2020 Patriots Season:
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patfanken

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Rather than go through the normal prodigious detailed review of today's game, time constraints and the fact that I'd rather sleep than bore you with my musings, I thought I'd just offer some disjointed thoughts about this terribly disappointing game.

1. The offense sucked over all. It constantly kicked itself in the ass with some mind numbingly dumb plays that killed drive or created turnovers that constantly put the defense into bad positions. . 4 turnovers are one thing, but there were also FOUR fumbles, of which we recovered 3 just added to one stalled drive after another. And what made it even more frustrating was the fact that almost every drive featured a number of good plays that often moved the ball down the field only to see the drive get sidelined.

2. Think about this. You'd think on a day when the offense could only generate 12 points, Jake Baily would have to punt more than 3 times, and one of those was from Denver's 38. (and it was a good one)

3. Cam Ran the ball well and threw the ball terribly, at least in my impression. I don't think I saw a throw he made where he dropped back and set an threw the ball in rhythm. he looked completely out of sorts. His field vision seemed to have taken a step back this week.

4. As a former football coach I think what you saw on offense was the difference between one team that had the better part of 2 weeks of practices and one teams that had only one with Cam. I know there will be those among you who would say say, "well the Titans played great without practicing much when they went through their Covid maladies." Well their situation was a bit different. They had 3 practices and didn't have to deal with the same situation the Pats had on the OL. IMHO there were just too many changes to overcome all the adversity.

Football teams have to practices to be able to execute a game plan, ESPECIALLY teams like the Pats who happen to run a very complex offense where timing is so critical to its success. To expect the offense to look much better than it did was going to be wishfull thinking.

5. Even Joe Thuney killed a scoring drive with a bad snap. And when Joe Thuney makes a mistake its news.

I said to a friend that in a way the Pats caught a break when Elumaneur went down, because that moved Wynn back to LT where he played pretty well, but he sucked as a RG. After he allowed a deflection that killed a drive or caused the pick (I forget which) I started to looked closely at his play, and it wasn't good. I think it was because he was setting his feet as if he were on the end of the line rather than in the middle of things. For someone who constantly plays on the outside, things move a lot quicker on the inside. A lot more things coming at you, and it showed in his play. I'm sure he was very happy to get sent back to LT where he seemed to do much better.

The one bright side to all this was Frodholt finally got into a game and I thought played pretty well. I'm thinking it was the first time he got in a game, am I right about this.

Bottom line, the Pats have often had to make some changes to their OL moving a couple of players around and have generally had good success. Of course those were on weeks when they actually got together to practice those changes. At any rate, I don't want to see Wynn at G any time soon. You can't win them all.

6. Here are the things that pissed me off. (feel free to add your own)

a.ve been supportive of Bills trials when it come to finding impact WR's. But he HAS had success in finding TE's. So If I had Josh in a closed room with me, I'd have to ask. How come Denver could come into my stadium and make a TE who was active for the first time this season, in his first NFL game a major factor in their offensive plans (6 targets), while I don't think ANY TE of ours has had 6 targets for the last 2 years!!!!!!

Each week I see TE's that I've never heard of of who are just JAGS make plays for their team, while we seem to seem to just concede the TE routes to the defense with guys I believe are just as good as many of the guys who are making plays. Izzo had 3 catches for almost 40 yds. It was unfortunate that he fumbled one of them, but he was at least open AND caught the ball. And when are we going to see Asiassi get some targets. Wasn't he drafted as the "pass catching" TE. Well Josh we are five games into the season and this kid hasn't gotten a TARGET yet.

b it was also very frustrating to see the OTHER team's 6'4 WR making plays down field (84 yds), while our 6'4 WR was only targeted 2 and was thrown balls he had no chance to catch. Even if he hasn't lived up to his 1st round status, he's still a 6'4 inch target who has 4.5 speed and has proven he can catch the ball. Send him down the field and throw it to him damned it. If he's having trouble getting into his routes, then move him inside or use motion or bunches to free him up. This is beginning to piss me off.

c. I thought the defense played fairly well today. Only 3 drives deep into their territory, which is not horrid when your offense created 4 turnovers. However there is NO excuse for "the best secondary in the league" to give up a 36 yd play on third and 26. And I wouldn't want to be in the room when THAT play comes up with Bill doing the breakdown.

9. But overall, I thought the D did fairly well. However Cowarts absence was felt as was the loss of Butler during the game. Those loses were clearly evident in the run game. On the other hand, I thought Bentley had his best game since his rookie year. Still can't cover for sh!t, but he was very strong in the run game with 12 tackles.

10. Although the secondary gave up some plays, overall I thought the coverage was good, especially the man coverage. Those 2 picks by Jones and Jackson were awesome.

11. This team needs PRACTICE. They have the Niners coming off a very good win this week so their confidence will be high for the Jimmy G reunion game, It will be a good test. Pardon me, but I'll put aside my obituary of this season until I see what they do next week. ;)
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Agree. Frustrating on many levels

1. Why is TE Asiasi shut out of any pass targets (zero) through 5 games. Get him a couple catches. McDaniels has a terrible history of not developing any tight ends (he inherited Gronk from O'Brien's work).

2. NKeal is a bust. A half dozen rookie WRs this year are doing better with barely any covid training camp. NKeal is like an Aaron Dobson clone. Belichick needs to find another offensive scout to counterbalance the terrible WR OC evals he's been getting from his staff.

3. I don't feel as bad about the loss after knowing Denver is just kryptonite for Cam. He's 0-4 in Denver. It's like when Brady played worse against Miami for some reason. That plus Cam didn't practice for 2 weeks due to covid, and he only had 3 OLineman essentially after the first quarter.

4. The secondary was impressive. Gilmore out and Jackson and Jones played lights out. We may have 3 of the best 10 CBs in a pass happy league. Defense giving up zero TDs was impressive.

5. We just have to get out of this 2011 league-worst St Louis Rams offense that McDaniels is running right now. Brady and Gronk covered for a lot on McDaniels.

.
 
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luuked

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c. I thought the defense played fairly well today. Only 3 drives deep into their territory, which is not horrid when your offense created 4 turnovers. However there is NO excuse for "the best secondary in the league" to give up a 36 yd play on third and 26. And I wouldn't want to be in the room when THAT play comes up with Bill doing the breakdown.

I am really not sure what there is to say about that play. Maybe the safety was a step to late to get over there ? But apart from that Lock hit a ultra tight window and I am still not even convinced that their WR got both feet in on the sideline because CBS ****ing refused to show a replay that would clear that aspect up.

ve been supportive of Bills trials when it come to finding impact WR's. But he HAS had success in finding TE's. So If I had Josh in a closed room with me, I'd have to ask. How come Denver could come into my stadium and make a TE who was active for the first time this season, in his first NFL game a major factor in their offensive plans (6 targets), while I don't think ANY TE of ours has had 6 targets for the last 2 years!!!!!!

Each week I see TE's that I've never heard of of who are just JAGS make plays for their team, while we seem to seem to just concede the TE routes to the defense with guys I believe are just as good as many of the guys who are making plays. Izzo had 3 catches for almost 40 yds. It was unfortunate that he fumbled one of them, but he was at least open AND caught the ball. And when are we going to see Asiassi get some targets. Wasn't he drafted as the "pass catching" TE. Well Josh we are five games into the season and this kid hasn't gotten a TARGET yet.

We have been through this so many times. But lets roll out the tweets again:




Combine those three into one coherent message and you get the gist.

Asiasi had his snaps (which translate to the number of packages he is in) trending in the right direction until we lost Cam before the Chiefs game. The cluster****ed practice situation in the last two weeks certainly didn't help anyone to make strides or catch up except in terms of their health.

It took the GOAT TE 10 weeks to get past 50 yards in a game in 2010 and this was in a season with absolutely ideal conditions in terms of preseason workouts, a QB playing on an absolute MVP level and whatnot.

And other teams putting their JAG TEs in specific plays onto the field is to me a pretty meaningless indicator. It takes only one misunderstanding on an audible or bad block to turn a game (e.g. Freeman whiffing his assignment against HT in the SB) or end a QB's season. I think the mindset of "they should just try things because what could be the harm" is a pretty reckless statement given everything we have seen in the past years. This is how you end up with **** like the Colts fake punt.

This team needs PRACTICE. They have the Niners coming off a very good win this week so their confidence will be high for the Jimmy G reunion game, It will be a good test. Pardon me, but I'll put aside my obituary of this season until I see what they do next week.

I agree. There is absolutely zero to take away in terms of big picture from yesterday's game because of its freaky circumstances. Either way we are at a point now where all the "we should have had that one" capital is used up for the season. We need a win next week no matter how.
 
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StockingAnarchyNumber12

In the Starting Line-Up
I think we'll rebound. I don't believe we're THIS bad. This was 4-12 bad. I think we'll win 9 games. 2002-esque. Probably WC birth. We'll see though. Just, we looked good against Seattle. Also against Miami and Oakland. Need to keep that in mind. This loss imo probably bumps us out of 10-11 wins though. Okay, maybe not 10 but probably 11. With that said, 9-7 would be respectable with all the covid issues.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
I think we'll rebound. I don't believe we're THIS bad. This was 4-12 bad. I think we'll win 9 games. 2002-esque. Probably WC birth. We'll see though. Just, we looked good against Seattle. Also against Miami and Oakland. Need to keep that in mind. This loss imo probably bumps us out of 10-11 wins though. Okay, maybe not 10 but probably 11. With that said, 9-7 would be respectable with all the covid issues.
I’ve said 9-7 all along. We had games like this in 02 for sure.

It’s so hard to predict though what the virus will do to us and other teams. Hopefully we don’t lose any more weeks of practice or players.
 

DarrylS

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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
COVID-19 + injuries + lack of practice = what we saw yesterday.
Last summer never imagined the NFL would even begin never mind make it through 6 weeks.
Lack of TE production is troubling
O line mix and match is troubling, they did as best as they could, but not sure any of the combinations we saw yesterday were even conceptualized.
Edelman & Harry were there, but not "there"..
One of the most boring Pats games ever
BB has his work cut out for him..
 

p8ryts

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Rather than go through the normal prodigious detailed review of today's game, time constraints and the fact that I'd rather sleep than bore you with my musings, I thought I'd just offer some disjointed thoughts about this terribly disappointing game.

1. The offense sucked over all. It constantly kicked itself in the ass with some mind numbingly dumb plays that killed drive or created turnovers that constantly put the defense into bad positions. . 4 turnovers are one thing, but there were also FOUR fumbles, of which we recovered 3 just added to one stalled drive after another. And what made it even more frustrating was the fact that almost every drive featured a number of good plays that often moved the ball down the field only to see the drive get sidelined.

2. Think about this. You'd think on a day when the offense could only generate 12 points, Jake Baily would have to punt more than 3 times, and one of those was from Denver's 38. (and it was a good one)

3. Cam Ran the ball well and threw the ball terribly, at least in my impression. I don't think I saw a throw he made where he dropped back and set an threw the ball in rhythm. he looked completely out of sorts. His field vision seemed to have taken a step back this week.

4. As a former football coach I think what you saw on offense was the difference between one team that had the better part of 2 weeks of practices and one teams that had only one with Cam. I know there will be those among you who would say say, "well the Titans played great without practicing much when they went through their Covid maladies." Well their situation was a bit different. They had 3 practices and didn't have to deal with the same situation the Pats had on the OL. IMHO there were just too many changes to overcome all the adversity.

Football teams have to practices to be able to execute a game plan, ESPECIALLY teams like the Pats who happen to run a very complex offense where timing is so critical to its success. To expect the offense to look much better than it did was going to be wishfull thinking.

5. Even Joe Thuney killed a scoring drive with a bad snap. And when Joe Thuney makes a mistake its news.

I said to a friend that in a way the Pats caught a break when Elumaneur went down, because that moved Wynn back to LT where he played pretty well, but he sucked as a RG. After he allowed a deflection that killed a drive or caused the pick (I forget which) I started to looked closely at his play, and it wasn't good. I think it was because he was setting his feet as if he were on the end of the line rather than in the middle of things. For someone who constantly plays on the outside, things move a lot quicker on the inside. A lot more things coming at you, and it showed in his play. I'm sure he was very happy to get sent back to LT where he seemed to do much better.

The one bright side to all this was Frodholt finally got into a game and I thought played pretty well. I'm thinking it was the first time he got in a game, am I right about this.

Bottom line, the Pats have often had to make some changes to their OL moving a couple of players around and have generally had good success. Of course those were on weeks when they actually got together to practice those changes. At any rate, I don't want to see Wynn at G any time soon. You can't win them all.

6. Here are the things that pissed me off. (feel free to add your own)

a.ve been supportive of Bills trials when it come to finding impact WR's. But he HAS had success in finding TE's. So If I had Josh in a closed room with me, I'd have to ask. How come Denver could come into my stadium and make a TE who was active for the first time this season, in his first NFL game a major factor in their offensive plans (6 targets), while I don't think ANY TE of ours has had 6 targets for the last 2 years!!!!!!

Each week I see TE's that I've never heard of of who are just JAGS make plays for their team, while we seem to seem to just concede the TE routes to the defense with guys I believe are just as good as many of the guys who are making plays. Izzo had 3 catches for almost 40 yds. It was unfortunate that he fumbled one of them, but he was at least open AND caught the ball. And when are we going to see Asiassi get some targets. Wasn't he drafted as the "pass catching" TE. Well Josh we are five games into the season and this kid hasn't gotten a TARGET yet.

b it was also very frustrating to see the OTHER team's 6'4 WR making plays down field (84 yds), while our 6'4 WR was only targeted 2 and was thrown balls he had no chance to catch. Even if he hasn't lived up to his 1st round status, he's still a 6'4 inch target who has 4.5 speed and has proven he can catch the ball. Send him down the field and throw it to him damned it. If he's having trouble getting into his routes, then move him inside or use motion or bunches to free him up. This is beginning to piss me off.

c. I thought the defense played fairly well today. Only 3 drives deep into their territory, which is not horrid when your offense created 4 turnovers. However there is NO excuse for "the best secondary in the league" to give up a 36 yd play on third and 26. And I wouldn't want to be in the room when THAT play comes up with Bill doing the breakdown.

9. But overall, I thought the D did fairly well. However Cowarts absence was felt as was the loss of Butler during the game. Those loses were clearly evident in the run game. On the other hand, I thought Bentley had his best game since his rookie year. Still can't cover for sh!t, but he was very strong in the run game with 12 tackles.

10. Although the secondary gave up some plays, overall I thought the coverage was good, especially the man coverage. Those 2 picks by Jones and Jackson were awesome.

11. This team needs PRACTICE. They have the Niners coming off a very good win this week so their confidence will be high for the Jimmy G reunion game, It will be a good test. Pardon me, but I'll put aside my obituary of this season until I see what they do next week. ;)
Mostly agree. I just don't see anyone giving Fangio the credit he deserves. His team was aggressive offensively and defensively from the first snap. Pats clearly outcoached all game. I refuse to criticize the OL, unfamiliar mix, no practice. They did as well or better than expected. Credit Chubb and Simmons with some excellent plays. Why wasn't Winovich in the game more? 22 snaps? The only good thing Josh did all day was come up with 2 trick plays that worked. He never adjusted (in my humble uninformed opinion). How about going 5 wide and spread them out with some speed? I thought Cam was badddd. Didn't change any plays, as Ken noted, made god awful passes. I had the same feeling as Ken during the game. For chrissakes throw the ball up and give Harry a chance at it. His throws are late, he doesn't set his feet, his delivery is long and his trajectory is flat. I have to admit I was wishing BB would put Stidham in. That Jonathan Jones interception was GREAT! Lot of angst on not challenging the White play. If BB didn't see it and nobody alerted him, why would he? Where was Ernie on that play? Was he out with the Covid? Going for 2 early was ok. Very disappointing loss. Oh well, we have one of those every year. Let's hope we get back on track. The young talent on the offensive line is encouraging. Jonathan Jones, Adrian Philipps and John Simon played their butts off.
 

archstanton543

In the Starting Line-Up
We have been through this so many times. But lets roll out the tweets again:




Combine those three into one coherent message and you get the gist.

Asiasi had his snaps (which translate to the number of packages he is in) trending in the right direction until we lost Cam before the Chiefs game. The cluster****ed practice situation in the last two weeks certainly didn't help anyone to make strides or catch up except in terms of their health.

It took the GOAT TE 10 weeks to get past 50 yards in a game in 2010 and this was in a season with absolutely ideal conditions in terms of preseason workouts, a QB playing on an absolute MVP level and whatnot.

And other teams putting their JAG TEs in specific plays onto the field is to me a pretty meaningless indicator. It takes only one misunderstanding on an audible or bad block to turn a game (e.g. Freeman whiffing his assignment against HT in the SB) or ending a QBs season. I think the mindset of "they should just try things because what could be the harm" is a pretty reckless statement given everything we have seen in the past years. This is how you end up with **** like the Colts fake punt.
Then how come other teams' rookie TE's are lightyears ahead of ours?
 

luuked

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Then how come other teams' rookie TE's are lightyears ahead of ours?

Who are those rookie TEs that are light years ahead ?

Kmet ? Trautman ? Both with less than 40 total yards so far. Harrison Bryant ? A gigantic 70 yds so far. Okwuegbunam ? A grand 5 yards more than Izzo yesterday.
 

archstanton543

In the Starting Line-Up
Who are those rookie TEs that are light years ahead ?

Kmet ? Trautman ? Both with less than 40 total yards so far. Harrison Bryant ? A gigantic 70 yds so far. Okwuegbunam ? A grand 5 yards more than Izzo yesterday.
Who are those rookie TEs that are light years ahead ?

Kmet ? Trautman ? Both with less than 40 total yards so far. Harrison Bryant ? A gigantic 70 yds so far. Okwuegbunam ? A grand 5 yards more than Izzo yesterday.
That less than 40 yards more than that Pats' two rookies.

And Izzo's a rookie?
 

Ross12

Moderator
Staff member
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It sucked, but playing a game with what, 2 or 3 total practices? vs. a team who has spent 2 entire weeks preparing to play you is rarely going to go in your favor. Add in the injuries and it's an incredibly difficult situation. IMO the team will get back on track now that they (presumably) will have more normal practice opportunities. At the end of the day they only have 2 more losses than the Bills, and those Bills are now about to play KC on a short week. Do you think they'll win that one? I would guess no, which means they only have 1 fewer loss than NE overall. Miami is 3-3, and the Jets are a total dumpster fire whom the Pats have yet to play. (Bills & Fins have each played NYJ once)

To quote Bill, it is what it is. It's not like they are 0-6. Winning the division definitely still in reach. Plus, two of the three current wild card teams in the AFC (Cleveland and Indy) each have 2 losses themselves so a WC chance is also certainly achievable. Let's see how it goes.

Thank you for the write-up Ken - I was only able to see highlights due to my sister's wedding being this past weekend. I always appreciate your insight.
 

everlong

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
My only takeaway was that 3 weeks of very limited practice caught up to this team. They looked so rusty on both sides of the ball.

On offense there was no timing and the OL cohesion was really lacking.

On defense the front didn't play together leaving open massive gaps in the run game. In the passing game they played fairly well in man but didn't pass over responsibilities nearly as well as possible.

I really don't think this game has a huge bearing on how they'll play the rest of the season assuming, and it's a rather large one, that they get covid under control and can practice on a regular basis. I think the lack of practice while it affects everybody effects the Patriots more because the game plan is so different week to week. A team like Seattle that does what it does won't show as much of an effect. I think the Patriots did go more generic to account for this but that also helps a guy like Lock.
 

tasmlab

Starting QB, won 20 SBs, number is retired
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The only good offensive drive was when Cam decided to just play the whole offense by himself.

Probably the worst the Pats have looked in two decades, or at least it's up there.
 

luuked

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On defense the front didn't play together leaving open massive gaps in the run game. In the passing game they played fairly well in man but didn't pass over responsibilities nearly as well as possible.

What goes under a bit is that we were missing two key interior players in Cowart (against the run) and Butler (interior rush) which just made things easier for the Broncos when it came to controlling the trenches and therefore the run.

While the popular thing is to look for WR trades I would be more excited about some transactions at DT.
 
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