the flipside you can of course also argue that kicking it you have a shot at a safety or at least pinning them deep. So obviously the onside is not a no-brainer at that point but given the situation certainly not stupid or such especially when you recognize that you are not only playing the Falcons but also the gameclock at that point.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Here's an interesting link to an article detailing how and why Falcon QB pressures dropped as the game progressed.
Here's why the Falcons' defense was so tired at the end of Super Bowl LI

I've been talking about this since in-game, during the game day thread, early in the game. When you want LaG to break loose in the first quarter, you're just being a little too starry eyed. Even when they end up with a ton of yards and TDs, more often than not, they're not getting much early. They're beating up the defense.

Holding onto the ball and keeping the Atlanta D honest "flying around/swarming to the ball" is part of that 2:1 time-of-possession advantage. It's way better if he's getting yards and not coughing up the ball, so duh, I think he sucked in his role this game, almost so bad that we lost.

But for the dum-dums telling us all about the terrible Pats playcalling... this was clearly game-plan. They couldn't do it ALL game, but the little screens played into it, the White and Lewis changes of pace played into it, etc.

The drops I could have lived without, the turnovers I could have lived without, the protection problems I could have lived without...

The refs held the hankies in except for true muggings and Atlanta took full advantage. If I was as grabby as their D in coverage or their O-line on protection on my commute, I'd be up on assault charges. I think they took the idea "there's holding on every play, but you can't sell ads if you call all of them," and made the calculation of "I know, let's hold on every play." But that's a bit homeristic I guess.

Sometimes you have to realize there is good and bad in the same play-call... I count the Blount plays among them (except for that little fumble). I count the clock advantage at the end of the half as predictive of the 4th quarter meltdown on Atlanta's part. That's chess not checkers.

And as Andy pointed out here they couldn't disguise their man/zone looks. You send Edelman in motion pre-play and see who's on him. Brady was ready to exploit the way they play zone, and they just didn't... at first. Once they started showing zone, it was over. To be fair, can you throw off that read (on Brady's part?) Sure they disguised their pressure looks, and kudos, they got to Tom.

A couple of things as the takeaway:

You remember "all you have to do is rattle Brady?"

That was when "yeah well, everybody gets rattled when they're pile-driving him every play" was the (relatively rational) excuse.

Now he's 39 years old, and he got physically/mentally tougher.

Think about it. He made some questionable throws that fortunately were "freebies," that is true. But did he look "rattled?" I don't think he looked "rattled." He looked like he was at work and it was a crappy day at the office at first... but not "omg omg omg what to do about the protection???"

Then to use a McPhereson metaphor, he got out his shovel and went to work. And if you get that reference, um, think about it. A shovel to symbolize determination? A shovel's what you use to dig the hole deeper.

Anyhoo. That's my thing today, my 2 cents, whatevah. For now anyway.

Okay gotta go.

 

[irishfanatic]

Some Replies/thoughts on PATFANKEN@ Post

OFFENSE

1. OL - I had great expectations for the OL pre-game and none for the Atlanta pass rush. I also had no respect for the Falcon rush D. It was a game where I thought the Pats OL would dominate the LOS.

Well; for the first 40 minutes of the game I was dead wrong. During that time Brady is sacked 5 times (some of them coverage sacks) and hit many more times besides. For the first 40, it looked like the Falcons were following "the blueprint" perfectly. It looked like they shut down the run game completely. They were hitting Brady and making him look extremely uncomfortable in the pocket, and they forced 2 turnovers including that soul crushing pick 6.

The key to winning any game in this era is forcing FG's not TD's, turning the ball over, and have your offense make chunk plays (over 20 yds), and the Atlanta D was doing doing that to a T.....but only for the first 40 minutes.

But there are a lot of stats that were hidden in the seeming rout that was going on. The Pats had a huge time of possession lead in the first half, and while the run game looked completely stuffed, I was surprised that when I added up the rushing total, it was over 100 yds. Who would have thunk.

Individually, I don't think anyone in the OL was innocent in what happened over the first 40 minutes. It looked like even our great OT's were allowing hits and might have be responsible for some sacks. Shaq Mason got blown up on the first sack, and when you give up 5 sacks in less than 40 minutes no one is not guilty of something.

But that all changed in the the final 20+ minutes of the game. Brady was virtually untouched and it looked like a different Atlanta Defense. But in defense of the OL. 2 of the players we all worried about pre-game was Beasley and Hageman. Hageman had just 2 tackles, and Joe Velano with 1 assisted tackle did more than Beasley who didn't make the stat sheet. So the OL had to be doing something right all night.

The fact is that in the end we have two very good OT's and a very young interior who did OK and will get better as time goes on. All in all we have good things to look forward to in the future.

Love the season Marcus Cannon had and he had a stand out game in my humble opinion.

3. RB's -

a. I doubt anyone here has been more critical of James White than I have been in his 3 years with the team. Especially this year when I felt he was in the way of my binky, DJ Foster. And while I never doubted his hands, for the first 2 years he was always tackled by the first man who touched him. He was a horrible runner.

Well White has become ANOTHER in the long line of guys who just simply get better the longer they are here. He's another testiment to the Pats coaching staff and the "Patriot way". Because James White (who still isn't a good runner), is infinitely better than he was, and was obviously critical to the Pats' success last night. Plus we should note that rather than a liability he was early in his career, White has become a good pass blocker. Kudos to him and shame on me.

I was delighted with White's performance, not least because I called it in another thread in lead up to game,. (Shameless self praise)

b. Lewis - Was a big disappointment. He didn't seem to run the ball well, made a bad decision on ST's on a KO, and put the team in a hole, was no factor in the passing game, and had a drop. I don't know if its the knee, but even in the regular season, he was no where near the explosive player he was in 2015 pre-injury. Hopefully he can get at least some of that back.

I was also disappointed in Lewis but apparently he tweaked a hamstring during the game.


4. QB - What can you say. What Brady accomplished in the last 20 minutes of that game is simply remarkable. But what makes it so incredible is the fact that by Brady standards he did it after being very mediocre for the first 40. Normal NFL QB's can't usually overcome those bad starts. They can't suddenly recapture their focus to do what Brady did. And with Brady its become a regualr occurrence, and something we see over and over again in the most pressure packed moments. The suerpbowl vs Seattle is and obvious example, but even in the loss to Denverin the AFCCG, think about that comeback to be in possition to tie the game....on the road after the beating he took.

I would just like to add that (ironically), that TB12 had the longest Patriot run in the game, 15 yards.



No doubt getting hits affects Brady just like every other QB in history,but history shows us it never beats him, especially in the most important games of the year. So lets FINALLY put that "myth" to rest.

As we know, that Myth is BS. He is one tough Football player.

5.

a. One area that the Pat offense has recently sucked is in 2 point plays, or passing plays from the 2. The Denver 2 pointer comes immediately to mind. Not only did it fail, it failed miserably. Final play of the Seattle game this year was another expample of a big play from the 2 that not only failed but just looked ugly. SO it can as a great surprise that the Pats made BOTH of their 2 pt coversions. AND looked good doing it.
Knowing BB, because of that failure in Seattle game, it would not surprise me to hear it was practiced extensively since, (somewhat like the Malcom Butler interception on the pick play in SB49)


So in the end Ken , I would like to add that the way the game started my family and I were hugely disappointed and all I was hoping for at 25 pts down was to show some fightback and make the score respectable, while hoping to myself that a miraculous comeback might take place. To be honest I did not expect it to occur.

Lastly, in the end,, I want to thank you for all your time, effort and insights during the whole season. Your posts are always a great read and for me, somewhat educational on this great game of Football.

 

[archstanton543]

"Bennett - I thought early in the game Bennett should have gotten more looks, because he's a guy who is big enough to catch balls when he is "covered". He's a guy you can "throw open". Instead they used him sparingly again, yet he had a very productive 5 for 62. I really wish he wasn't interferred with in OT, because I think it would have been fantastic for him to end the season with the game winning TD."

He was used sparingly because he needs surgery on his ankle and was limited. His blocking suffered because of it. He also had another shot at the game winning TD but couldn't haul it in. I don't blame the coaches for not using him more since he was limited in what he could do.

 

[ChessToCheckers]

Yeah, when it comes to the refs, I think it's more about competence that it is corruption.

I agree. I don't think corruption is an issue, although with the amount of wagered money on this sport especially with the evolution of Fantasy Football, the potential for it is real.

I agree that competence is an issue, but IMO the task of officiating is near impossible. The rules are way too complicated (was that a catch? was that a football move?) and the decisions have to be made in fractions of a second. The viewing public get to see slow motion replays of every close call.

Having Dean Blandino, a man who has never officiated in an NFL game, be the head of Officials cannot help either!

 

[ChessToCheckers]

Great post, Ken!

I am still astonished that the Pats found a way to come all the way back!

31 unanswered points ... on the world's biggest stage!

Those 16 points to tie required FOUR goal line crossings!

So improbable. So delicious! Wow!

 

[irishfanatic]

I would like to say that I am thrilled that Scar, Matty P and Josh McD are all still on board for next season, hard to beat continuity at this level.

also,this SB Victory and the manner it was achieved will do no harm to New England Patriots as a landing spot for quality veteran Free Agents, for those in search for a Ring rather than the almighty dollar.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

A couple of additional thoughts.'



2. Running 94 offensive plays in one game is another remarkable stat to come out of this game. Several players commented on how this offense was the best conditioned offense in the league, and how they continued to run "the hill" behind the practice field, even last week, long after other teams have stopped this kind of conditioning.'

In the end it was this better conditioning that helped the Pats smoke that gassed Atlanta defense, more than any second guessing of any coaching decisions.

.

Spot on. Reminds of the quotes from Washington players a few years ago after joint preseason practices. The Pats were running sprints after practice and the Washington players were quoting as saying " we don't do that" which is why one team is playing in February and another is making tee times.....
I posted elsewhere a comment I heard that Atlanta defeated themselves by running Chip Kelly's offense and killing their own defense by scoring quickly on a few plays or getting of the field so their defense was out there for 99 plays and was gassed at the end.....

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I would like to say that I am thrilled that Scar, Matty P and Josh McD are all still on board for next season, hard to beat continuity at this level.

also,this SB Victory and the manner it was achieved will do no harm to New England Patriots as a landing spot for quality veteran Free Agents, for those in search for a Ring rather than the almighty dollar.

Give them Chris Long's cell number and have them ask him what it's like playing in February after averaging 4 wins a year for your career.....

 

[1960Pats]

Bennett - I hope he stays but I'm not worried if he doesn't.
Hogan - Too many drops. He needs to work on that.
Edeleman - Don't write him off yet. He still has a couple of good years left.

5a - The success of the two point conversions might have something to do with the Pats spending extra time in practice on them.
9d - The best part about watching the booing of Fraudger on the boob tube was that if you turned up the volume you could still hear the booing but not Fraudger.
9f - How about the image of Fraudger giving his blah speech while TB and BB are yukking it up and laughing behind him. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when his name comes up with B&B.

 

[archstanton543]

"Why hasn't some bright mediot gone and done some kind of story on these guys. (Strength and conditioning coaches)"

Listen to the Quick Slants podcast. They covered this sensory deprivation relaxation tank the Pats started using this year.

 

[1960Pats]

Some of my thoughts:

- Loved to see Tommy LomBrady giving Fraudger the Sherman 2014SB treatment when he acted like he didn't see the Ommish standing there with his hand out. That was one of the best awkward moments.
- For some strange reason I thought about the bit players like Jacoby Brissett and Matt Lengel during the game and afterward. I wonder how it feels to them to be a part of the team but not play in the SB.
- Did I hear right that there were actually fans who were calling for Garoppolo? They could not have been serious.
- I remember reading that some Atlanta fans thought that TB was rattled. That showed me how little they actually know about Brady. He doesn't get rattled, he's the rattler. They probably understand that now.
- Speaking of the Atlanta fans, most were very respectful, and to those I say a heartfelt thanks. But there were also some who were ragging on our Saint fan friends when they thought that the game was in the bag. Woops.
- My lucky sweatshirt's playoff record improved to 19-3, which is a better winning % than Tommy LomBrady's. Just saying.
- I actually felt a little guilty for having some doubts about the team when it went to 28-3, but I never gave up on them.
- The second pass to Bennett in OT was way too close to a pick for my comfort. They were trying to force the ball to him to give him a hometown winner and it came very close to blowing up in their faces.
- One of the biggest plays that I think went unnoticed was a tackle by Elandon Roberts. It was on the swing pass to Freeman all alone on the left that he turned into an even bigger gain when the Falcons had the 28-20 lead late in the 4th quarter. Once Freeman faked one player out of his jock he had clear sailing ahead to the endzone and a blocker ahead of him. Roberts caught him from slightly behind or that would probably have ended the game.

Finally my last thought. I'm sure that the Atlanta fans and team at some point earlier thought the game was over and that they were going to win going away like with many other opponents. Sorry Atlanta, but NOT THIS TEAM.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The refs held the hankies in except for true muggings and Atlanta took full advantage. If I was as grabby as their D in coverage or their O-line on protection on my commute, I'd be up on assault charges. I think they took the idea "there's holding on every play, but you can't sell ads if you call all of them," and made the calculation of "I know, let's hold on every play."

Patriots fans are the LAST fans who should ever make that complaint.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Spot on. Reminds of the quotes from Washington players a few years ago after joint preseason practices. The Pats were running sprints after practice and the Washington players were quoting as saying " we don't do that" which is why one team is playing in February and another is making tee times.....

Wonder if Bill read Red's books. Red would drive the team very hard conditioning-wise in preseason so they'd be in mid-season shape at the start of the season.

(One reason was to have them in good shape for the whole season. The other reason -- less applicable to today's NFL -- is that since being a player wasn't a full-year job back then many teams would play their way into shape and with the Celtics being in mid-season shape at the beginning, it made it easier for them to pick up early-season wins.)

 

[luuked]

Just an addition to my previous thoughts on exhaustion and coverage:

 

[Uptown]

Would anybody happen to have the link/ website for the Falcons Fan forum?

I'd really love to see how to their fans went from 100 to -1,000,000 in methodical fashion.

Thank you..